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Old 12-28-2007, 08:05 PM    (permalink
lost33cause
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Default Off-Season moves?

Can everyone come up with a list of off-season moves to be done by our team, including draft picks and FA moves.
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Old 12-28-2007, 10:19 PM    (permalink
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well right now, I think JSmith might be cut IF we go DE in the draft.
Its far too soon to know for sure
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Old 12-28-2007, 10:21 PM    (permalink
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Isn't Justin Smith going to be a Free Agent this off-season?
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Old 12-28-2007, 10:31 PM    (permalink
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Ya Smith is a FA, so not really cutable.

DE's Peko, Sedrik, Fanaene, Rucker
NT Dre Moore, Peko
LBers: Brooks, Geathers, Marshall, Jones, Odell, Jeanty, Johnson
CBs: Hall, JJ, Oneal(we need him unfortunatly)
Safeties: Duke Nukem, White, Djax

What do you think of this Defense? Obviously a 3-4, draft sedrick in round 1 and Moore in round 2. Then maybe 2, 3rd round unknown linebackers.
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Old 12-29-2007, 01:34 AM    (permalink
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I do not see 3-4 happening for us. I do not think we have nor could we draft the talent to have an effective 3-4 defense. We do however have the LBs for it but not much else.

But if we are going there why not:

DE: Geathers, Calias Campbell
DT: Peko, Haynesworth via FA if not resigned
LB: Marshall, Odell/Brooks rotate due to inactivity, LJ
CB: Hall, JJ, Foxworth via FA
S: Madieu, Chinny/White

apologies if these guys arent FA's anymore im goin off what i remember
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Old 12-29-2007, 02:09 AM    (permalink
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I think that ideally, the Bengals would grab Dorsey or Ellis in round 1, but the chances of that happening seem slim at the moment. There's still a shot, though. There's a definite need to improve the pass rush, inside and out. LB depth is needed. I imagine that the kids may get a shot at safety, with perhaps a veteran back there to support. All that said, there are some offensive concerns. If Chad Johnson gets moved, it certainly adds another pick, but creates a bigger hole. The OL has some concerns, although draft wise, they are looking for depth. At some point, upgrading TE makes sense.

The draft conundrum is this - what do you do if Gholston/Long/Ellis/Dorsey/Laurinaitis are off the table, which is possible depending on your position. Do you go for a Campbell/Merling at that point? Seems a slight reach. Balmer may be a more amenable idea, since the end depth looks better than the tackle depth, and his value should be close, if not better, than Campbell/Merling.

I'm not sure how much money you guys have to play with. I'd let Smith go. Try and sign an end in FA. Don't have to spend huge money, as you are liable to pick an end anyways. Maybe a gamble on a guy like Tony Hargrove, who looked promising 2 years ago. Maybe a situational pass rusher like Travis LaBoy. Maybe an all around end like Antwan Odom. Bobby McCray might be another idea. I can't imagine those guys costing more than Smith, but I've been way off before.

At DT, I'd try to make a huge splash. Go after Corey Williams. He's gonna be awful costly, though. I like Williams a tad better than Haynesworth. Haynesworth is the better talent, but certainly has some flaws that are disconcerting. With Williams, you seem to get more consistency. If you fail on that front, a Randy Starks or Brian Young may be a worthy gamble.

Ahmad will be back at LB, and in all likelihood, the MIKE spot. I wouldn't go all out on LB. It's a relatively deep depth draft at LB, and good guys can be added later. I'd add some competition, that's for sure. Keeping Landon Johnson would be the preference, but if not, I like a signing like Keyaron Fox. Keeping Caleb Miller would also be good. Maybe a gamble on a Boss Bailey or Teddy Lehman.

At safety, I'd try to sign someone like Chris Crocker or Erik Coleman (and obviously others could fit). Someone that could be good depth and perhaps a decent starter to buy time for a kid. The main thing I'd do is simplify the schemes for the safeties.

I'd look at a veteran OL guy for depth even if you keep your guys. Nothing expensive, one of those dime a dozen capable veteran backups. I'd take a gamble on Ben Troupe at TE. If he fails, oh well. Not as if you were getting much production out of the TE spot. I'd look for a veteran receiver like David Patten to add to the mix.

(FA's based on draftdaddy's list).

Let's say you land

DE Travis LaBoy
DT Corey Williams - top target.
LB Keyaron Fox

and keep

OT Stacey Andrews

Follow that up with say a draft of

1. LB James Laurinaitis, the Ohio State
2. DE Lawrence Jackson, Southern California
3. DT Richard Clebert, South Florida

and hold the line with the WR's (keep them) and 08-09 looks much better. A healthy Rudi, solid OL work, and the offensive should still be explosive. Defensively, a 4-3 with (I've "cut" some veterans)

DE Robert Geathers, Travis LaBoy, Lawrence Jackson, Frostee Rucker, Jonathan Fanene (swing guy)

DT Corey Williams, John Thornton, Domata Peko, Richard Clebert

Starting LB's: James Laurinaitis (I'd place him on the weakside, but I might be the only one that would do that), Ahmad Brooks, and Rashad Jeanty

Backup LB's: Keyaron Fox, Anthony Schlegel, Dhani Jones

And that front 7 looks good. Fairly stout against the run. Improved pass rush out of it's base D. Situational guys able to step in (Clebert/Fanene could be interior pass rusher to go with Williams in pass rushing situations, with LaBoy joining Geathers). If that front 7 is stout, the young secondary talent (Joseph/Hall/Ndukwe/White) will be better protected.

Now, I could think up of other solid scenarios. I think this would be one, though.
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Old 12-29-2007, 03:43 AM    (permalink
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Saying all these guys (Gholston/Long/Ellis/Dorsey/Laurinaitis) will be gone would be quite a stretch if they all declare. Obviously our picks depend entirely on what we do on FA. If we get top tier dt talent in fa and let j Smith go then we do what we can to get the best pass rush DE availible. I really like Gholston and Campbell. I like Gholstons strength and speed and Campbell's height and long arms are something to druel over. Like you said though there are a lot of options. Much to many to discuss until FA signing are over with. From what Peter King says we are 6th in cap space with about 31 mil under the cap and I see us releiving ourselves of dead weight like Rudi and Thornton. Neither of which are worth the cap price. My ideal choice would be to get a top DT in FA, go DE in round 1, and either dt project or LB in round 2.

What I hear about Dorsey is he's the real deal but highly unlikely to fall to us. Ellis is also rumored to be dominating but I hear mixed reports on him. Some say hes undersized and the last thing we need is another undersized DT but I also heard hes even bigger than Dorsey so well see come combine time. Also, to be honest I have no idea whos better between Campbell or Gholston. I really don't know how to judge talent. I hear height and arm length are huge bonus's and cambpell's are amazing and he's much taller and has longer arms than Gholston. But with Gholston you have his work ethic and his pure speed and strength all of which seem better than Campbell's. How would you rate the 4 of these guys.
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Old 12-29-2007, 11:48 PM    (permalink
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I would put Campbell ahead of Gholston. He is a sold pick but Im still not sold on him completely. Not sure if he would be best at DE or 3-4 OLB.
DT wise, Dorsey is number one
According to their respective teams' site, Ellis: 6'2 305 Dorsey: 6'2 303
If all four were available at our pick, I would hope it would be Dorsey all the way.
1. Dorsey
2. Ellis
3. Campbell
4. Gholston
Thats just for us if we stick with the 4-3
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Old 12-30-2007, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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I would hope that our roster is cleared of the following? Willie Anderson, Rudi Johnson, Justin Smith, John Thornton, Bryan Robinson, Madeiu Williams, Dexter Jackson, Chris Henry...and I'm sure I forgot a few. They must resign Andrews, Landon, and bring back Lemar Marshall and Dhanti Jones and then draft in the first 2 rds, a DT/DE or LB. I actually think they will find a way to unload Henry as Marvin has made some bold statements this week about him not doing the preparations needed to be an NFL player. If he stays, then I think the law will be laid down to he, Chad and TJ about their whininess on the field. I love their production. This is the year I want a TE. Just watching Kevin Boss (a 5th rd pick last year) last night play for NYG one was able to see that there is some fine talent in the TE field if you just do your research and draft them. Settling for guys who can't get out of their own way as our TE is ridiculous. Want Red Zone production? Draft a quality TE! I hope Marvin insists on more scouts so things like the losing a young DT like Toeania or even DeDe Dorsey last year don't occur. DeDe Dorsey's loss and our own inability to recognise him as a quality player, forced us to draft Kenny Irons in Rd 2. A 2nd rd choice on a defensive player or even a TE would have been nice last year. Lots to do, hopefully they take some action.
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Old 12-30-2007, 11:55 PM    (permalink
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^^
I agree we need to clean house but if you get rid of all of those players and expect rookies to play in their spots then we will be taking a BIG step backwards. My question is why and the hell would we get rid of Willie Anderson? That's probably the dumbest thing I've heard. He played in some games and had some nagging injuries which weren't his fault. He is the best RT in the nfl still and played in how many games in a row until this year. So is that the rule with you? You miss games in one season and your off the team? I'm glad you don't run this team. Also I think we'll bring M. Williams back and let Dexter go. Williams is the better of the 2 and has upside instead of downside and we do need some veteran leadership back there. If we go into next season with 2 starting 2nd year safeties with no veteran behind them then we are screwed. ALSO, Chris Henry is the most talented 3rd WR in the nfl without hardly trying apprently and we know no one will give up anything to have him b/c of the risk he is. We ride him to actually try and make him bury himself if he does with off the field issues but I hope and believe thats behind him. So with the exception of getting rid of M. Williams, W. Anderson, and C. Henry I agree with the rest. You just can't expect to get rid of all of that vet leadership and bring in anywhere near the same amount in FA. Expect about 2-3 vets in the FA and the rest in the draft.
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Old 12-31-2007, 03:20 AM    (permalink
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i love willie anderson as much as anyone else but i think we should let him go. he is probably going to retire from what i have heard. keeping stacey andrews is a major priority.
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Old 12-31-2007, 05:27 PM    (permalink
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Willie Anderson > Stacey Andrews x2

I won;t throw Willie under the bus for one bad year, not going to happen.

I will throw Thornton, Robinson, Smith, and Rudi under it for multiple bad years though.
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Old 12-31-2007, 10:31 PM    (permalink
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im not throwing willie under the bus. he wasn't bad this year but i think maybe his injuries are starting to catch up with him. I don't think Rudi has had multiple bad years either but idk maybe thats just me. i say we let him get healthy and keep him around next year unless we need more cap room or something. the rest i agree with.
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Old 01-01-2008, 05:25 PM    (permalink
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If it comes down to us getting rid of Willie, I hope he retires as a Bengal instead. I dont know how you can blame Rudi for multiple bad years. 1300+ 1450+ twice and 12TDs those 3 years. He was injured this year. His first year starting he got almost 1000 and before that he wasnt a starter. Thats not something to throw a solid back under the bus for. As good as DeDe and Watson were, they showed they cannot carry the rock for the game. A healthy Rudi is > Watson or Dede.
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Old 01-05-2008, 12:13 PM    (permalink
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From Bengals.com

Unrestricted free agents: RT Stacy Andrews, DE Justin Smith, P, Kyle Larson; DL Bryan Robinson, MLB Landon Johnson, WLB Dhani Jones, FS Madieu Williams, WR Antonio Chatman, SLB Lemar Marshall, LB Caleb Miller, C Alex Stepanovich, K Aaron Elling.

Restricted free agents: DL Jonathan Fanene, QB Ryan Fitzpatrick, WR Tab Perry, T Adam Kieft, LB Roy Manning, TE Nate Lawrie


From the restricted FA's I would offer a tender to all except Nate Lawrie.

Unrestriced FA's to let go: DE Justin Smith, LB Caleb Miller, K Aaron Elling, WR Antonio Chatman

No tears if it can't happen: DL Bryan Robinson, FS Madieu Williams, SLB Lemar Marshall, C Alex Stepanovich

Unrestricted FA's to resign: RT Stacy Andrews, P Kyle Larson, MLB Landon Johnson, WLB Dhani Jones
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Old 01-05-2008, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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I love Willie too. There's only 2-3 Bengals in history that are as likable and as classy BUT, he is starting to be like a Jr. Griffey is to the Reds. He takes up alot of salary cap space and rarely gets on the field and I think the fact that coaches allowed him to stay on the active roster while losing personnel from the practice squad was a joke. Willie played about 1 full "meaningless" game of the last 8 I think and for what? That is bad management of personnel and I bet you Willie exerted some pressure on the staff to keep him active. That is not fair to the team and not of a benefit towards next season. I would have preferred to see Willie on IR and Matt Toeania still here. Seems like a little thing to some but I still think that kid will be a quality player that we should have never lost.
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Old 01-05-2008, 06:08 PM    (permalink
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I agree that Cory Williams looks like someone we should really pursue. He could make a big difference in the middle and he's young and gets a pass rush on too. (7 sacks) . How about Randall *** as an additional CB plus he is from the Pats so brings some playoff experience.
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