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Old 11-23-2007, 12:40 PM    (permalink
Moses
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Originally Posted by someone447 View Post
I've actually never heard of a state where they have to show you, people always say in some states they have to, but they never specify which ones. That makes it sound like an urban legend to me.

We don't truly have freedom, most people are too stupid to allow the population at large to have freedom. Just look at this guy: http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Shocki...next_1116.html
http://law.freeadvice.com/general_pr...ding_radar.htm

That's one URL I found with a quick search.
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Old 11-23-2007, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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People get outraged by cops so much in America and yes they do go above their authority sometimes, but the reason we get outraged when we see it is because of the relative scarcity of the event. Look at other third world countries and see how bad their law enforcement policies are. Either the police is bribed to keep quiet or you might have to bribe them to get out of jail. Yes he was out of line, but does it happen as often as we choose to believe? No.
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Old 11-23-2007, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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Exactly why as a society America should be outraged by this event.
I'm not outraged because it wasn't an unprevoked event, had the guy been drug from his vehicle and tazed I'd feel outraged, but when the guy acts like such an idiot and provokes the officer like he did, I have no problem with the guy being taken down. Too many people want to exercise their "civil liberties" at the wrong time. If you have an issue protest it in court, don't make an ass of yourself and bumrush a cop on the interstate and then play the victim with a pregnant wife card. This guy could have just as easily taken the ticket, gone to court and called BS and let the judge decide, but americans always have to take justice into their own hands, and he paid for it.
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Old 11-23-2007, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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I'm not outraged because it wasn't an unprevoked event, had the guy been drug from his vehicle and tazed I'd feel outraged, but when the guy acts like such an idiot and provokes the officer like he did, I have no problem with the guy being taken down. Too many people want to exercise their "civil liberties" at the wrong time. If you have an issue protest it in court, don't make an ass of yourself and bumrush a cop on the interstate and then play the victim with a pregnant wife card. This guy could have just as easily taken the ticket, gone to court and called BS and let the judge decide, but americans always have to take justice into their own hands, and he paid for it.
Right, arguing with a cop should definitely result in having near lethal force applied to you.

Many people seem to have forgotten this, but individual rights and freedoms are the cornerstone of Western Civilization. Every case like this is a blatant example of Americans willingness to sacrifice said freedoms. Sad, but true.
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Old 11-23-2007, 01:00 PM    (permalink
SubNoize
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Right, arguing with a cop should definitely result in having near lethal force applied to you.

Many people seem to have forgotten this, but individual rights and freedoms are the cornerstone of Western Civilization. Every case like this is a blatant example of Americans willingness to sacrifice said freedoms. Sad, but true.
arguing is fine, being asked to step out of the car and then proceeding to jog towards the cop with arms flying is different. You're acting as if this guy calmly and methodically approached the officer and then proceeded to have a dignified debate with him. The guy got out screaming with arms a blazing and completely made an ass of himself because he thought he could get away with it. Again, debate in court not in a hostile environment where many officers have been injured or killed, or at least stay calm and not make things worse. Why do people have to give cops such a crappy attitude before the officer even opens his mouth? I know why, because as a society we play cops up as hardcore bad ass murderers with a hard on for a gun fight because it makes good news, and we downplay their protection of our communities. Funny how we like to avoid police and degrade them, but when we're in trouble what's the first number we dial?
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Old 11-23-2007, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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Obviously the guy is dumb for turning his back and walking toward the car after the cop told him to turn around and put his hands on his head...but the fact that the cop pulled the tazer immediately for no reason and unnecessarily used it is the problem...if you watch the CNN link where it interviews the guy, he explains that the cop refused to tell him how fast he was going and tried explaining that he was not yet in the 40 MPH speed zone, and that he thought when he got out that the cop was going to show him the sign, etc. so when he pulled the tazer he was shocked and didn't know what to do...dumb, yes, but in no way was there a reason to use it, he could have walked up to the guy and told him to come back or grabbed his arms to turn him around and put him in cuffs

whoever said he's a dumba$$ for getting outta the car and jogging at a cop with his back turned, or had his hands in his pockets, was threatening, you obviously are blind or are too dysfunctional to use youtube
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Old 11-23-2007, 01:15 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SubNoize View Post
arguing is fine, being asked to step out of the car and then proceeding to jog towards the cop with arms flying is different. You're acting as if this guy calmly and methodically approached the officer and then proceeded to have a dignified debate with him. The guy got out screaming with arms a blazing and completely made an ass of himself because he thought he could get away with it. Again, debate in court not in a hostile environment where many officers have been injured or killed, or at least stay calm and not make things worse. Why do people have to give cops such a crappy attitude before the officer even opens his mouth? I know why, because as a society we play cops up as hardcore bad ass murderers with a hard on for a gun fight because it makes good news, and we downplay their protection of our communities. Funny how we like to avoid police and degrade them, but when we're in trouble what's the first number we dial?
did you even watch the video? I agree, he shouldn't be arguing with the officer that he should argue in court, but where did you see him jog toward the cops with arms flying? He got out of the car, as asked, and walked toward the cop, with ONE arm in the air pointing to where he thought the speed limit sign was, trying to explain he wasn't speeding because that he was getting out to show the cop...again, if you watched the interview, he explained what was going through his head
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Old 11-23-2007, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by iowatreat54 View Post

whoever said he's a dumba$$ for getting outta the car and jogging at a cop with his back turned, or had his hands in his pockets, was threatening, you obviously are blind or are too dysfunctional to use youtube
That was me and many others, I beleive that you may not have sight there buddy because the guy comes barreling out of his car with his arms raised and with the cop turned backwards. The cop then truns around with his tazer in hand because he didn't know what the guy was trying to do just yet. The officer then sees the man is unarmed, but asks him to put his hand up because the guy has his hands at his side and they look to be going into his pockets because his thumb is is already in, the guy keeps talking and walking away and then he gets tazered.
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Old 11-23-2007, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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That was me and many others, I beleive that you may not have sight there buddy because the guy comes barreling out of his car with his arms raised and with the cop turned backwards. The cop then truns around with his tazer in hand because he didn't know what the guy was trying to do just yet. The officer then sees the man is unarmed, but asks him to put his hand up because the guy has his hands at his side and they look to be going into his pockets because his thumb is is already in, the guy keeps talking and walking away and then he gets tazered.
I agree the guy is an idiot for turning his back and trying to walk back to his car, and I agree now seeing the cop with his back turned he didn't know the guy was so close behind him, but where in that whole video do you see him jogging/barreling out of the car with arms raised? He got out and walked, maybe at a little bit of a quick pace, but WALKED toward the cop, with ONE ARM pointing at a sign and the thumb of his right hand in his pocket...I'm not disagreeing that the guy in general wasn't making the best decisions or that he should have either calmly tried to talk to the cop or took it up in court, but I am arguing that he never came running outta the car, arms flailing and screaming as you suggested
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Old 11-23-2007, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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I agree the guy is an idiot for turning his back and trying to walk back to his car, and I agree now seeing the cop with his back turned he didn't know the guy was so close behind him, but where in that whole video do you see him jogging/barreling out of the car with arms raised? He got out and walked, maybe at a little bit of a quick pace, but WALKED toward the cop, with ONE ARM pointing at a sign and the thumb of his right hand in his pocket...I'm not disagreeing that the guy in general wasn't making the best decisions or that he should have either calmly tried to talk to the cop or took it up in court, but I am arguing that he never came running outta the car, arms flailing and screaming as you suggested
he comes out pretty fast with his arm raised, he's says pointing at the sign, but the cop was turned away from him so out of side vision it could have been perceived as him holding a gun. He def. did not calmly as smoothly walk over, he jumped out and came up behind the cop in a hurry. Again I don't think he should have been tazered, but his actions did not help his defenseless story at all.
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Old 11-23-2007, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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he comes out pretty fast with his arm raised, he's says pointing at the sign, but the cop was turned away from him so out of side vision it could have been perceived as him holding a gun. He def. did not calmly as smoothly walk over, he jumped out and came up behind the cop in a hurry. Again I don't think he should have been tazered, but his actions did not help his defenseless story at all.
Oh I agree that he shouldn't have been tazered as there was better ways to defuse the situation and that the guy was acting like a complete moron, especially after seeing the tazer gun...but I was just saying that he didn't come jumping outta the car like a mad man, but walked up to where the cop was with one arm raised and talking, which most normal people would respond to by talking with the person rather than yelling at them with a tazer pointed at them, but I understand the cop had no idea what to expect

looking at the video again, I don't know how fast the guy was going, but he was in the 40 mph zone so the cop was definitely justified in giving him a ticket. However, the way the cop went about it was completely wrong and seemed like he's never done it before...he refused to tell the guy how fast he was going for no reason, not refused to show him the radar, but refused to tell the guy how fast he was speeding, which is ridiculous...but the guy should have, after realizing the cop wasn't going to show/tell him, taken the ticket and then gone to court...but in no way did any of his actions show that he should have been tazered
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Old 11-23-2007, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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Usually I am on the side of the cops. But this cop was just reckless and on a power trip. Using a tazer so close to the highway is just stupid. What if he fell into oncoming traffic? He was not resisting arrest. He did nothing threatening. We see the entire video on this one, the cop was entirely out of line. It is for episodes like this that people distrust cops.
Okay, so when he tries to restrain him what happens if the guy resists and pushes the cop into oncoming traffic?
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Old 11-23-2007, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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Okay, so when he tries to restrain him what happens if the guy resists and pushes the cop into oncoming traffic?
There were definitely better ways to handle it. I have no problem with him initially pulling the taser. However, he should have explained what was going on. Get the guy away from the road, and attempted to restrain him against the car. If he fights back in any way, then the use of a taser would be justifiable.
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Old 11-23-2007, 03:51 PM    (permalink
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Tazer is a substitute for lethal force. It should only be used in life and death situations in my opinion.
that sir, is not the truth...

the taser is an intermediate weapon used for compliance...it is in no way a substitute for deadly force...

the guy was resisting without violence...the patrolman pulled his taser as a compliance tool...the guy was still non-compliant thus making the patrolman use the taser...

when you refuse to sign the ticket, you are resisting a lawful command without violence...now that was in Utah and I'm a police officer in Gainesville, FL. (and yes I do carry a taser) but the state laws for resisting without violence are not that different state to state...

could have the patrolman told the guy "if you don't sign this you will go to jail..."? Probably, does he have to...no...

law enforcement personnel are trained to use the taser and their agencies have strict policies when and when not to use the taser...now, this video being available on youtube.com tells me that the agency released it to the media and the patrolman was probably reprimanded as a learning tool....

make no mistake...highway patrolmen have one of the most dangerous jobs in the country...they deal with the worst of the worst on a daily basis...they make traffic stops where there are vehicles traveling in excess of 80+ mph...

the patrolman makes some mistakes during the whole course of the video but he was justified in using the taser...
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