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View Poll Results: Is Channing Frye the most influential NBA PLAYER EVER?
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:18 PM    (permalink
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Love had 25/11 and it was like, a down night for him.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by The Alex View Post
Nicolas Batum ahead of Steph Curry and Dwight Howard is not some things, it's an enormous thing and something so stupid it ruins the credibility of everything else they have to say.
It's their metric, which is pretty much entirely based on offensive and defensive efficiency. It's an interesting list. You can make fun of how their metrics work out, but the way players are currently judged is pretty arbitrary and advanced basketball stats are in their infancy right now.

I just posted it for S's & G's. I'd be more interested to see how it turns out after a full year rather than not even half.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Brody, advanced stats could tell you that your ***** fell off and you would believe it without even checking.
I can't figure out advanced hockey stats, so that is incorrect. They are still faulty, but this is pretty damn close to the best we have.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by yo123 View Post
And they use it in a way that clearly doesn't work. It's not as if this is secret information that is only available to them, other people have it and use it in an effective way instead of packaging it into some kind of ridiculous stat that ranks Martell Webster as the 18th best player in the league.
Hollinger builds PER to match what he already thinks. He, admittedly, makes the stats work to his subjective opinion. Boxscore Geeks does not. Their metrics for projecting wins has actually been very accurate (although their projections for the Blazers in 13-14 just looked completely, impossibly wrong). A third of the season is a small sample size. We'll see how it looks after a full season.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:46 PM    (permalink
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Offensive and defensive efficiency is a good tool, but it is not all-inclusive. Efficiency is like OBP, it tells part of the story but not the whole story. Not in the least.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by nepg View Post
Hollinger builds PER to match what he already thinks. He, admittedly, makes the stats work to his subjective opinion. Boxscore Geeks does not. Their metrics for projecting wins has actually been very accurate. A third of the season is a small sample size. We'll see how it looks after a full season.
The best stats don't just tell the truth of what has happened in the past, but they can be used as correlative evidence for what will happen in the future.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by nepg View Post
It's their metric, which is pretty much entirely based on offensive and defensive efficiency. It's an interesting list. You can make fun of how their metrics work out, but the way players are currently judged is pretty arbitrary and advanced basketball stats are in their infancy right now.

I just posted it for S's & G's. I'd be more interested to see how it turns out after a full year rather than not even half.
That's not entirely true, there are a number of stats that factor in. High rebound guys and low turnover guys do very well in the stat, which isn't really wrong.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:54 PM    (permalink
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#AStormIsComing
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Old 12-27-2013, 10:43 PM    (permalink
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bobcats gonna **** around and get the 3 seed now that horford is out.
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Old 12-27-2013, 11:01 PM    (permalink
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#AStormIsComing
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Old 12-27-2013, 11:19 PM    (permalink
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It's not that simple, and they aren't a million arbitrary stats. The only difference is the weight of rebounds, and they do put it a tad too high, but it's still an effective stat nonetheless. And just because Jordan Hill is having a good 25 game burst, it doesn't mean he deserves a max contract. Maybe it's as simple as giving him more playing time to allow him to produce results. It's the same thing with Jeremy Evans, or Reggie Evans before last year (ignoring that he looks like dogshit this year).



It killed the Pacers? The team that barely lost to the eventual NBA champions because the best player in the world was on the other side? Hill works because they don't need a guy to run the offense constantly. Stephenson and George are both very good at rolling with the ball and having guys play off of them, so Hill works with those two in an effective way. And again, having a PG who can play D, shoot threes and limit turnovers is very big. He's a very good PG on a great team for him.

Would they kill for Paul or Steph Curry? Sure, but since they have no shot at those two, they're perfectly fine.
We had this discussion during the playoffs. There were times where they went on absurd droughts and had ZERO ball movement. Hill couldn't make a play when they needed. He's a good player but needs to make things happen more as a point guard
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 12-27-2013, 11:20 PM    (permalink
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I can't figure out advanced hockey stats, so that is incorrect. They are still faulty, but this is pretty damn close to the best we have.
No. The best things we have are our eyes. Eff advanced stats
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 12-27-2013, 11:34 PM    (permalink
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This isn't baseball #stats
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Old 12-27-2013, 11:37 PM    (permalink
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but this is pretty damn close to the best we have.
...he said, with no evidence whatsoever.
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Old 12-28-2013, 12:04 AM    (permalink
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That's not entirely true, there are a number of stats that factor in. High rebound guys and low turnover guys do very well in the stat, which isn't really wrong.
Those are factored in and are also related to efficiency.
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Old 12-28-2013, 12:11 AM    (permalink
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The best stats don't just tell the truth of what has happened in the past, but they can be used as correlative evidence for what will happen in the future.
Their projections have done pretty well in predicting overall wins for teams. Just glancing at it, it seems to be a WAR-like level of accuracy. Which is pretty good.

You guys have put me in a position to defend their metrics somewhat against my will because you don't like what their metrics are saying.

The reason Batum rates so high is because while he may be underwhelming us with his (seeming?) lack of positive play, he's not making negative plays, either. With Curry, you get a lot of both. Curry shoots a lot and takes a lot of shots that would be deemed bad for most players to take. He also turns the ball over a lot and isn't good defensively. Their system actually does like Curry better (by like 0.02) so far. He's played 2 less games is why his WP is 0.1 less.
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Old 12-28-2013, 12:11 AM    (permalink
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Mike Scott is about to set the world on fire.
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Old 12-28-2013, 12:20 AM    (permalink
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The Kings should probably trade McLemore. He's never going to overcome his content to not be The Guy when he's surrounded by players who want to be The Guy. And if he's not The Guy, he's pretty useless...
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Old 12-28-2013, 03:33 AM    (permalink
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No. The best things we have are our eyes. Eff advanced stats
Meh, On defense, perhaps, but ignoring advanced stats entirely is just ignorant.
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Old 12-28-2013, 09:36 AM    (permalink
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The Kings should probably trade McLemore. He's never going to overcome his content to not be The Guy when he's surrounded by players who want to be The Guy. And if he's not The Guy, he's pretty useless...
never seemed like he wanted to be the guy at kansas
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Old 12-28-2013, 11:09 AM    (permalink
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never seemed like he wanted to be the guy at kansas
It has to be forced upon him, or he won't do it. He very obviously is capable, but he's basically the Uriah Hall of basketball.
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Old 12-28-2013, 11:12 AM    (permalink
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Meh, On defense, perhaps, but ignoring advanced stats entirely is just ignorant.
Basketball is the closest sport to baseball in being able to use advanced stats to really find market inefficiencies. And I think basketball metrics possibly do a better job than baseball metrics in evaluating defense by the numbers.
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Old 12-28-2013, 11:15 AM    (permalink
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Basketball is the closest sport to baseball in being able to use advanced stats to really find market inefficiencies. And I think basketball metrics possibly do a better job than baseball metrics in evaluating defense by the numbers.
The defensive stats are not bad and definitely have value. However, you still very much have to watch the game to evaluate NBA defense.
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Old 12-28-2013, 11:20 AM    (permalink
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Would anyone give anything up for Bynum? Like anything?
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Old 12-28-2013, 11:27 AM    (permalink
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Would anyone give anything up for Bynum? Like anything?
Jose Juan Barea.
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