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Old 03-08-2008, 07:26 PM    (permalink
lost33cause
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Default Haynseworth

If the Titans were to consider draft day trades what would be a good cost for him? I know he's franchised but so was Corey Williams. I am a bengals fan still desperatly looking to upgrade the DT position so I might be just dreaming but I was thinking an offer of 2 2nd round draft picks like this year and next year would be enough to get him. Next year Haynseworth will hit FA and demand huge money so if I was with the Titans I might want to trade him now to get something out of him rather than lose him out right next year.

But like I said I might be dreaming, is it that far away from the realm of possibilities?
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Old 03-08-2008, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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Its not a guarantee he hits the open market next off-season, they do have the money 2 sign him.
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Old 03-08-2008, 08:13 PM    (permalink
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You need to wake up. 2 2nd rounders for argueably the most dominant defensive presence in the NFL? 2 1st rounders might get you a maybe. Our defense is **** without him so we will definitely keep him for this year and do everything we can to retain him longer. We have incredible cap so that's no problem.
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Old 03-08-2008, 08:23 PM    (permalink
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You need to wake up. 2 2nd rounders for argueably the most dominant defensive presence in the NFL? 2 1st rounders might get you a maybe. Our defense is **** without him so we will definitely keep him for this year and do everything we can to retain him longer. We have incredible cap so that's no problem.
The most dominant in one year out of 5. Before last year, Haynesworth was considered one of the bigger busts of his draft class.
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Old 03-08-2008, 08:45 PM    (permalink
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The most dominant in one year out of 5. Before last year, Haynesworth was considered one of the bigger busts of his draft class.
Only because he couldn't stay on the field. He hasn't been as dominant as he was last year, but he was solid. But because he couldn't stay on the field he couldn't put up the stats.
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Old 03-08-2008, 08:45 PM    (permalink
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The most dominant in one year out of 5. Before last year, Haynesworth was considered one of the bigger busts of his draft class.
and a piece of sh*t trouble maker because he stomped on that dallas center's face
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Old 03-08-2008, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by lost33cause View Post
If the Titans were to consider draft day trades what would be a good cost for him? I know he's franchised but so was Corey Williams. I am a bengals fan still desperatly looking to upgrade the DT position so I might be just dreaming but I was thinking an offer of 2 2nd round draft picks like this year and next year would be enough to get him. Next year Haynseworth will hit FA and demand huge money so if I was with the Titans I might want to trade him now to get something out of him rather than lose him out right next year.

But like I said I might be dreaming, is it that far away from the realm of possibilities?
I personally do not think it iss the best idea to bring Haynesworth to the Bengals, for obvious reasons
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Old 03-08-2008, 08:59 PM    (permalink
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I personally do not think it iss the best idea to bring Haynesworth to the Bengals, for obvious reasons
Haynesworth has never been an off-field issue for the Titans.
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Old 03-08-2008, 09:02 PM    (permalink
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Haynesworth has never been an off-field issue for the Titans.
Yeah... lets add "on-field issues" to the Bengals' character concern list.
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Old 03-08-2008, 09:23 PM    (permalink
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i personally wouldnt trade for haynesworth, just because im of teh opinion once he gets his big guaranteed money (which some team will givve him) he will go back to being the lazy sack of **** he was before.

That said, i think with the season he just had, he demands at least a late 1st if the titans do trade him. The only team i can see doing that is maybe SD, to play him at end in their 3-4 (hte only reason i say that is because they dont really have any other major holes) that would leave them with hardly any draft picks, so i dont see it happeneing. I think he stays in tennessee
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Old 03-08-2008, 09:46 PM    (permalink
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In order for a team to get Mike Reinfeldt, GM for the Titans, to even entertain a trade, it will take an offer of two 1st RD picks. Thats the tender for a Franshise Player, and will be the price. That amount is based on the talent level and ability of Haynesworth as a player, and the need for Haynesworth by the Titans. Two 2nd RD picks? A late-1st RD pick? Those aren't equal value to Fat Al's value, period.

As for the "on-the-field" issues, those are over. It's bad enough that Albert gets a personal foul for every hard hit he makes. It was a one time incident, and he's done nothing else to suggest that he'll be a trouble maker. Unlike PacMan, Haynesworth attended every anger-management class he was ordered to attend, and also trained with a retired All-Pro DLineman during his suspension to make sure he stayed in shape and improve, which he did greatly. To me, the biggest thing that makes me believe that he will not repeat that previous level of attrocious conduct is when he told the story of him having to explain to his son why he did what he did. That registered the highest with me anyway. But as the same with the injury and lazyness issues, it's all subjective and haters will hate.

But yeah, two 1st RD'ers or go don't bother.
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Old 03-08-2008, 09:56 PM    (permalink
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In order for a team to get Mike Reinfeldt, GM for the Titans, to even entertain a trade, it will take an offer of two 1st RD picks. Thats the tender for a Franshise Player, and will be the price.
If it took 2 1st round picks, they wouldn't need Mike Reinfeldt to "entertain a trade"... they'd just negotiate a contract with Haynesworth.
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Old 03-08-2008, 09:58 PM    (permalink
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If he has a similar season he'd get tagged for sure.
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Old 03-08-2008, 10:24 PM    (permalink
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If it took 2 1st round picks, they wouldn't need Mike Reinfeldt to "entertain a trade"... they'd just negotiate a contract with Haynesworth.
I'm just answering the man's question. Though, the reality is that Haynesworth isn't going anywhere. His influence on the FO from a player's position is on par with Vince Young, at this point.

In order for the Titans to let go of a player who helps the team as much as Haynesworth, they need an equal return. I don't see a situation appearing that allows a team to make a trade with Tennessee. And then, the trading team will have to work our a contract with Haynesworth, which will probably have to be around 7-year/$55 million/$20 million guranteed, thanks to Al Davis...
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Old 03-08-2008, 10:35 PM    (permalink
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I'm just answering the man's question. Though, the reality is that Haynesworth isn't going anywhere. His influence on the FO from a player's position is on par with Vince Young, at this point.
Actually, he isn't going anywhere because no team will give 2 1st rounders for a player with one dominant year and his track record.
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Old 03-08-2008, 10:46 PM    (permalink
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Yeah... lets add "on-field issues" to the Bengals' character concern list.
I lawl'd at this.
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:25 PM    (permalink
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My thinking was if a long term deal was going to happen and hes that important to the team then the deal would have been done by now and they would not have had to franchise him. I understand the Titan fans don't want to see him go b/c they saw what the defense was like without him but you also have to look at what happens if they can't get a deal worked out and he hits FA next year and you have nothing to show for him.

ALSO, im tired of people saying the bengals can't even consider anyone that has a blip of any issue in their lifetime. How long has it been since a Bengal has been arrested?

I don't have any kind of chart but doesn't the #47 pick this year and a 2nd round next year equate to about a late first round pick? I personally think thats quite a big offer if you consider that he's only had 1 good year which was a contract year. We were going to give only a 3rd and a 5th for Shaun Rogers and I would put them both in the same category of question marks, size, ability, and such.
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:26 PM    (permalink
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Actually, he isn't going anywhere because no team will give 2 1st rounders for a player with one dominant year and his track record.
Good, we'll keep him and continue to eat team's o-lines for lunch.
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:31 PM    (permalink
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My thinking was if a long term deal was going to happen and hes that important to the team then the deal would have been done by now and they would not have had to franchise him. I understand the Titan fans don't want to see him go b/c they saw what the defense was like without him but you also have to look at what happens if they can't get a deal worked out and he hits FA next year and you have nothing to show for him.

ALSO, im tired of people saying the bengals can't even consider anyone that has a blip of any issue in their lifetime. How long has it been since a Bengal has been arrested?

I don't have any kind of chart but doesn't the #47 pick this year and a 2nd round next year equate to about a late first round pick? I personally think thats quite a big offer if you consider that he's only had 1 good year which was a contract year. We were going to give only a 3rd and a 5th for Shaun Rogers and I would put them both in the same category of question marks, size, ability, and such.
Contract negotiations aren't as easy as you make them out to be. The Titans front office probably has other issues to worry about right now. They can hold off for a while on negotiating a new contract with Haynesworth, and I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't get his new contract until either the preseason or sometime in the regular season.
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:37 PM    (permalink
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Never going to happen. Besides Bulluck hes the heart and soul of the titans defense. Would take a 1st rounder and maybe some more to get him. They will be able to sign him next year. This guy is going no where.
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Old 03-09-2008, 01:38 AM    (permalink
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Yeah... lets add "on-field issues" to the Bengals' character concern list.
"Issues"? It was one incident.

I don't see how he can be traded because the Titans would only need to use the DP on his replacement anyway. Value wise I think an early enough pick to land a Dorsey or Ellis in this class is fair, but why replace an actual pro bowler (even if it's only a very recent pro bowler) who is 26 with a unproven rookie.

The reason the Titans haven't spent big in FA besides the fact there was nothing worth spending big over is because they have 3-4 players looking for an extension this or next offseason who will command top dollar, or close to it. Right now though, they are in 2nd+ tier FA and draft mode, so I don't think AH being without a deal means anything, it's just not the best time to be doing it. They have 2 months or so after the draft to get it done (and much longer with the other players).

The difference between a Rogers and a Haynesworth is, Haynesworth was actually the driving factor behind a *good* defense. Without him the Titans D went from top 5 to bottom 10, without Rogers the Lions are not nearly as effected. 1 good year or not, the importance of a player to a team factors in on trade value as well obviously, and AH's importance was through the roof in 07. I think it would take a lot of persuading to get him in a trade. Remember, the Titans have the money to spend and it's not like he's in a situation like Briggs next to Urlacher. In the Titans D, AH *is* Urlacher. I doubt they have any qualms paying him what it costs.

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Old 03-09-2008, 04:48 AM    (permalink
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"Issues"? It was one incident.
People (Titan fans) keep saying this... so I decided to investigate:

Quote:
An incident occurred at a Titans training camp, where Haynesworth kicked his teammate, center Justin Hartwig, in the chest, and had to be restrained by other teammates.
Hmm... second kicking incident.

Yeah... you're right, though. Stomping on a players unprotected head is forgivable behavior. He only received the largest suspension related to on-field conduct in the history of the league (and has done it before)... there's no reason for concern here.
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The difference between a Rogers and a Haynesworth is, Haynesworth was actually the driving factor behind a *good* defense. Without him the Titans D went from top 5 to bottom 10, without Rogers the Lions are not nearly as effected. 1 good year or not, the importance of a player to a team factors in on trade value as well obviously, and AH's importance was through the roof in 07. I think it would take a lot of persuading to get him in a trade. Remember, the Titans have the money to spend and it's not like he's in a situation like Briggs next to Urlacher. In the Titans D, AH *is* Urlacher. I doubt they have any qualms paying him what it costs.
You obviously have no clue what you're talking about.

The Lions went 6-2 with a dominant Rogers... then, when Rogers decided to quit, finished the season 1-7. From playoff team to mid pick because of one player. I'd say he had a substantial impact.

And... Urlacher doesn't stomp on players' head/chest, so I don't see the comparison.
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Old 03-09-2008, 06:38 AM    (permalink
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People (Titan fans) keep saying this... so I decided to investigate:


Hmm... second kicking incident.

Yeah... you're right, though. Stomping on a players unprotected head is forgivable behavior. He only received the largest suspension related to on-field conduct in the history of the league (and has done it before)... there's no reason for concern here.
Not sure where I said stomping on a player's head was "forgivable behavior". The suspension was for the incident. It's not like he's the on the field version of Pacman, or that he's racked up a series of suspensions like these to qualify him as an on the field issue guy like the Bengals had in off the field issue guys. If he does something like that again to earn an on field suspension, then sure, but until then, he doesn't have 'issues'. What he did was clearly such a big deal to him, that I'd be shocked if he does anything remotely like that on an NFL field again. It was stupid as hell, but people can do stupid things and move on from them without being labelled a serial offender. Anyway, I don't really care honestly, just not sure a guy who was suspended once for an action that has clearly provided a wake up call is a player with "issues".

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You obviously have no clue what you're talking about.

The Lions went 6-2 with a dominant Rogers... then, when Rogers decided to quit, finished the season 1-7. From playoff team to mid pick because of one player. I'd say he had a substantial impact.

And... Urlacher doesn't stomp on players' head/chest, so I don't see the comparison.
I said not nearly AS effected. The Titans D with Haynesworth in was top 3, with him out, more like bottom 3. And these are raw stats talking here, not just a fan's interpretation. Rogers' impact can't top that because he wasn't making the Lions a top 3 D like Haynesworth was for the Titans. I'm sure he had a big impact, but Haynesworth's in 07 was insane in proportion. Btw, looking at Kitna's stats in the first 8 compared to the last 8 suggests he could have had just as big, if not a bigger, impact than Rogers. The Titans O was constantly poor all year - the only variable was whether AH suited up or not.

And the Urlacher comparison was *obviously* regarding his importance to their respective D's. AH is not a Lance Briggs type the team can leave to test free agency and afford to lose. Everything about the Titans D starts with Haynesworth - at least it did in 07. When he's out, KVB gets doubled, Schwartz's "Front 4 pressure 95% of the time" scheme goes to sh*t, QB's get all day, and the rest of the defenders get exposed. The Titans D in 06 was pretty terrible particularly the run D, and the only change in 07 was Fowler and Griffin, not to mention losing Pacman. Lamont Thompson was bad, but he wasn't so bad his absence propels the Titans D into the top 5 league wide. That came squarely down to AH and his emmergence as a pro bowl DT, and possibly the best DT in the NFL last season. There is a reason he isn't being close to traded for a 3rd and a 5th this offseason.
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Old 03-09-2008, 08:21 AM    (permalink
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So I take it from the jist of the Titans' fans in here now that Favre retired Albert is assuming the God Throne?
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Old 03-09-2008, 09:35 AM    (permalink
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So I take it from the jist of the Titans' fans in here now that Favre retired Albert is assuming the God Throne?
Just posting facts. Titans D was trash without AH last season, but was good enough to overcome some ridiculous offensive performances and still win games when he was in. Hell, in the Falcons game, on 4th and goal from the 1 for the game after yet another turnover in their own half, AH did a superman dive over the OL and clipped Leftwich's leg which caused him to stumble and get sacked for the win. People wanted to know how valuable he is to the Titans D, the answer is extremely valuable.
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