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Old 03-03-2010, 08:51 PM    (permalink
cvv84
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Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
Right, he's very raw.
This is why I'd like to see a veteran, experienced 34 OLB brought in, for the short time, because this team is good enough to win a Super Bowl now, if it improves the pass defense. I agree Jones might become a good one, and I like the kid a lot, but he was always singled by the weaker right tackle, and was absolutely MIA against Arizona.

I don't know who can give us more punch there.
Maybe it's Kampman, or Joey Porter, Adalius Thomas, Mike Vrabel, but we don't need a 22-year old still learning the position.

Carlos Rogers, Dunta Robinson, Leigh Bodden, Deshea Townsend might be able to help in the coverage. All are FA's and not their teams' top priorities to keep. Rogers at this point in time reminds me of Woodson in 2006. Both great talents, top-ten picks, who had struggled and been banged up, wanted a change of scenery.

It worked for Woodson. Getting Rogers could be like us getting a similiarly aged Al Harris. Or remember the last former top 12 pick we got from Washington? (Hint, he won us a Super Bowl as the games MVP)....
Kampman - He just doesn't fit the defense and is a huge liability in coverage. I'd rather spend the money elsewhere on our proven young talent.

Porter - He already said that he'd like to play out west in either San Diego or Arizona. No way we'd bring in a guy like Porter.

Thomas - Technically he's still a Patriot and even if/when he gets released he's not the same player he was 2 years ago and he'd surely find a home with Rex Ryan and the Jets.

Vrabel - I'd take Jones 7 days a week and twice on Sundays over Vrabel at this stage in his career.

Rogers - Never really a playmaker. He's also a restricted free agent so we'd have to trade for him and invest some money in a guy who's still a big mystery.

Robinson - He's going to get overpaid and he's regressed every year since his stellar rookie season. Another mystery guy who I'd be hessitant to invest in.

Bodden - Sometimes he's great and sometimes he's lousy. Trammon Williams?

Townsend - He's a year older than Woodson and has had a reduced role the past 2 seasons. Not really an upgrade over anyone on our roster IMO.



Lets all just take a dose of reality, this is Green Bay and this a team controlled by Ted Thompson. We're going to keep building through the draft and play a very minor role in free agency. If anything I could see TT start moving up to target guys instead of building for depth like he did when he first took over.

And J-Mike, Brad Jones was going against Levi Brown in that playoff game. Not exactally your "weaker right tackle." How about you talk to Capers and ask him why he ran the same gameplan as week 17. THAT is why we lost the wildcard.
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Old 03-03-2010, 11:03 PM    (permalink
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Maybe some free agents are over priced, others a bit overrated, but all I know is if Green Bay goes to battle with the same defensive backfield as they did last season...One and done in the playoffs in a QB-WR driven league is as far as they will get.

I'm not saying TT should do this or that, but I don't think simply addressing a need through the draft will be enough to push them over that hump. Then again Clay Mathews nearly did. Anyways, this offseason should be interesting.
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Old 03-03-2010, 11:04 PM    (permalink
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As cvv4 posted, it's nice to see that the un-tendered Jeremy Kapinos isn't taking sole responsibility for his poor punting. Not exactly the way to go if your looking to get a camp invite.

Quote:
“While I do admit I needed to improve and I was at fault for some of it, I won’t agree with anyone I was the lone liability. I think it’s very irresponsible to place the blame on one person. (Special teams) won’t improve if that’s the philosophy. I would hope there is a sense of accountability across the board.”
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Old 03-04-2010, 12:38 AM    (permalink
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I don't feel we will be one and done if we go into battle with the same DB's this season we should have beat the Cards but as CVV stated our defense got torched because we blow a team out, gave them a week to study what we did, and we went out and did the EXACT same thing. Same goes with the Vikings games where Capers decided to do the exact same thing both games which for some reason was not to blitz at all. I'd like to sign Robinson but I don't see it happening. I just hope Lee grows a sack and can stay on the field past training camp and for Blackmon not to get hurt after week 5 every season.

I love T. Will and think he just keeps getting better and the way he stepped in for Al this season was huge and helped save our season. I don't see Woodson and Williams as a bad combo it is the dact that we need someone to step into the Nickle roll whose name is not Jarrett last name Bush. As much as many would LOVE to think we can draft a CB and they will step in and be our knight in shiny armor and save our secondary... I'm sorry to inform but that isn't a great possibility. Look at our CB draft picks over the last 20 years...

Hits
1999 Mike McKenzie 3 rd round pick
1996 Tyrone Williams 3rd rd pick
1993 Doug Evans 6th rd pick, 1991

Not one hit in the 2000's instead this is what we have had:
2009 Brandon Underwood 6th rd pick
2008 Pat Lee 2nd rd pick
2006 Will Blackmon 4th rd pick
2005 Mike Hawkins 5th rd pick
2003 Ahmad Carrol 1st rd pick
Joey Thomas 3rd rd pick
2002 Chris Johnson 7th rd pick
1999 Atwan Edwards 1st rd pick, started 18 games 7 picks in 5 years
Fred Vincent 2nd rd pick
1998 Roosvelt Blackmon 4th rd pick
1995 Craig Newsome 1sr rd pick
1991 Terrell Buckley 1st round pick

Hit only on 3 in 20 years, (guys that actually made a difference and was a reliable starter) not very good.

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Old 03-04-2010, 01:10 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by RyanBraun8 View Post
I don't feel we will be one and done if we go into battle with the same DB's this season we should have beat the Cards but as CVV stated our defense got torched because we blow a team out, gave them a week to study what we did, and we went out and did the EXACT same thing. Same goes with the Vikings games where Capers decided to do the exact same thing both games which for some reason was not to blitz at all. I'd like to sign Robinson but I don't see it happening. I just hope Lee grows a sack and can stay on the field past training camp and for Blackmon not to get hurt after week 5 every season.

I love T. Will and think he just keeps getting better and the way he stepped in for Al this season was huge and helped save our season. I don't see Woodson and Williams as a bad combo it is the dact that we need someone to step into the Nickle roll whose name is not Jarrett last name Bush. As much as many would LOVE to think we can draft a CB and they will step in and be our knight in shiny armor and save our secondary... I'm sorry to inform but that isn't a great possibility. Look at our CB draft picks over the last 20 years...

Hits
1999 Mike McKenzie 3 rd round pick
1996 Tyrone Williams 3rd rd pick
1993 Doug Evans 6th rd pick, 1991

Not one hit in the 2000's instead this is what we have had:
2009 Brandon Underwood 6th rd pick
2008 Pat Lee 2nd rd pick
2006 Will Blackmon 4th rd pick
2005 Mike Hawkins 5th rd pick
2003 Ahmad Carrol 1st rd pick
Joey Thomas 3rd rd pick
2002 Chris Johnson 7th rd pick
1999 Atwan Edwards 1st rd pick, started 18 games 7 picks in 5 years
Fred Vincent 2nd rd pick
1998 Roosvelt Blackmon 4th rd pick
1995 Craig Newsome 1sr rd pick
1991 Terrell Buckley 1st round pick

Hit only on 3 in 20 years, (guys that actually made a difference and was a reliable starter) not very good.
i dont know how you can look in any past history of drafting corners other then ted thompsons.. its not like a corner picked by green bay is doomed.
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biigest mistake packers ever make was geting rid of craig nall he beter then bret faver
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Old 03-04-2010, 11:20 AM    (permalink
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Im not saying they are doomed, just that statistics prove that rookie corners usually don't have the impact that people hope for. We can draft Cox, Warren, Wilson, and etc but just because we pick them doesn't mean we will be better because of it. The nice thing about my breakdown is it does include TT picks along with the worst drafting GM (Sherman) and the best (Wolf). TT as an eye more like Wolf because he worked under him but does TT make it a higher chance of success? No, it is very hit or miss and usually more towards miss. Maybe we find a gem who can impact like Cox for the Jags last season but to expect anything more than a decent nickle corner for the next 2 seasons is asking for for a little much. At 23 there are no DRC's or Jenkins this season who will be there. 2nd round maybe one can be an okay nickle but who knows. CB is a tough postion for young guys to to develop. OLB, OT, and SS usually make a smother transition. CB's develop like WR and take time....usually
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Old 03-04-2010, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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Both Antrelle Rolle and Marlin Jackson are now available. Rolle was released and Jackson wasn't tendered. I'm not saying GO GET THEM, but they might be a couple of guys to consider.

Although, I think Rolle will be vastly overpaid and Marlin Jackson is coming off an ACL tear. I'm not sure my point here, but they are just a couple of DB's now available. I wish I could get inside TT's head for a day.
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Old 03-04-2010, 04:10 PM    (permalink
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i dont know how you can look in any past history of drafting corners other then ted thompsons.. its not like a corner picked by green bay is doomed.
Right, so focus in on Ted's CB picks only then.
It's a grade of a D- at best, for his drafting of CB's.

Woodson and Harris are are only good ones. Neither were his draft picks.
Tramon is a solid nickel, and borderline decent #2 CB. He signed him, but didn't draft him. Look at his actual draft picks of CB's, all of them.

Pat Lee, Thrill Blackmon, Brandon Underwood.... these are the best of his CB picks in his Packer history, and these guys so far are failures as CB's period. They are our weaknesses. Whatever the reason is, that can be debated, but clearly they have not panned out yet, no question about it.

That's why when you can do what we did to get Al Harris, or Charles Woodson, you should do it with this position.

Carlos Rogers, Antonio Cromartie, Leigh Bodden, Dunta Robinson, Ken Lucas, Anthony Henry, Deshea Townsend, even the veteran Dre' Bly. Nobody can convince me that none of those guys would make our team better when we need 5, 6 CB's out there against pass-happy offenses like the ones that killed us.
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Old 03-04-2010, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
Right, so focus in on Ted's CB picks only then.
It's a grade of a D- at best, for his drafting of CB's.
I agree to a degree here. TT hasn't really ever spent a high pick on a CB for us other than Pat Lee. He has found good players in the secondary though. He drafted Marcus Trufant, Michael Boulware has 2 good seasons, he transitioned Nick Collins to safety, signed Trammon Williams, and brought in Woodson.

He's really taken the same approach with the offensive line - draft mid to late round guys and hope they develop.
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Old 03-04-2010, 05:10 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
Right, so focus in on Ted's CB picks only then.
It's a grade of a D- at best, for his drafting of CB's.

Woodson and Harris are are only good ones. Neither were his draft picks.
Tramon is a solid nickel, and borderline decent #2 CB. He signed him, but didn't draft him. Look at his actual draft picks of CB's, all of them.

Pat Lee, Thrill Blackmon, Brandon Underwood.... these are the best of his CB picks in his Packer history, and these guys so far are failures as CB's period. They are our weaknesses. Whatever the reason is, that can be debated, but clearly they have not panned out yet, no question about it.

That's why when you can do what we did to get Al Harris, or Charles Woodson, you should do it with this position.

Carlos Rogers, Antonio Cromartie, Leigh Bodden, Dunta Robinson, Ken Lucas, Anthony Henry, Deshea Townsend, even the veteran Dre' Bly. Nobody can convince me that none of those guys would make our team better when we need 5, 6 CB's out there against pass-happy offenses like the ones that killed us.
Yes, yes, yes, and yes. I agree completely. It would be a mistake to think Green Bay can go into the season counting on Blackmon, Lee, and/or Underwood to solidify the defensive backfield. There is talent to be had this offseason, and I hope to God TT isn't overvaluin his in-house talent.

If I'm wrong and pleasantly surprised, then great. But I don't think what they have is nearly enough to contend for the ultimate goal of a Superbowl.
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Old 03-04-2010, 07:13 PM    (permalink
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Some interesting notes from Greg Bedard:

Quote:
Sean Jensen at the Chicago Sun-Times says heís hearing the Philadelphia Eagles will be first in line for linebacker/end Aaron Kampman once free agency starts.

A 3-4 defensive line coach told me that Idaho guard Mike Iupati jumped off the film so much at the Senior Bowl that the coach didnít want to watch linemen anymore, he just wanted to watch Iupati maul people. While some think Iupati could play tackle in the NFL, that likely wonít come for a couple years. Heís the type of guy that needs to be made comfortable in one spot. Once he masters that, then you can try to move him. Coach said heíd lobby to take Iupati in the top 20.

A 3-4 coach told me he wanted nothing to do with Michigan linebacker Brandon Graham because his short stature and short arms will make it hard for him to get off blocks.

Line coach said Penn State DE Jared Odrick is a try-hard kid that wonít make plays in the NFL. Canít two-gap like you need in the 3-4.

Couldn't tell you how many people raved about TE Jermichael Finley. People around the league expect him to be a Pro Bowler this season. Scouts also like LB Brad Jones and wonder how they missed him.

I understand that Packers fans want to get all revved up about the start of free agency, just like their friends that support other teams. Itís really fun to think about what a guy like Julius Peppers would look like on the other side of Clay Matthews. Or Antrel Rolle roaming the secondary next to Nick Collins. I get it. I really do. But my advice to Packers fans is this: Just stop. Please. For your own mental health. There is absolutely no reason for you to expect anything out of the initial rush of free agency. The Packers do not get involved during the first weekend of free agency. They may call a few guys and tell them theyíre interested, but there will be no urgency.
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Old 03-04-2010, 07:55 PM    (permalink
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If there is one guy I hope the Packers can make a push for, it's Marlin Jackson. With Al Harris not being 100% and could be cut, we need a number 2 guy, and Jackson is that guy and fits the type of CBs TT likes.
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:08 PM    (permalink
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If there is one guy I hope the Packers can make a push for, it's Marlin Jackson. With Al Harris not being 100% and could be cut, we need a number 2 guy, and Jackson is that guy and fits the type of CBs TT likes.
11 games the past 2 years. 2 ACL injuries. 4 career INTs in 5 seasons. I'll pass.
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:15 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by cvv84 View Post
Some interesting notes from Greg Bedard:Some interesting notes from Greg Bedard:


Quote:
Sean Jensen at the Chicago Sun-Times says heís hearing the Philadelphia Eagles will be first in line for linebacker/end Aaron Kampman once free agency starts.

A 3-4 defensive line coach told me that Idaho guard Mike Iupati jumped off the film so much at the Senior Bowl that the coach didnít want to watch linemen anymore, he just wanted to watch Iupati maul people. While some think Iupati could play tackle in the NFL, that likely wonít come for a couple years. Heís the type of guy that needs to be made comfortable in one spot. Once he masters that, then you can try to move him. Coach said heíd lobby to take Iupati in the top 20.

A 3-4 coach told me he wanted nothing to do with Michigan linebacker Brandon Graham because his short stature and short arms will make it hard for him to get off blocks.

Line coach said Penn State DE Jared Odrick is a try-hard kid that wonít make plays in the NFL. Canít two-gap like you need in the 3-4.

Couldn't tell you how many people raved about TE Jermichael Finley. People around the league expect him to be a Pro Bowler this season. Scouts also like LB Brad Jones and wonder how they missed him.

I understand that Packers fans want to get all revved up about the start of free agency, just like their friends that support other teams. Itís really fun to think about what a guy like Julius Peppers would look like on the other side of Clay Matthews. Or Antrel Rolle roaming the secondary next to Nick Collins. I get it. I really do. But my advice to Packers fans is this: Just stop. Please. For your own mental health. There is absolutely no reason for you to expect anything out of the initial rush of free agency.The Packers do not get involved during the first weekend of free agency. They may call a few guys and tell them theyíre interested, but there will be no urgency.
Ha I believe CVV84 has said this many many many times... in which I have agreed!
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:17 PM    (permalink
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Favre tonight talking to Leno on his INT vs. NO:

"Both legs were killing me. In hindsight, I wish I would’ve ran, but I don’t know if I could have. I really don’t.” (tear)

http://twitter.com/espn_nfcnblog
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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Brodney Pool wasn't tendered by the Browns either. I haven't seen much of him, if any, but just throwing that out there because he's another free agent DB. I remember Pool being really talented coming out of Oklahoma though.
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:22 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by cvv84 View Post
11 games the past 2 years. 2 ACL injuries. 4 career INTs in 5 seasons. I'll pass.
yet he is better then all our guys except for Woodson. He will come keep, but I wouldn't give up on him because of injuries.
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:26 PM    (permalink
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yet he is better then all our guys except for Woodson. He will come keep, but I wouldn't give up on him because of injuries.
He's a solid tackler but thats about it. No playmaking ability and lacks coverage skills. His 15 career pass defenses are 2 more than Nick Collins has this past season. I wouldn't call him an upgrade for Trammon and he'd only be an upgrade over Harris because of Harris's age and injury.
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:30 PM    (permalink
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Brodney Pool wasn't tendered by the Browns either. I haven't seen much of him, if any, but just throwing that out there because he's another free agent DB. I remember Pool being really talented coming out of Oklahoma though.
I remember Brodney Pool being the GB pick that year on Scott's mocks.
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:40 PM    (permalink
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He's a solid tackler but thats about it. No playmaking ability and lacks coverage skills. His 15 career pass defenses are 2 more than Nick Collins has this past season. I wouldn't call him an upgrade for Trammon and he'd only be an upgrade over Harris because of Harris's age and injury.
Al Harris isn't a ballhawk by any means, and still had a great career. Many factors could play as to why his INTs are low. I want to know how many times he was targeted. I hope TT looks at him, he will come cheap, and could be a nickel guy. Also, Williams wasn't looking like he was 2 seasons ago, his play fell last year.

If TT values competition, then targeting Jackson cheap can help that. We can have Williams, Jackon, and Lee battle for the 2nd and 3rd CB spots. He is a good, not great CB but in a Zone Cover Scheme, you don't need great CBs to win.
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:49 PM    (permalink
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He's a solid tackler but thats about it. No playmaking ability and lacks coverage skills. His 15 career pass defenses are 2 more than Nick Collins has this past season. I wouldn't call him an upgrade for Trammon and he'd only be an upgrade over Harris because of Harris's age and injury.
Is there 1 defensive back on Green Bay's team that can be considered a solid tackler aside from Woodson? And injuries definitely should cause pause, but Tauscher came back this year after 2 shoulder surgeries AND 2 major knee surgeries.

Different and incomparable players, but throwing away a consideration just because of a couple of freak injuries wouldn't be smart. If he could indeed come fairly cheap, then I think he's worth a look. I'm saying that only, because I don't think TT will go after any of the big names on the market.
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Old 03-04-2010, 10:23 PM    (permalink
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Al Harris isn't a ballhawk by any means, and still had a great career. Many factors could play as to why his INTs are low. I want to know how many times he was targeted. I hope TT looks at him, he will come cheap, and could be a nickel guy. Also, Williams wasn't looking like he was 2 seasons ago, his play fell last year.

If TT values competition, then targeting Jackson cheap can help that. We can have Williams, Jackon, and Lee battle for the 2nd and 3rd CB spots. He is a good, not great CB but in a Zone Cover Scheme, you don't need great CBs to win.
Al Harris has had a great career because he is the most dreaded, physical, in your face CB in the NFL. You don't need to be a ballhawk when you have those tanglables. Poole doesn't have those..

If we are going to take an injuried guy to play CB make it Jackson because he has had a solid career so far with many less questions. Like you mentioned in the second paragraph.

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Old 03-04-2010, 10:29 PM    (permalink
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Is there 1 defensive back on Green Bay's team that can be considered a solid tackler aside from Woodson? And injuries definitely should cause pause, but Tauscher came back this year after 2 shoulder surgeries AND 2 major knee surgeries.

Different and incomparable players, but throwing away a consideration just because of a couple of freak injuries wouldn't be smart. If he could indeed come fairly cheap, then I think he's worth a look. I'm saying that only, because I don't think TT will go after any of the big names on the market.

Al Harris is a pretty good tackler, not Woodson good but he is not bad. Collins is brutally bad a lot of the time and Bigby has his moments where you are left just shaking your head.

That also left me shaking my head knowing how ACL is probably the one of the hardest football injuries to come back from def at CB where you really need that lateral movement and planting. One time I could deal with, 2 times is really stretching it.

Jackson>Poole
1 ACL Tear vs. 2 ACL Tears

An ACL tear isn't a nothing "freak" injury in the NFL, a couple of "freak" injuries of the ACL is usually a decent sign that your career is near over. Way to hard to rebound after 2 straight

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Old 03-04-2010, 11:52 PM    (permalink
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Per ESPN, Peppers and Chester Taylor will be visiting the Bears on Friday.

I'm willing to let this all play out but the Jets got Cromartie for a 3rd that could be a 2nd later. I'm sorry but that's a deal that TT should have jumped at. Whether he is lock down or not, he would be better then any 3rd rounder the Pack picked.

I'm not smart enough to know how the uncapped year is going to help/hurt things I just know that will some added defensive depth the Packers could be scary good with the offense they have.

Look Peppers doesn't really fill a need for the Bears, unless he plays RB, OL, or DB but still, he's an impact player and if he does sign there, TT must address LT with greater importance.
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Old 03-05-2010, 12:41 AM    (permalink
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Right, so focus in on Ted's CB picks only then.
It's a grade of a D- at best, for his drafting of CB's.

Woodson and Harris are are only good ones. Neither were his draft picks.
Tramon is a solid nickel, and borderline decent #2 CB. He signed him, but didn't draft him. Look at his actual draft picks of CB's, all of them.

Pat Lee, Thrill Blackmon, Brandon Underwood.... these are the best of his CB picks in his Packer history, and these guys so far are failures as CB's period. They are our weaknesses. Whatever the reason is, that can be debated, but clearly they have not panned out yet, no question about it.

That's why when you can do what we did to get Al Harris, or Charles Woodson, you should do it with this position.

Carlos Rogers, Antonio Cromartie, Leigh Bodden, Dunta Robinson, Ken Lucas, Anthony Henry, Deshea Townsend, even the veteran Dre' Bly. Nobody can convince me that none of those guys would make our team better when we need 5, 6 CB's out there against pass-happy offenses like the ones that killed us.
right because i said ted thompson is amazing at drafting corners. i still have hope for pat lee. will blackmon played receiver his last year in college or maybe it was his junior year idr. he was never supposed to be a top flight corner.

you also have too look at where everyone was picked.. maybe he never had a shot at getting a good corner in the draft because another team picked before us. also carlos rogers and cromartie are with other teams. cromartie has been traded since your post but still. he isnt a free agent. those guys might make our team better but they arent even available in free agency so we shouldnt even think about them.
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