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Old 11-21-2013, 04:05 PM    (permalink
comahan
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Marion has been a top perimeter defender for a decade. Talk about massively underrated players.

Also, ignoring the fact that you could watch Wallace and tell how amazing a defender he was, his defensive rating and defensive win share numbers are off the charts. In 03-04, he put up a 9.08 defensive win share, the biggest number EVER for a player not named Russell or Wilt, whose numbers are really hard to judge/compare because their era was so different. Paul George led the league last year with a 6.28 win share, which was almost a full win more than 2nd place (M.Gasol). Since Wallace's season in 03-04, Dwight Howard has come closest to him, putting up a 7.68 in 2010-11 when he was at his peak in Orlando. Wallace put up 7~ defensive win shares on a regular basis in his prime. Going backwards, you have to go to Ewing in 92-93 and Hakeem in 89-90 to find anyone who broke the 8.0 barrier. Before them, it hadnt happened since Elvin Hayes in 74-75. And still, those guys come up short of Ben at his peak, and hover around the average DWS number Ben put up year to year in his prime.
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:20 PM    (permalink
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I'm not a big fan of defensive metrics yet. Has too much to do with team defense right now, though big men seem to be the closest to passing the eye test at the moment.
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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I wasnt at first, but when you look through a list and the rankings for every year make sense based off of what you see on the court, I tend to start putting more stock in them than if they just seemed random. And going through DWS year by year, it equates almost perfectly to my perception of guys' defense before I saw the stat. So I use it. ^_^
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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Plenty of bigs were better man defenders than Ben Wallace was. Rasheed handled all the sizeable guys which allowed Ben to go crazy on the weak side. His numbers were outstanding but that team as a whole defensively was elite. I'll take guys like Ewing, Zo, Shaq, Duncan and Garnett easily over him if I was starting a defensive unit from scratch. I think his numbers were as impressive as they were due to the fact that everyone on that team was pretty damn good on defense. And again, Sheed was still a hell of a defender during that stretch.
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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The Rockets had arguably the greatest modern big man defender (Hakeem) and perimeter defender (Pippen) on the same team in 99. Shame they were both washed up by that point. Also, Charles Barkley was on that team. They were like... the Nets, but with 3 players on the level of Garnett historically.

Also, there was a lockout that year, then Pippen was traded afterward because no one could stand him. The package Houston got in return? Kelvin Cato, Stacey Augmon, Walt Williams, Ed Gray, Brian Shaw and Carlos Rogers. Fun times.
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Old 11-21-2013, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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That team was the first team that broke my heart as a kid. I cried for hours after John Stockton hit that three with a second-late Barkley trying to rotate over. Now I'm sad.
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Old 11-21-2013, 05:52 PM    (permalink
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That was 2 years earlier in 97, but yea, **** John Stockton for that moment. It ruined my childhood as well. The idea of a Hakeem/Barkley/Drexler vs Jordan/Pippen/Rodman finals is still something that I wish had happened. I mean, the Bulls would have probably crushed the Rockets in 97, but its still one of the big dream matches ever. The team that won the titles when Jordan was gone, led by the guy who was regarded as the best in the game in his absence in Hakeem, against Jordan after he'd come back and led Chicago to the greatest season of all time the year prior.

God dammit John Stockton.
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Old 11-21-2013, 07:55 PM    (permalink
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You wanna know pain?! Game 7 in 94 vs the Rockets. John Starks. THAT'S PAIN!!!!!!

</3
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Old 11-21-2013, 07:59 PM    (permalink
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You wanna know pain?! Losing in the finals and then winning back to back ships in the following years.

I think I'm doing it wrong.
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Old 11-21-2013, 08:06 PM    (permalink
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"He who learns must suffer
And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget
Falls drop by drop upon the heart,
And in our own despair, against our will,
Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God."

--Some Cavs fan or something, I don't know.
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Old 11-21-2013, 08:12 PM    (permalink
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You wanna know pain?! Game 7 in 94 vs the Rockets. John Starks. THAT'S PAIN!!!!!!

</3
Yea :/

But ahh, the series of Hakeem domination. 26.9 pts, 9.1 reb, 3.6 ast, 1.6 stl, 3.9 blks per night, while holding Ewing to 36% shooting over 7 games.
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:08 PM    (permalink
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Yea :/

But ahh, the series of Hakeem domination. 26.9 pts, 9.1 reb, 3.6 ast, 1.6 stl, 3.9 blks per night, while holding Ewing to 36% shooting over 7 games.
Game 7 hurt so bad. I still hate that Ewing never had that second scorer in his prime.
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:13 PM    (permalink
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Game 7 hurt so bad. I still hate that Ewing never had that second scorer in his prime.
At least the Rangers won
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Old 11-21-2013, 11:05 PM    (permalink
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The Bucks are so ******* irrelevant.
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Old 11-21-2013, 11:10 PM    (permalink
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The Bucks are so ******* irrelevant.
Back in college I used to see a ton of Knicks - Bucks games. Some of the only decently priced tickets. Back when the Knicks sucked (insert 'they still do' joke here), you could score seats for ~$20 versus crappy teams.
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Old 11-21-2013, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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Back when the Knicks sucked
THEY STILL SUCK BROi
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Old 11-21-2013, 11:28 PM    (permalink
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Faried is so ferocious
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Old 11-22-2013, 12:02 AM    (permalink
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What does IT get on the open market if he's a free agent? $8 per?
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Old 11-22-2013, 12:08 AM    (permalink
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What does IT get on the open market if he's a free agent? $8 per?
If he keeps this up the entire year, he'd probably get 10. I mean, J'rue got 11.
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Old 11-22-2013, 12:18 AM    (permalink
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so far a lot of peoples playoff predictions aren't looking too good
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Old 11-22-2013, 12:34 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by draftguru151 View Post
You wanna know pain?! Losing in the finals and then winning back to back ships in the following years.

I think I'm doing it wrong.
I'm going to enjoy seeing how empty that arena becomes after lebron's contract ends and he leaves the heat to go win some rings somewhere else.

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"He who learns must suffer
And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget
Falls drop by drop upon the heart,
And in our own despair, against our will,
Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God."

--Some Cavs fan or something, I don't know.
Sounds like a sucker.
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We've already seen that your love is only capable of destroying.
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Old 11-22-2013, 04:16 AM    (permalink
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Game 7 hurt so bad. I still hate that Ewing never had that second scorer in his prime.
What about Charles Smith?

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Old 11-22-2013, 07:23 AM    (permalink
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The Bucks are so ******* irrelevant.
Bucks series wins since 2000: 2
Knicks series wins since 2000: 1
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Old 11-22-2013, 09:07 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by dabears10 View Post
What about Charles Smith?

This was the single worst moment in sports history.

And you assholes fouled the **** out of him too. **** the Bulls. I hate them forever.
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Old 11-22-2013, 09:07 AM    (permalink
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Tom Haverford
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Posts: 29,447
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bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
Bucks series wins since 2000: 2
Knicks series wins since 2000: 1
How many championships did the Bucks win?
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