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Old 11-23-2007, 11:40 AM    (permalink
Ravens1991
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what was this guy thinking just turning away to walk back in the car? Yes the tazer was to much but you dont do that to a cop unless the conversation is over.
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Old 11-23-2007, 11:42 AM    (permalink
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Well, the biggest problem is that the cop never explained to him that signing a ticket is not a compliance of guilt, it's just saying you will appear in court. It's very clear that the guy doesn't know that, or he wouldn't have argued as much. It was also clearly a blind ticket, with no radar, and you are within your rights to ask to see the radar gun.

The guy was a little over-zealous, but that cap was INCREDIBLY poorly trained, and it is HIS responsibility and JOB, not the citizen's, to handle the situation responsibly.
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Old 11-23-2007, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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Well, the biggest problem is that the cop never explained to him that signing a ticket is not a compliance of guilt, it's just saying you will appear in court. It's very clear that the guy doesn't know that, or he wouldn't have argued as much. It was also clearly a blind ticket, with no radar, and you are within your rights to ask to see the radar gun.

The guy was a little over-zealous, but that cap was INCREDIBLY poorly trained, and it is HIS responsibility and JOB, not the citizen's, to handle the situation responsibly.
Wow, we agree on something. Will wonders never cease.

I just don't see how using potential lethal force on somebody is justified in this case. What would the cop do before tazers? I can guarantee you he's not drawing his gun and firing a few rounds in this guy's back.
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Old 11-23-2007, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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Well, the biggest problem is that the cop never explained to him that signing a ticket is not a compliance of guilt, it's just saying you will appear in court. It's very clear that the guy doesn't know that, or he wouldn't have argued as much. It was also clearly a blind ticket, with no radar, and you are within your rights to ask to see the radar gun.

The guy was a little over-zealous, but that cap was INCREDIBLY poorly trained, and it is HIS responsibility and JOB, not the citizen's, to handle the situation responsibly.
a radar gun is not required for a speeding citation to be issued. A cop's estimation of speed is considered as accurate in the court of law as a radar gun. I found this out the hard way when trying to dispute my excessive speeding ticket. I looked down as was doing less than 20 over the speed limit like 61 in a 45 and the officer estimated I was doing 65 +. The judge ruled in favor of the officer and I was cited for speeding in excess.
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Old 11-23-2007, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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That guy was not showing signs of aggression towards the officer. He did nothing to make me believe that he would have physically assaulted the officer.

Tazing somebody can be lethal. It happens all the time.
If even the guy thought it was the right thing to do, how can you say it was wrong? Tazing is generally safer for all involved than physically restraining. He was flailing his arms around, and refusing to obey the officers command. The video also didn't show what happened before to cause him to get thrown out. He was being very disruptive and made what could be perceived as a threatening motion towards Kerry. The police were entirely justified at UF, here, the cop was just on a power trip.
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Old 11-23-2007, 11:57 AM    (permalink
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It was also clearly a blind ticket, with no radar, and you are within your rights to ask to see the radar gun.
I know that isn't the case in TX, so I am guessing it is the same elsewhere.
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Old 11-23-2007, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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If even the guy thought it was the right thing to do, how can you say it was wrong? Tazing is generally safer for all involved than physically restraining. He was flailing his arms around, and refusing to obey the officers command. The video also didn't show what happened before to cause him to get thrown out. He was being very disruptive and made what could be perceived as a threatening motion towards Kerry. The police were entirely justified at UF, here, the cop was just on a power trip.
I'm talking about this case, not the UF case.

There is no possible argument for saying that restraining somebody physically is safer than tazing them. People DIE from tazers all the time. Sure, if the person resists (which is difficult, trust me) people might end up with a couple scrapes and bruises, maybe a broken arm or something even. Tazing is worse. First, you fall directly onto the ground without protecting your body. Then, you risk dying from having all that electricity pumped through you. But yeah, having a cop or two tackle you to the ground is much worse.
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Old 11-23-2007, 11:59 AM    (permalink
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I know that isn't the case in TX, so I am guessing it is the same elsewhere.
You can definitely ask to see the radar gun. In fact, it is recommended.
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Old 11-23-2007, 12:01 PM    (permalink
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when most people comply they step out of the vehicle slowly, they dont jog over to a cop who has his back turned waiving their arms in the air. I said the tazer was a bit much, but he did put the cop in a comprimising position with his actions, and just go up to your pics, when the guy is turning away his hand is about to go in his pocket, the cop doesn't know if he has a gun or what. His wife's pregnancy has nothin to do with anything, it just something brought up to try and tug some heart strings, neither the idiot or his wife were acting rationally. Why couldn't of the guy just said thank you sir and disputed the ticket in court? Instead he tries for a little moral victory and got himself tazed.
Usually I am on the side of the cops. But this cop was just reckless and on a power trip. Using a tazer so close to the highway is just stupid. What if he fell into oncoming traffic? He was not resisting arrest. He did nothing threatening. We see the entire video on this one, the cop was entirely out of line. It is for episodes like this that people distrust cops.
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Old 11-23-2007, 12:01 PM    (permalink
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You can definitely ask to see the radar gun. In fact, it is recommended.
I know in TX they do not have to show you. My friend asked one time, they wouldn't show him, so we went home and looked it up, it isn't required the cops show you.
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Old 11-23-2007, 12:04 PM    (permalink
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I'm talking about this case, not the UF case.

There is no possible argument for saying that restraining somebody physically is safer than tazing them. People DIE from tazers all the time. Sure, if the person resists (which is difficult, trust me) people might end up with a couple scrapes and bruises, maybe a broken arm or something even. Tazing is worse. First, you fall directly onto the ground without protecting your body. Then, you risk dying from having all that electricity pumped through you. But yeah, having a cop or two tackle you to the ground is much worse.
I completely agree with you in this case, I only brought up the UF case because of the people saying, "Don't tase me, bro." Because comparing this to the UF case doesn't do this case justice.
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Old 11-23-2007, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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You can definitely ask to see the radar gun. In fact, it is recommended.
again, a radar gun does not need to be used in order for a citation for speeding to be issued, so this is pointless to even fight over with an officer.
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Old 11-23-2007, 12:11 PM    (permalink
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Usually I am on the side of the cops. But this cop was just reckless and on a power trip. Using a tazer so close to the highway is just stupid. What if he fell into oncoming traffic? He was not resisting arrest. He did nothing threatening. We see the entire video on this one, the cop was entirely out of line. It is for episodes like this that people distrust cops.
The cop made a bad judgement call and I said that, but the guy was being erratic, especially that frickin run he made towards the cop with arms raised that caused for the officer to be alarmed in the first place, bad bad move on his part. Also turning his back and ignoring the officer and then reaching for the pocket was also a bad move for the guy. Again not justified, but enough to place the cop in a state of alert.
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Old 11-23-2007, 12:13 PM    (permalink
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I know in TX they do not have to show you. My friend asked one time, they wouldn't show him, so we went home and looked it up, it isn't required the cops show you.
It varies from state to state.
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Old 11-23-2007, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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again, a radar gun does not need to be used in order for a citation for speeding to be issued, so this is pointless to even fight over with an officer.
It can help your case...

Ask him to see it. If he didn't use a radar gun, you have a better case in court.
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Old 11-23-2007, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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The cop was in no way justified to use a taser. What a n00b. ******* cop won't even read him his rights.

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Old 11-23-2007, 12:18 PM    (permalink
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It can help your case...

Ask him to see it. If he didn't use a radar gun, you have a better case in court.
again see above where I posted my story about this, a cop's estimation of speed is consdiering as accurate as a radar in court, and that was stated by the judge.
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Old 11-23-2007, 12:18 PM    (permalink
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Actually I said it is within your rights to ask, I didn't say they had to show you. Some states they do, some they don't. (Texas isn't exactly the best model for civil rights)

The problem is that the cop was so incredbly flippant about anyone questioning him (heaven forbid) and seemed eager to use his tazer (even joking about it at some point).

More than anything it confuses me why people are willingly arguing AGAINST civil liberties. America is so ****** up to me sometimes. We brag so much about how free we are but are so willingly to kowtow to authority or accept it without question.
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Old 11-23-2007, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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again see above where I posted my story about this, a cop's estimation of speed is consdiering as accurate as a radar in court, and that was stated by the judge.
This is one personal case.
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Old 11-23-2007, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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Actually I said it is within your rights to ask, I didn't say they had to show you. Some states they do, some they don't. (Texas isn't exactly the best model for civil rights)

The problem is that the cop was so incredbly flippant about anyone questioning him (heaven forbid) and seemed eager to use his tazer (even joking about it at some point).

More than anything it confuses me why people are willingly arguing AGAINST civil liberties. America is so ****** up to me sometimes. We brag so much about how free we are but are so willingly to kowtow to authority or accept it without question .
See youtube link above for the results of questioning an officers authority on scene instead of in court.
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Old 11-23-2007, 12:23 PM    (permalink
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Some cops are just power hungry, loose cannon jerks. Most of them are fine gentlemen, but I know from experience that some are quite corrupt.
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Old 11-23-2007, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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The cop was in no way justified to use a taser. What a n00b. ******* cop won't even read him his rights.
At that time, he didn't need to read him his rights. He was not going to interrogate him in any way shape or form. He will have been read his rights before he is asked questions, if he isn't he would be set free.
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Old 11-23-2007, 12:28 PM    (permalink
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Here is why the cop was not justified in using his taser, and why they were in the UF case

* Level 1 - Officer Presence
* Level 2 - Verbal Direction and Commands
* Level 3 - Physical Control (pain compliance, take down, OC spray)
* Level 4 - Intermediate Weapons (baton, asp, Taser)
* Level 5 - Incapacitating Control (strike to major nerve area)
* Level 6 - Deadly Force (firearm, strikes with or without weapon to spine, throat, eyes, or groin)
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Old 11-23-2007, 12:33 PM    (permalink
someone447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Actually I said it is within your rights to ask, I didn't say they had to show you. Some states they do, some they don't. (Texas isn't exactly the best model for civil rights)

The problem is that the cop was so incredbly flippant about anyone questioning him (heaven forbid) and seemed eager to use his tazer (even joking about it at some point).

More than anything it confuses me why people are willingly arguing AGAINST civil liberties. America is so ****** up to me sometimes. We brag so much about how free we are but are so willingly to kowtow to authority or accept it without question.
I've actually never heard of a state where they have to show you, people always say in some states they have to, but they never specify which ones. That makes it sound like an urban legend to me.

We don't truly have freedom, most people are too stupid to allow the population at large to have freedom. Just look at this guy: http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Shocki...next_1116.html
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Old 11-23-2007, 12:39 PM    (permalink
Moses
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubNoize View Post
See youtube link above for the results of questioning an officers authority on scene instead of in court.
Exactly why as a society America should be outraged by this event.
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