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Old 03-02-2008, 04:25 PM    (permalink
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Plus if Eli and Shockey get on the same page....the league better watch out.
Yeah, but I do have to say it's interesting reading other team's fans opinions on shockey. Granted he is no angel, but you'd think he is TO or something. Alot of the stuff goes back to when he was drafted and his immaturity. That stuff apparently has been the foundation for his negative image. In my opinion the difference between him and others that want the ball is his passion to really want to win. It;s not like he does it for the money or fame or anything. He just wants to make a play. He never does the TO popcorn thing, or Chad Johnson antics. Granted, like I said he is no angel, but you'd think he fell in the same category if you went on different boards and read some of the things.
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Old 03-02-2008, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, but I do have to say it's interesting reading other team's fans opinions on shockey. Granted he is no angel, but you'd think he is TO or something. Alot of the stuff goes back to when he was drafted and his immaturity. That stuff apparently has been the foundation for his negative image. In my opinion the difference between him and others that want the ball is his passion to really want to win. It;s not like he does it for the money or fame or anything. He just wants to make a play. He never does the TO popcorn thing, or Chad Johnson antics. Granted, like I said he is no angel, but you'd think he fell in the same category if you went on different boards and read some of the things.
Chad Johnson antics, dont you think thats a little hypocrital? Alot of these guys arent bad guys off the field, they are just passionate, want to win, want the ball to make plays etc, its no different...Chad, Shockey, Winslow, TO, lump them all as the same, they all have their differences in how they go about it but they arent bad guys off the field without any sense...Shockey has had tirades where he was going off on the sidelines or on Eli, I have no problem with it, but there is no difference between the others to me...Just because he doesnt dance after a td celebration doesnt mean he isnt the same attitude wise.
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Old 03-02-2008, 09:05 PM    (permalink
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Chad Johnson antics, dont you think thats a little hypocrital? Alot of these guys arent bad guys off the field, they are just passionate, want to win, want the ball to make plays etc, its no different...Chad, Shockey, Winslow, TO, lump them all as the same, they all have their differences in how they go about it but they arent bad guys off the field without any sense...Shockey has had tirades where he was going off on the sidelines or on Eli, I have no problem with it, but there is no difference between the others to me...Just because he doesnt dance after a td celebration doesnt mean he isnt the same attitude wise.
I think TO is in it for himself much more than the team.
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Old 03-02-2008, 09:27 PM    (permalink
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I think TO is in it for himself much more than the team.
Alot of people feel the exact same way about Shockey...I disagree with that aspect about TO but im a cowboys fans, and im sure almost all giants fans will tell me the opposite about shockey as well.
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Old 03-02-2008, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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Alot of people feel the exact same way about Shockey...I disagree with that aspect about TO but im a cowboys fans, and im sure almost all giants fans will tell me the opposite about shockey as well.
Every single Giant and every single Giants coach raves about Shockey's team first mentality. He was a tad immature when he came into the league, calling out coaches and such. But the effort he puts into his game is never lacking, ever. And he has put on a solid 25-30 pounds of muscle that has detracted from his receiving ability but improved his run blocking.

I really don't see any comparison between Shockey and TO...two very different personalities.
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Old 03-02-2008, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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i still remember when shockey ate the dirt on the field after losing in college, because he "wanted to remember wat losing tasted like." I think thats a player who puts himself above his team, and although i think there are times when he talks a little too much, most of the time he is just trying to get himself the ball because he knows he is a playmaker and is trying to help the team win. I think the same thing about TO...they are just brought down a level by the media alot of the time
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Old 03-02-2008, 09:45 PM    (permalink
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One thing about Shockey is it does not matter what is going on when he is on that field he givs 110%.
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Old 03-02-2008, 09:52 PM    (permalink
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Every single Giant and every single Giants coach raves about Shockey's team first mentality. He was a tad immature when he came into the league, calling out coaches and such. But the effort he puts into his game is never lacking, ever. And he has put on a solid 25-30 pounds of muscle that has detracted from his receiving ability but improved his run blocking.

I really don't see any comparison between Shockey and TO...two very different personalities.


Right, and like you said at first he was calling out coaches and having sideline tirades, but as of lately not so much...What has TO done since he's been in Dallas to show he only cares about himself and not the team? Its actually the exact opposite, people just still have their opinions formed before his tenure in Dallas even started...Both guys are emotional, passionate, want to win and always lay it all on the line...I really dont see much of a difference on the field, sounds like the same guys to me...Its not as if Shockey has never gotten into it with Eli on the field, which is the same thats happened with TO...There really isnt that much of a contrast in personalities.
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Old 03-02-2008, 09:59 PM    (permalink
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One thing about Shockey is it does not matter what is going on when he is on that field he givs 110%.
He should stay in NY and go to Gang Green. I like Baker but having Shockey as Clemens' safety blanket would be nice.
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Old 03-02-2008, 10:04 PM    (permalink
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I'm not attacking TO....think your perceiving it that way.

TO is much more about himself than Shockey is about himself....not a big deal and nothing worthy of taking offense to. That's all I'm saying.
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Old 03-02-2008, 10:10 PM    (permalink
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Its not as if Shockey has never gotten into it with Eli on the field, which is the same thats happened with TO...There really isnt that much of a contrast in personalities.
Actually I've never seen Shockey get into on the field with Eli. Just the occasional throwing his arms up in the air.
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Old 03-02-2008, 10:28 PM    (permalink
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Chad Johnson antics, dont you think thats a little hypocrital? Alot of these guys arent bad guys off the field, they are just passionate, want to win, want the ball to make plays etc, its no different...Chad, Shockey, Winslow, TO, lump them all as the same, they all have their differences in how they go about it but they arent bad guys off the field without any sense...Shockey has had tirades where he was going off on the sidelines or on Eli, I have no problem with it, but there is no difference between the others to me...Just because he doesnt dance after a td celebration doesnt mean he isnt the same attitude wise.
Alot of what shockey has done been in his rookie year, where he fought our LB because they made him sing a song about his signing bonus which is a tradition for 1st round picks. He also went on the Howard Stern show, and talked about some stuff he shouldn't have for all to hear.

When Eli would throw an incomplete pass Shockey would show him up, which is a bad thing. He would make hand gestures which Eli wouldn't like. But other than that he really is not bad as people think.

Once Wellington Mara took him under his wing, he got alot better than what he was when he came into the league. Either way, I don't think he would be traded, and hopefully if he can come back and realize he has less leverage because the team did win a superbowl without him, and cut the crap, maybe this offense can be better with him.

But I don't see him as a cancer as some of our fan base would make it out. Does he need to mature more perhaps? Yeah, but hopefully this superbowl win will put him in his place.
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Old 03-25-2008, 12:07 AM    (permalink
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There is still a lot more becoming available about the Saints to New Orleans discussion.

Two conflicting reports... one source states that the Saints offered the Giants our second round pick along with Roman Harper for Shockey and the Giants rebuffed. However, PFT (our reliable friend) claims that the Saints only offered our second round pick and the Giants insisted on that pick along with Roman Harper.

Regardless, I think there is a big possibility that the Giants move Shockey in the offseason probably around draft time and it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see the Saints land him. The question is how much New Orleans is willing to give up to acquire him.
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Old 03-25-2008, 12:31 AM    (permalink
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Throw in Bullocks and the 2nd rounder? Bullocks hasn't panned out and has one year left on his rookie deal, but there's some hope with Harper who has two years left on his deal. The Saints need him in the meantime.

Eh, while I like Shockey, I think I'd rather hang onto the 2nd round pick though from the Saints' perspective. The Saints need another defensive player to build on. I respect them wanting to take advantage of Brees' prime, more teams should take note, but they're already three-deep at TE with guys who are servicable and they go even deeper at wide receiver with more talent.
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Old 03-25-2008, 09:20 AM    (permalink
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Throw in Bullocks and the 2nd rounder? Bullocks hasn't panned out and has one year left on his rookie deal, but there's some hope with Harper who has two years left on his deal. The Saints need him in the meantime.

Eh, while I like Shockey, I think I'd rather hang onto the 2nd round pick though from the Saints' perspective. The Saints need another defensive player to build on. I respect them wanting to take advantage of Brees' prime, more teams should take note, but they're already three-deep at TE with guys who are servicable and they go even deeper at wide receiver with more talent.
That makes sense, but apparently for some reason, according to reports they are not letting this go. They want him or still very interested.
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Old 03-25-2008, 10:41 AM    (permalink
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If the Saints trade for Shockey, it's not a bad move. He's top-notch.

It's just that I think I would rather spend that pick on a young defensive player, if I were them. Probably a defensive tackle ... but then again DT has a high bust rate, you know what you're going to get with Shockey. Maybe he doesn't stretch the field like he once did and he has issues with his hands every once in a while, but he's a very capable receiving weapon and he can block.
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Old 03-25-2008, 10:46 AM    (permalink
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If the Saints trade for Shockey, it's not a bad move. He's top-notch.

It's just that I think I would rather spend that pick on a young defensive player, if I were them. Probably a defensive tackle ... but then again DT has a high bust rate, you know what you're going to get with Shockey. Maybe he doesn't stretch the field like he once did and he has issues with his hands every once in a while, but he's a very capable receiving weapon and he can block.
That's the thing that makes this situation different. SHockey is under contract and there is no need to trade him. So in essence, if they truly do want him, they would need to give us an offer we can't refuse, because we really don't need to trade him. We can use Shockey and Boss next season out of a double tight look. I guess the responsibility is on them to get us to say yes.
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Old 03-25-2008, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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Alot of what shockey has done been in his rookie year, where he fought our LB because they made him sing a song about his signing bonus which is a tradition for 1st round picks. He also went on the Howard Stern show, and talked about some stuff he shouldn't have for all to hear.

When Eli would throw an incomplete pass Shockey would show him up, which is a bad thing. He would make hand gestures which Eli wouldn't like. But other than that he really is not bad as people think.

Once Wellington Mara took him under his wing, he got alot better than what he was when he came into the league. Either way, I don't think he would be traded, and hopefully if he can come back and realize he has less leverage because the team did win a superbowl without him, and cut the crap, maybe this offense can be better with him.

But I don't see him as a cancer as some of our fan base would make it out. Does he need to mature more perhaps? Yeah, but hopefully this superbowl win will put him in his place.
I really doubt the fact that the Giants won a Superbowl is going to make him change his personality. In fact, your line of reasoning makes no sense.
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Old 03-25-2008, 11:13 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
I really doubt the fact that the Giants won a Superbowl is going to make him change his personality. In fact, your line of reasoning makes no sense.
If he doesn't then the media will really put pressure on him, and the organization to do something regarding him. The big thing here was him working out in NJ rather than going to miami. Now with us winning, I can bet the media will be waiting to see what Shockey does. If he, again, stays in Miami, I would be guess that it would be bad for him. So actually it does make sense, with us winning, there are fans and parts of the media that link that we are better with him and his "antics". So this hopefully gives him some incentive to change his personality in terms of working out with the team, and his QB in NJ during the offseason and not in Miami. Then maybe when he doesn't get the ball during the regular season he has no right to make gestures or do what he did in the past.
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Old 03-25-2008, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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Shockey has never given a **** what the media or the fans think. So again, why would that change now?

You think he needs a right to act like an asshole? Are you serious?
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Old 03-25-2008, 11:27 AM    (permalink
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Shockey has never given a **** what the media or the fans think. So again, why would that change now?

You think he needs a right to act like an asshole? Are you serious?
Why would he change now? If he wants to be on this team, he should or would be smart to. Do you think the Maras or Reese would just sit and let him do what he wants to do? There is an opinion among NY that we can win without him, and with Boss progressing, we can ship him out.

If he still has the mentality that he can do whatever, and still continue the way he has been, I wouldn't be suprised if we traded him because of that. You see I am not saying he will change, but the opinion is if he doesn't he may not be on this team. So in essence it's up to him. He very well could stay the same, and not care, what anyone thinks. But the consequence of that may be getting traded because the Maras and Reese believe we can win without him, and that the team has better chemistry without him. Mind you that's not my personal opinion, but these are the opinions being tossed around by our media and some of our fan base.
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Old 03-25-2008, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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I doubthe is if reece passed on a trade that would've sent him to NO for there second rounder and Harper.
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Old 03-25-2008, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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Shockey's biggest problem is that he lost trust in his team mates on O, so he put it on himself to win games for this team. After the superbowl we know this team can without him so I see him coming in as a very different player as they've proven themselves, now he can just be part of this machine. Shockey will either have his best season yet or get injured.
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Old 03-25-2008, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, but I do have to say it's interesting reading other team's fans opinions on shockey. Granted he is no angel, but you'd think he is TO or something. Alot of the stuff goes back to when he was drafted and his immaturity. That stuff apparently has been the foundation for his negative image. In my opinion the difference between him and others that want the ball is his passion to really want to win.
Pretty much same thing with Winslow, funny that theyre both Miami tight ends too.
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Old 03-25-2008, 11:59 AM    (permalink
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Pretty much same thing with Winslow, funny that theyre both Miami tight ends too.
Well my point was that when Shockey was drafted he came in with that UM swagger. That I was a stud there, at a stud school, so automatically respect me type attitude. People don't realize he has toned it down from when he got drafted. He was on the howard stern show I remember saying he wants a 3 some or something like that. You can think that, but to say that in NY, with an organization like ours, is a no no. Another thing was calling Tuna, a ****, lol. Another incident was throwing ice at the sf game over his shoulder because he was mad, and it hit a kid in the stands by mistake. Since then he has toned it down. Also, he is not the smartest person, and the media at times, would try to get him to say stuff worthy of a sound bite, which now has changed big time.

When people hear his interviews by his locker, he actually tries hard to think before he talks. At times you can tell he is trying to say the right thing, and you see the media still trying to get him to "be him" and say something.

Now the current issue was with how he used to show up eli via hand gestures and body language. All I was saying is that hopefully, this hits his ego. Maybe now, he can realize that this team can win without him, and now the media and some our fans feel like we don't need him anymore. And that we have the leverage to "make" him come to OTAs in NJ rather than Miami, and be part of the team and work with Eli, so when he runs one way and the ball goes another, we don't have to see him show ELi up.

So my point is hopefully this wakes him up. Reese and Mara, as well, as the media now basically know this team has won without him, and therefore, if they don't like what he is doing can ship him out and trust in Boss.

I like shockey and think he still is an asset to this team, but the alot of giants fans and media feel like we are better off without him. So my original point is that hopefully by winning this superbowl he can realize he isn't "the man". That perhaps if he does want to get better and develop chemistry he should stay and work out with Eli.
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