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Old 01-14-2014, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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i don't give a **** either way about lebron but Mirza was awesome and then lebron bitched about AK 47 flopping so lebron obviously can't handle our european prowess
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 01-14-2014, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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Not to mention that rule changes have made today's NBA and 90s NBA basketball entirely different games. You can't compare statistics when LeBron can barrel down the lane without handchecking and people get called for flagrants on what would be a papercut in the 90s.

Those Pistons teams would eat LeBron alive.
On the flipside, Michael never had to deal with zone defenses and teams packing the paint against him on a nightly basis like LeBron has. They abandoned the illegal defense rule about 10 years ago (right before LeBron came into the league) and coaches like Thibodeau have his guys flooding the strong side of the court to prevent penetration. That's one of the main reasons why 3 point shooting has gone through the roof in the last few years, and why teams that lean heavily on iso-ball never make it that far. Obviously Michael would still be great, but the point is that this is just as big if not bigger than handchecking, so please stop using that argument.

And scoring was down in the 90s because talent was watered down in a major way. Yes there were about 10 alltime greats, but most of them had no help at all. The 94 finals show that. It was Hakeem and average role players against Ewing and average role players. The fact that Ewing had to deal with John Starks as the clear #2 on that team is a crime. Look at David Robinson, another amazing player who never really had much help at all during his prime. The league now is in the best shape its been in since the late 80s in terms of depth of talent.
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Old 01-14-2014, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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On the flipside, Michael never had to deal with zone defenses and teams packing the paint against him on a nightly basis like LeBron has. They abandoned the illegal defense rule about 10 years ago (right before LeBron came into the league) and coaches like Thibodeau have his guys flooding the strong side of the court to prevent penetration. That's one of the main reasons why 3 point shooting has gone through the roof in the last few years, and why teams that lean heavily on iso-ball never make it that far. Obviously Michael would still be great, but the point is that this is just as big if not bigger than handchecking, so please stop using that argument.

And scoring was down in the 90s because talent was watered down in a major way. Yes there were about 10 alltime greats, but most of them had no help at all. The 94 finals show that. It was Hakeem and average role players against Ewing and average role players. The fact that Ewing had to deal with John Starks as the clear #2 on that team is a crime. Look at David Robinson, another amazing player who never really had much help at all during his prime. The league now is in the best shape its been in since the late 80s in terms of depth of talent.
Eh, honestly too much is made out of the whole zone defense thing. JVG ran zone defense with the Knicks basically his entire time there. There were easy counters to the rule changes, you just had to move your Center up and down every 2 seconds to prevent the whistle from getting blown. Jordan saw plenty of loaded boxes, even though it was "illegal", there were ways to do it and many teams did. I'd argue that zone defense is awful to begin with and greats like Jordan and LeBron do better vs a zone than great man defense but that's an argument for a different day.

I think arguing depth is difficult to do from era to era. It's a different game. I can make the argument that the back to the basket brand of basketball and the skills required to play that way are a lost art in today's game. The hook shot is dead. The dominant big man era of the 90s also greatly impacted the way the game was played.

And scoring off the bench and role players of the old generation were effected by hand checking quite a bit. The physicality of the game was much more intense, that also effected the quality of the game.

I think today's game has the rules just right. And the 3 ball and it's ability to space the floor is something that was not readily understood in the 90s. Today's game is the right blend of offense and defense. The 80s were too offense dominant, the 90s were too defense dominant, this generation is just right.

I do miss the lost art of the post game though. Which is why I love when I see a team like the Pacers. The Pacers are basically a 90s team playing in today's era of basketball. And to me personally, it's no surprise that a team that uses that philosophy and make is the best team in the league this year.

I know the game has evolved and perhaps my basketball ideals are dated, but I firmly believe that the blueprint to winning basketball games are hard nosed defense, rebounding, blocking shots, and a post game complimented by a wing/guard who can score and create his own shot.

If you have that, you are a championship caliber team. If you can defend, you can rebound and get second chance points, that alone will make you competitive. Add in a post presence that stimulates ball movement and a wing/guard who can take advantage of that ball movement and can score in iso on his own when that movement breaks down, and you'll compete for a championship all the time.
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Old 01-14-2014, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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Jordan never had to face AK 47 or mirza
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 01-14-2014, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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Jordan never had to face AK 47 or mirza
Both Jordan and AK47 were in the league from 2001-2003. Although those were Jordan's worst years, which is clearly a direct result of the two times the Wizards played Utah a year.
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Old 01-14-2014, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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Well, if you are referring to the best perimeter defenders of that era, then Jordan would either have to face himself or Pippen.
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Old 01-14-2014, 03:21 PM    (permalink
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Or Gary Payton, who did a hell of a job on Jordan in the 96 finals, holding him to 36% shooting in the 3 games he guarded him (games 4, 5, and 6).
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Old 01-14-2014, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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The Glove! Best nickname
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Old 01-14-2014, 04:36 PM    (permalink
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Well, if you are referring to the best perimeter defenders of that era, then Jordan would either have to face himself or Pippen.
Mitch Richmond was 2nd only to Jordan as a perimeter defender in the 90s.
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Old 01-14-2014, 05:20 PM    (permalink
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Old 01-14-2014, 05:58 PM    (permalink
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The Glove! Best nickname
Couldn't agree more, definitely my favorite sports nickname.
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Old 01-14-2014, 06:13 PM    (permalink
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Payton's my favorite athlete of all time.
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Old 01-14-2014, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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Cavs are a bad fit for him. He's too talented to stay that bad.

Really makes you wonder about these SF/PF tweeners though. Is Aaron Gordon next?
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Old 01-14-2014, 06:17 PM    (permalink
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Couldn't agree more, definitely my favorite sports nickname.
Better than the Round Mound of Rebound??? LOL
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Old 01-14-2014, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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Better than the Round Mound of Rebound??? LOL
I value a concise, yet telling nickname.
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Old 01-14-2014, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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Mitch Richmond was 2nd only to Jordan as a perimeter defender in the 90s.
Pippen was a better defender than MJ, so you already struck out here.
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Old 01-14-2014, 06:22 PM    (permalink
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Cavs are a bad fit for him. He's too talented to stay that bad.

Really makes you wonder about these SF/PF tweeners though. Is Aaron Gordon next?
Not really. He's an incredibly awful player. Like, he can do absolutely nothing even remotely well. He can't pass, he turns the ball over a lot, he's unbelievably bad on offense, he contributes nothing on defense...he's an okay rebounder, but that's all he has.
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Old 01-14-2014, 07:00 PM    (permalink
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Gordon is Derrick Williams
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Old 01-14-2014, 07:09 PM    (permalink
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It's pretty depressing **** but to name more worthless players than Bennett is rather difficult. Actually, it isn't possible.

Worst selection ever and ultimately it's probably going to cost Grant his job and rightfully so.
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Old 01-14-2014, 07:18 PM    (permalink
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Could you also blame Mike Brown for not getting on his ass for being completely worthless? It's sad to see how unmotivated and useless he's been this season, trade him for a pack of stride gum and you'll come out on top.
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Old 01-14-2014, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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Gordon is Derrick Williams
not sure why so many were comparing him to Griffin before the year. He hasn't really impressed me at all.
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Old 01-14-2014, 07:32 PM    (permalink
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There are many variables to the equation: his injury which caused 5 months of inactivity, his inability to overcome poor conditioning, etc. he looks so ******* lost it's surreal -- absolutely clueless like every time he comes in a game it's his first time touching a basketball.

Each appearance looks worse than the last. Sure, Brown isn't exactly known for player development but this is next level incompetence. He's historically worthless. There's no defending it, at all.

The most pathetic part is the Cavs board I'm involved with and they're mostly convinced it's just psychological and he can get over it and I got attacked for saying he flat out sucks and we blew it.
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Old 01-14-2014, 07:35 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
Not really. He's an incredibly awful player. Like, he can do absolutely nothing even remotely well. He can't pass, he turns the ball over a lot, he's unbelievably bad on offense, he contributes nothing on defense...he's an okay rebounder, but that's all he has.
He's big, fast, can shoot with range or on a fade away, excellent dribbler and can rebound decently. In a 1 on 1 competition he would excel greatly. I don't know what's going on in CLE but I think his game is being affected by his emotions/frustrations related to his fit on the team and the expectations that come from being the #1 pick. What #1 pick rides the pine?

Sure he was the surprise #1 pick in a draft that lacked elite talent, but he's being labeled way too early. Has anyone seen what Otto Porter has been doing in Washington? Can I say OUCH? That was the other candidate to be taken by the Cavs. They weren't taking Noel because of the injury and them wanting to make a turn around right away. Dipo and BMac would conflict with Waiters.
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Old 01-14-2014, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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He's big, fast, can shoot with range or on a fade away, excellent dribbler and can rebound decently. In a 1 on 1 competition he would excel greatly. I don't know what's going on in CLE but I think his game is being affected by his emotions/frustrations related to his fit on the team and the expectations that come from being the #1 pick. What #1 pick rides the pine?

Sure he was the surprise #1 pick in a draft that lacked elite talent, but he's being labeled way too early. Has anyone seen what Otto Porter has been doing in Washington? Can I say OUCH? That was the other candidate to be taken by the Cavs. They weren't taking Noel because of the injury and them wanting to make a turn around right away. Dipo and BMac would conflict with Waiters.
He's fast?! When the **** did this happen?
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Old 01-14-2014, 07:45 PM    (permalink
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He's fast?! When the **** did this happen?
He has handles that allow him to blow by his opponents. Don't confuse that with a blazing 40 time. He's not that kind of fast.
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