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Old 03-09-2008, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BigDawg819 View Post
So I take it from the jist of the Titans' fans in here now that Favre retired Albert is assuming the God Throne?
VYisAGod

nuff said.
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Old 03-09-2008, 11:16 AM    (permalink
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I would rather miami have the picks then trade for him from our perspective, soon as he gets the money he will go back to before I think
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Old 03-09-2008, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TacticaLion View Post
The Lions went 6-2 with a dominant Rogers... then, when Rogers decided to quit, finished the season 1-7. From playoff team to mid pick because of one player. I'd say he had a substantial impact.

Come on now, your not trying to tell me it was Shaun Rogers fault you guys went 6-2, and just because he played half ass down the stretch you guys went 1-7 and thats the major reason, not the fact that martz gets pass happy and abandons the run, or not the fact that kitna never had any time to throw, but yea it was all Rogers
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Old 03-09-2008, 12:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
Come on now, your not trying to tell me it was Shaun Rogers fault you guys went 6-2, and just because he played half ass down the stretch you guys went 1-7 and thats the major reason, not the fact that martz gets pass happy and abandons the run, or not the fact that kitna never had any time to throw, but yea it was all Rogers
What he said basically, it definitely wasn't all on Rogers that the Lions ship sunk past the half way mark last season. It was more on Kitna failing towards the end of the season. Lets just put it this way, Haynesworth is going no where because there are very little amount of players, and less teams that are willing to part with 2 first rounders for a player. He will get locked up long term either this preseason or next offseason, count on it. He matters the most to this defense then any one individual person
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Old 03-09-2008, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TacticaLion View Post
People (Titan fans) keep saying this... so I decided to investigate:


Hmm... second kicking incident.

Yea youre right. Haynesworth is the first player ever to get in a skirmish with a teammate at training camp. :roll:
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Old 03-09-2008, 01:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by nobodyinparticular View Post
The most dominant in one year out of 5. Before last year, Haynesworth was considered one of the bigger busts of his draft class.
I disagree with that all the ways, he had shown his talent level before but injuries and last year his stompin act that caused him alot of that season held him back IMO. Back to the ?, it would take all your picks then some before we gave up Fat Albert and his bucket of fried chicken.
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Old 03-09-2008, 01:03 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BigDawg819 View Post
So I take it from the jist of the Titans' fans in here now that Favre retired Albert is assuming the God Throne?
We have two GODs, VYisaGod and AHisaGod
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Old 03-09-2008, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by smittyjs View Post
We have two GODs, VYisaGod and AHisaGod
2 Gods and no playoff wins. Yup God doesn't matter in the NFL.... :D
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On another note, Nicklas Backstrom is amazingly good.
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Meanwhile, in hockey the other night, the Washington Capitals' Eric Belanger gets hit with a stick, loses EIGHT teeth, has an instant root canal in the locker room, comes back out and PLAYS and never says boo.

So new rule, NBA: Unless you have a root canal at halftime, SHUT UP AND PLAY!
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Old 03-09-2008, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BigDawg819 View Post
2 Gods and no playoff wins. Yup God doesn't matter in the NFL.... :D
When you have satan also on your team it doesn't help you :(
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Old 03-09-2008, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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The only way I see them trading Haynesworth is if they can move up in this year's draft with the intention to get Glenn Dorsey. So if a team picking in the top 10 or earlier would want him, they could offer up their 1st rounder for Haynesworth and possibly the Titan's 1st rounder. Are there any teams picking in the top 10 who would want him?
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Old 03-09-2008, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by indyfan1985 View Post
The only way I see them trading Haynesworth is if they can move up in this year's draft with the intention to get Glenn Dorsey. So if a team picking in the top 10 or earlier would want him, they could offer up their 1st rounder for Haynesworth and possibly the Titan's 1st rounder. Are there any teams picking in the top 10 who would want him?
I dont understand why we would trade an elite DT and a 1st to take an unproven player at the same position. That would be just plain stupid. We wouldn't even trade just Haynesworth for a first to draft a DT. Its like the cowboys trading their two picks and Barber to get McFadden. Why would you trade a player at a need position to draft a player of the same position? Then it doesn't fill a need. It justs puts you in more of a hole.
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Old 03-09-2008, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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There's risks involved with Fat Al, but if I was the Titans I'd ask a lot for him.....probably along the lines of what would be considered too much. Very, very few guys who can play like him. If I'm the Titans, I take the risk as opposed to hoping to find a similar replacement.
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Old 03-09-2008, 05:48 PM    (permalink
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Fat Al has his own after shave AH92
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Old 03-09-2008, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
Come on now, your not trying to tell me it was Shaun Rogers fault you guys went 6-2, and just because he played half ass down the stretch you guys went 1-7 and thats the major reason, not the fact that martz gets pass happy and abandons the run, or not the fact that kitna never had any time to throw, but yea it was all Rogers
Yeah... I think Rogers was the major reason. When he decided to sit on the sidelines or jog around the field, he left a huge hole at the position. Not only did our pass-rush suffer without him, but our run defense also suffered. The offense didn't change... Martz (and Kitna) were doing the same things in the first 8 that they did in the last 8. The defense fell apart, and the defense was led by Rogers.

This isn't only my opinion:
Quote:
For all of Shaun Rogers' faults, and there were many, when he had his head on straight (which wasn't often) he was a dominating defensive tackle. Last season, when the Lions were winning and showing life, so was Rogers, and he was getting sacks, and blocking field goals, and even scoring a touchdown on a long run back. Then Rogers faded and likely not coincidentally, so did the Lions, and we were left without another lost season.
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Originally Posted by OzTitan
Not sure where I said stomping on a player's head was "forgivable behavior". The suspension was for the incident. It's not like he's the on the field version of Pacman, or that he's racked up a series of suspensions like these to qualify him as an on the field issue guy like the Bengals had in off the field issue guys. If he does something like that again to earn an on field suspension, then sure, but until then, he doesn't have 'issues'. What he did was clearly such a big deal to him, that I'd be shocked if he does anything remotely like that on an NFL field again. It was stupid as hell, but people can do stupid things and move on from them without being labelled a serial offender. Anyway, I don't really care honestly, just not sure a guy who was suspended once for an action that has clearly provided a wake up call is a player with "issues".
I never said you said it was "forgivable behavior"... but I'm not so quick to toss it in the rear view mirror (as some coaches probably aren't). He stomped on a teammate and stomped on the face of an opponent... it isn't an isolated incident and shouldn't be forgotten.

For the record: a lot of the Bengals' arrests involved drugs (and some, traffic violations). And, although some of them only happened once, they're still brought up (as you've brought them up). I'm much less concerned about Marijuana possession than I am stomping on a player's unprotected face.

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Originally Posted by Cashmoneydrew
Yea youre right. Haynesworth is the first player ever to get in a skirmish with a teammate at training camp.
That wasn't the point... at all. Try to follow it this time:

Titans' fans keep saying how the face stomp was ONE incident... yet he stomped on a teammate during training camp. So, the stomping wasn't only one incident, but happened more than once. Considering 99% of the players in the NFL last their entire career without stomping on a player, and Haynesworth has done it twice, I'd call it an "issue".

Believe what you will: teams haven't forgotten the incident, and probably wont.
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Old 03-09-2008, 07:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Cashmoneydrew View Post
You need to wake up. 2 2nd rounders for argueably the most dominant defensive presence in the NFL? 2 1st rounders might get you a maybe. Our defense is **** without him so we will definitely keep him for this year and do everything we can to retain him longer. We have incredible cap so that's no problem.
The most dominant defensive presence in the NFL? A guy who finally performed in a contract year? If Haynesworth is the most dominant defensive presence in the NFL then the defensive talent in the league has gone to ****.
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Old 03-09-2008, 07:24 PM    (permalink
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for all his issues, hes only human and ive had anger management and i tell you now, im not a bad guy, but in the heat of the moment you will do questionable and shocking things through blind rage, i can see where he came from and i can understand so i put it behind me, as for the contract thing i think thats horse **** hes grown up since the stomping incident, he said how he realised it was the best thing for him and his family especially his daughter
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Old 03-09-2008, 08:21 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TacticaLion
Actually, he isn't going anywhere because no team will give 2 1st rounders for a player with one dominant year and his track record.
Not true! I'm sure we could coax the Redskins and the Raiders into some sort of an agreement. ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lost33cause
My thinking was if a long term deal was going to happen and hes that important to the team then the deal would have been done by now and they would not have had to franchise him. I understand the Titan fans don't want to see him go b/c they saw what the defense was like without him but you also have to look at what happens if they can't get a deal worked out and he hits FA next year and you have nothing to show for him.

ALSO, im tired of people saying the bengals can't even consider anyone that has a blip of any issue in their lifetime. How long has it been since a Bengal has been arrested?

I don't have any kind of chart but doesn't the #47 pick this year and a 2nd round next year equate to about a late first round pick? I personally think thats quite a big offer if you consider that he's only had 1 good year which was a contract year. We were going to give only a 3rd and a 5th for Shaun Rogers and I would put them both in the same category of question marks, size, ability, and such.
They were in contract talks before FA, but it was going slow. The FO didn't want to be distracted by Haynesworth's contract negotiations, so they used the Franchise Tag, which allows them to basically just postpone the contract negotiation. You have to factor that we had a few prominent FA's to try to re-sign (Odom, Bell, and LaBoy), we had to schedule visits and pursue other FA's, and also work out the largest contract for a DT in the history of the NFL.

If we were just evaluating Haynesworth as a player, I'd say a 1st and a 3rd/ two 2nd RD picks would be adequate value, based on Rogers and Stroud's trades. But due to the impact that Haynesworth has on our success, we couldn't lose him without receiving something that would give us equal impact to that of Haynesworth's.

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An incident occurred at a Titans training camp, where Haynesworth kicked his teammate, center Justin Hartwig, in the chest, and had to be restrained by other teammates.
Who's the source for this? Since the quote is out of context, I don't know if Haynesworth was a provoked, as Hartwig is a punk and always has been. If the kick to Hartwig's chest was out of revenge like the kick to Gurode's head (Gurode went after Haynesworth's knees twice, if memory serves me correctly), then it's still just an anger issue, which he's gotten under control due to therapy. Haynesworth isn't PacMan. Don't make him out to be.

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Originally Posted by TacticaLion
And... Urlacher doesn't stomp on players' head/chest, so I don't see the comparison.
He's talking about the impact of the players on the field, and that they're not made to look better by playing next to a superior players. You know that, so go take your witch hunt elsewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDawg891
So I take it from the jist of the Titans' fans in here now that Favre retired Albert is assuming the God Throne?
Unfortunately, no... only John Madden can make that decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cashmoneydrew
Yea youre right. Haynesworth is the first player ever to get in a skirmish with a teammate at training camp. :roll:
Vince Young and Donnie Nickey are menaces to society, and for the good of man kind, should be disbarred from the NFL. Indeed, Young and Vick have many things in common. Training camp skirmishes and dog fighting... both felonies in my eyes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by smittyjs
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodyinparticular
The most dominant in one year out of 5. Before last year, Haynesworth was considered one of the bigger busts of his draft class.
I disagree with that all the ways, he had shown his talent level before but injuries and last year his stompin act that caused him alot of that season held him back IMO. Back to the ?, it would take all your picks then some before we gave up Fat Albert and his bucket of fried chicken.
I agree with this. Fat Al has always had injury problems which have held him back. And if you watched our team in '06, the DEF improved with a healthy Haynesworth's return. He's been our best DT for the past few years, and if you thought he was a bust because he hadn't been to multiple Pro Bowls in his first few years, then the viewer must have held naive expectations. Haynesworth's time of maturity isn't later than normal, given his history of mild injuries and long suspension last year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cashmoneydrew
I dont understand why we would trade an elite DT and a 1st to take an unproven player at the same position. That would be just plain stupid. We wouldn't even trade just Haynesworth for a first to draft a DT. Its like the cowboys trading their two picks and Barber to get McFadden. Why would you trade a player at a need position to draft a player of the same position? Then it doesn't fill a need. It justs puts you in more of a hole.
Haynesworth is better for our DEF than Dorsey or Ellis. Finding a player who can play NT in our DEF AND can be as dominant as Haynesworth is extremely rare. An 85% healthy Haynesworth is more valuable to us than a 100% healthy Dorsey at UT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TacticaLion
That wasn't the point... at all. Try to follow it this time:

Titans' fans keep saying how the face stomp was ONE incident... yet he stomped on a teammate during training camp. So, the stomping wasn't only one incident, but happened more than once. Considering 99% of the players in the NFL last their entire career without stomping on a player, and Haynesworth has done it twice, I'd call it an "issue".

Believe what you will: teams haven't forgotten the incident, and probably wont.
For someone who's mocking someone else's reading comprehension, you're a lil slow to the point too, aren't ya buddy?

You paste a quote without linking it to anything, forcing us to believe that Al kicked a notorious jerk in training camp (Was Hartwig defenseless, was Al provoked, etc.). It holds less water than you make it out to be, unless there's more to the story that you have chosen not to show us.

Nevertheless, Al's attended multiple anger management sessions, and so far, has yet to be involved in any type of dispute. Then, he has the most dominant performance by a DT in a season. That alone will draw interest.

We're not saying the dude doesn't have baggage. We're just saying that you're not making a subjective argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TacticaLion
I'm much less concerned about Marijuana possession than I am stomping on a player's unprotected face.
I really hope you're not serious about this... If you are, you've lost a lot of credibility in this argument...
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Damn Ke$ha is sexy.

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Old 03-09-2008, 08:37 PM    (permalink
TacticaLion
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Originally Posted by TitanHope View Post
Who's the source for this?
NBC Sports:
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Originally Posted by NBC Sports
Keyshawn rips temperamental Haynesworth
‘I wouldn't want him on my team,’ Panthers WR says of suspended Titan.

CHARLOTTE, N.C. - Justin Hartwig saw the replay of Albert Haynesworth kicking a player in the head and wasn’t surprised.

For good reason: The Carolina Panthers’ center was a victim of Haynesworth’s temper three years ago.

The Tennessee Titans defensive tackle was suspended five games — the longest suspension for an on-field incident in NFL history — for twice stomping on the head of Dallas center Andre Gurode on Sunday. Gurode, who lost his helmet, required 30 stitches to repair gashes on his face.

“It’s kind of unimaginable to think a football player could do that to another football player, but knowing Albert and what he’s done in the past, it really didn’t surprise me at all,” Hartwig said Wednesday. “I wouldn’t put anything past that guy.”

In 2003, when Hartwig played with the Titans, he saw Haynesworth’s temper up close.

“It was the first couple of days of training camp I had been beating him in one-on-one drills. I had stopped him in a bull-rush pass rush drill. When he let up I dropped to my knees and he kicked me in the chest,” Hartwig said. “I grabbed his foot when he kicked me, and another offensive lineman came in and cleaned him out.

“You don’t disrespect another player or a teammate like that.”

Haynesworth’s actions were a hot topic in the Panthers’ locker room Wednesday, with the theme being that Haynesworth violated football’s unwritten code of ethics.

“I wouldn’t want him on my team,” veteran receiver Keyshawn Johnson said. “That’s just me. I don’t condone it. I don’t think it’s cool. If somebody did that on this team when I was here, I’d tell (owner Jerry Richardson) the same thing, ’I don’t want him on my team. I’m not going to play with a dude doing that on my team.”’

Hartwig stressed it was not an isolated incident and he never got along with Haynesworth while he was in Tennessee.

“I never really talked to him. He’s the kind of guy I stayed away from. He loses his mind sometimes,” said Hartwig, who signed a free-agent deal with Carolina in the offseason. “When he’s getting beat, he tends to lose control of his emotions. He gets irrational and doesn’t think straight.

“He would lose his cool and hit somebody after the play, stuff like that when they’re not looking. I got into it with him almost every year.”

Hartwig said Haynesworth was reprimanded several times by the Titans for practice scuffles that were kept from the media. That history is one reason Hartwig questioned the length of his suspension.

“I don’t think it’s outside the realm of possibility to suspend him for the whole season,” Hartwig said. “It’s the most intentional thing to hurt somebody I’ve ever seen. That crosses every sports and moral boundary you can think of.”

Hartwig returned to practice Wednesday for the first time since suffering a pulled groin in the season-opening loss to Atlanta. He’s listed as questionable for Sunday’s game against Cleveland.

But while Hartwig was hopeful he’d return Sunday, he wasn’t sure if Haynesworth has much of a future in the NFL.

“Sometimes a guy never learns,” Hartwig said.
It really isn't hard to do the research yourself... just go to google and type in "haynesworth kicked hartwig" (or anything close to it)... it's right there.

Read it... then make your own decision.
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Originally Posted by TitanHope
I really hope you're not serious about this... If you are, you've lost a lot of credibility in this argument...
Oh whatever. Credibility? From you? Keep it.

I'd rather have a player that wants to smoke marijuana than a player that will stomp on a player's unprotected head when he gets mad. Football is a game of passion, and Haynesworth (apparently) can't control his.

How many players in the history of the NFL have smoked marijuana (or have gotten caught for it)? How many have stomped on another player's head? Call me crazy... claim that I've lost "credibility"... do whatever makes you feel good. I'd rather have a stoner than a thug.
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Old 03-09-2008, 08:45 PM    (permalink
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“I never really talked to him. He’s the kind of guy I stayed away from. He loses his mind sometimes,” said Hartwig, who signed a free-agent deal with Carolina in the offseason. “When he’s getting beat, he tends to lose control of his emotions. He gets irrational and doesn’t think straight.

i think its hard for people who have never suffered from anger problems to understand, when you look back you can see the wrong of your actions but during the moment your only thinking about venting your anger on the cause of it. councelling helped me and now im alot better but still not perfect, i dont hold anything against him as a person because ive been there so i can understand whats going on in his head so im glad i got that guy on my team because he really isnt a bad dude
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Old 03-09-2008, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by stephenson86 View Post
“I never really talked to him. He’s the kind of guy I stayed away from. He loses his mind sometimes,” said Hartwig, who signed a free-agent deal with Carolina in the offseason. “When he’s getting beat, he tends to lose control of his emotions. He gets irrational and doesn’t think straight.

i think its hard for people who have never suffered from anger problems to understand, when you look back you can see the wrong of your actions but during the moment your only thinking about venting your anger on the cause of it. councelling helped me and now im alot better but still not perfect, i dont hold anything against him as a person because ive been there so i can understand whats going on in his head so im glad i got that guy on my team because he really isnt a bad dude
I don't hate Haynesworth and I don't think he's a horrible player... but he's an angry person playing an angry game. He has a hard time controlling his anger and will constantly be put into situations that can set him off.

Once again, he isn't a bad person... but he has a problem. And, when you mix that problem with the aggression of the NFL, it becomes a big problem. It's almost a matter of "when" he goes off again and not "if".

One more serious incident and he could be out of football... is it worth it?
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Old 03-09-2008, 08:57 PM    (permalink
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there wont be another serious incident IMO

i cant remember where i read it but i was reading something he said and basically he was saying that he didnt want his daughter to grow up with an angry dad who does the things he has done (grudoe?sp)

basically he realised he had to becoem much more responsible and has taken his career very seriously ever since, with the suspension training, all of the anger management classes, i think hes doing a sean taylor (RIP) where by hes turning the corner maturity wise and the effects were obvious, taylor upped his game and lived up to his incredible potential and haynesworth from what we saw this season has done the same, hopefuly it continues

he is the heart of our defense and jeff fisher said he aint going anywhere so i guess hes gonna be a titan for a long while
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Old 03-09-2008, 09:08 PM    (permalink
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Gurode and Haynesworth are friends now, so their is no bad blood between the two, they were hanging out at the pro bowl and Gurode was saying its behind them and Haynesworth is a good guy.

Although Ill be the first to admit it was scary, I was watching that game as it happened and it easily could of ended alot worse, when you think about the football player who lost his eyesight and career to a referee flag, you can see permanent injury or death to a cleat to the face...Im glad it worked out the way it did, was a very scary play seeing Gurode's head exposed.
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Old 03-10-2008, 02:11 AM    (permalink
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That wasn't the point... at all. Try to follow it this time:

Titans' fans keep saying how the face stomp was ONE incident... yet he stomped on a teammate during training camp. So, the stomping wasn't only one incident, but happened more than once. Considering 99% of the players in the NFL last their entire career without stomping on a player, and Haynesworth has done it twice, I'd call it an "issue".

Believe what you will: teams haven't forgotten the incident, and probably wont.
I did follow you, but you didnt follow me. Ive said many players get into fights in training camps. It happens about every other day. Its to be expected with the heat. Training camp skirmishes dont count as incidents. And how do you know the stomping happened more than once? The article you posted said he kicked a player.

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Originally Posted by kmartin575 View Post
The most dominant defensive presence in the NFL? A guy who finally performed in a contract year? If Haynesworth is the most dominant defensive presence in the NFL then the defensive talent in the league has gone to ****.
Its obvious you've probably only watched Haynesworth play a few times in his career if even. In fact im willing to bet you are making this statement based on stats. If you watched Haynesworth at all this season you would know that he was the most dominant defensive force. Hes one of the main reasons LaBoy and Odom got overpayed this offseason. He probably would've won defensive MVP had he played a couple more games.
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Old 03-10-2008, 02:28 AM    (permalink
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I did follow you, but you didnt follow me. Ive said many players get into fights in training camps. It happens about every other day. Its to be expected with the heat. Training camp skirmishes dont count as incidents. And how do you know the stomping happened more than once? The article you posted said he kicked a player.



Its obvious you've probably only watched Haynesworth play a few times in his career if even. In fact im willing to bet you are making this statement based on stats. If you watched Haynesworth at all this season you would know that he was the most dominant defensive force. Hes one of the main reasons LaBoy and Odom got overpayed this offseason. He probably would've won defensive MVP had he played a couple more games.
Sorry but that is still just your opinion, AND the opinion of a fan of the team he plays for. Not exactly a credible opinion IMO. You could make a case for guys like Freeney and Tommie Harris being more dominant defensive forces when healthy.

And one season of great play does not make a player the most dominant in the league. Countless other players have played above and beyond when their contract was on the line.

Sorry but i'm not buying it. Until this season Haynesworth was just a face in the crowd.
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Old 03-10-2008, 03:10 AM    (permalink
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I'm about as unbiased on this as you can get so here's my two cents:

Not sure what the big deal is with "off the field issues" and Haynesworth. The stomping was horrible and unforgivable but he has kept his act clean and everyone deserves and 2nd chance. Other then that stomping, he's never really done anything else except for all the rumbling about his bad attitude. As long as he plays the way he did last season, no one will care about his attitude.

On the flip side, Titan fans seem to be severly overrating him. He's been average thru his entire career until last season and considered somewhat of a malcontent until his play came around. While you Titan fans are all saying he ahs turned a corner in his life and is a better person, you don't know that for sure. He could have very well dropped the malcontent label simply because people were willing to ignore it with his play being at such a high level. You guys are just throwing your opinion out there that he has turned the corner and that his value is thru the roof but fact is that you don't know that for sure and teams don't trade based on the opinion that he turned the corner, they trade based on what he has done and what he can do for them.

All that said, You've got a guy that was dominant last season. One of the 3 best DL in the league last season. He is still young and could anchor a line for years to come. Those players don't grow on trees and hold a good amount of value. However, he comes with his fair share of questions. Has he really gotten past the malcontent phase or were people willing to overlook it based on his play? Is he really the total package or was last year a fluke and a by product of being in a contract year? Which is the real Haynesworth, the average, big body for the 1st couple years of his career, or the dominating, QB wrecker that took the field last season?

Too many questions for him to be worth 2 1sts the way Titan fans are stating but I don't see why, with his value being at it's peak, he couldn't fetched a solid mid 1st round pick from a team like Carolina.

I really feel like too many people are split on him here. Non Titan fans bring up the stomping and try to say he is worth way less then he is and Titan fans act as if he's the 2nd coming of Reggie White and hype him as a world beater when he really only has one good year to go with rumored attitude problems and average play during the rest of his career. His value is lower then Titan fans are saying and higher then some other guys on here are giving him credit for.
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