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Old 03-14-2008, 06:30 PM    (permalink
Dam8610
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Originally Posted by BroadwayJoe10 View Post
Very true, and i don't have the exact contract numbers, but from what i've been told, tannenbaum has left himself some outs. He's the one who got us out of the crazy mess bradway put us in and got us 25 million under in a matter of 2 seasons. I guess we'll have to wait for the end of the year in order to see if they pan on.
Well, that's the smart way to do FA contracts. Roster bonuses are the best cap trick I know of, as they can be averted (by release), amortized (by conversion to signing bonus), or paid, depending on the need of the cap situation. Other than cash over cap, it's probably the best way to work around the cap. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying testing the free agent market is a bad idea, just that it comes at a lot higher risk than a draft pick 9 times out of 10.

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By the way, I was looking over the old pictures again and this one you posted was the funniest one i've ever seen on this site.


Ah, yes, that was a classic. I wish I could take credit for it, but that came courtesy of another Colts fan over at a Colts board I frequent, the url of which I would post, but I don't want to infringe on the rules of this site. I wonder if Ricky Manning Jr. has ever seen that picture...
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Old 03-14-2008, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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First, with the way the cap is increasing, these contracts aren't really that bad.
Second, you have to be in ridiculously horrible cap situation prior to the new labor agreement to not be under the cap by 10+ million, so the fact that the Jets got under by 25 in 2 seasons isn't that big of a deal IMO.
Third, I don't see how these moves will suddenly make the Jets a contender. Nearly all the Steeler fans I've heard have said Faneca was overrated last year and past his prime. Kris Jenkins is a huge question mark, and Calvin Pace a smaller one.
Add to the fact that I'm not impressed with their QB's, I see an average season upcoming.
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Old 03-14-2008, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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First, with the way the cap is increasing, these contracts aren't really that bad.
Second, you have to be in ridiculously horrible cap situation prior to the new labor agreement to not be under the cap by 10+ million, so the fact that the Jets got under by 25 in 2 seasons isn't that big of a deal IMO.
Third, I don't see how these moves will suddenly make the Jets a contender. Nearly all the Steeler fans I've heard have said Faneca was overrated last year and past his prime. Kris Jenkins is a huge question mark, and Calvin Pace a smaller one.
Add to the fact that I'm not impressed with their QB's, I see an average season upcoming.
I agree that Faneca is overrated, Fitz's contract helped the Cardinals dodge that bullet. Jenkins is a huge question mark, apparently he ended last year at 390 and there is a clause in the contract that he has to make weight every pay check, as for Pace I think he will be fine, did they overpay for him? Yes. But he is solid as a 3-4 OLB and I would expect another 90 tackle 8 sack season
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Old 03-14-2008, 06:54 PM    (permalink
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Ah, yes, that was a classic. I wish I could take credit for it, but that came courtesy of another Colts fan over at a Colts board I frequent, the url of which I would post, but I don't want to infringe on the rules of this site. I wonder if Ricky Manning Jr. has ever seen that picture...
I don't think he has... he's probably drawing...
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Old 03-14-2008, 08:22 PM    (permalink
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Nearly all the Steeler fans I've heard have said Faneca was overrated last year and past his prime.
What are they going to say? "We're losing an important part of our team that's going to hurt us"? No fan is going to say that unless it's blatantly obvious. IMO Faneca was upset that the Steelers didn't want to extend him and mailed it in last year. I wouldn't at all be surprised to see him have a Pro Bowl caliber year.

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I don't think he has... he's probably drawing...
Yeah, probably. After all, he has a crayon.
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Old 03-14-2008, 08:25 PM    (permalink
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I think the jets may be throwing out a little too much $$$ but at this point in time who isnt? Look at Al Davis....old man threw 50 big ones at Tommy Kelly. But i'll hold judgment until i see results.

as a sidenote...in madden when you buy all the bomb players your team will go like 4-12 if you simulate....so FA isnt very good.....they must do it on purpose to screw you over :S
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Old 03-14-2008, 08:32 PM    (permalink
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What are they going to say? "We're losing an important part of our team that's going to hurt us"? No fan is going to say that unless it's blatantly obvious. IMO Faneca was upset that the Steelers didn't want to extend him and mailed it in last year. I wouldn't at all be surprised to see him have a Pro Bowl caliber year.



Yeah, probably. After all, he has a crayon.
Very true. I heard an interview with faneca's agent saying the steelers offered him a million less than what the jets did, but he felt disrespected by them having to wait so long. If that's true than the steelers didn't think he wasn't worth retaining, but than again it's all heresay, so i don't know whether it's true or not.
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Old 03-14-2008, 09:10 PM    (permalink
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I think the jets may be throwing out a little too much $$$ but at this point in time who isnt? Look at Al Davis....old man threw 50 big ones at Tommy Kelly. But i'll hold judgment until i see results.

as a sidenote...in madden when you buy all the bomb players your team will go like 4-12 if you simulate....so FA isnt very good.....they must do it on purpose to screw you over :S
The Redskins.

I'm glad we 'sat out' this free agency. A lot of mediocre players got payed BIG bucks.
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Old 03-14-2008, 09:33 PM    (permalink
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I like some of it, dislike some of it. I think theyve done a terrific job in the draft, and trying to fill holes in FA is just not a great winning formula in my eyes.

The biggest issue i have is that theyre all short term solutions. All the "issues" they have will arise very quickly again, so its not like they won't still have to address them via the draft.

The oline signings are good, but again short term and thats alot of money in a short term solution. Also Jenkins, well they had to do something. And there really were no NTs in the draft. The thing though is, thats putting a lot of faith in an injury prone washed up guy like Jenkins. He should play better than Robertson did, but its still a high risk move bc of his health concerns.

Theyre still in position to really improve their team, because the draft is around the corner. Jets fans just better hope they do the right thing and draft a pass rusher at 6, and perhaps a dlinemen in round 2. They don't need a RB.

They also need a CB.
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Old 03-14-2008, 09:50 PM    (permalink
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True, free agency is mostly short term solutions, which is why usually teams near the top of the draft sign most of the players. Sometimes a team needs a short term solution to a need so that they can focus on another need in the draft, then come back and address the other need in a later draft.
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Old 03-14-2008, 09:54 PM    (permalink
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True, free agency is mostly short term solutions, which is why usually teams near the top of the draft sign most of the players. Sometimes a team needs a short term solution to a need so that they can focus on another need in the draft, then come back and address the other need in a later draft.
i think the main issue is, when you invest legit money in short term solutions, its detrimental to your team long term because now it becomes harder to extend the promising young talent you develop on your team.

and when you lose those guys in FA, you just accelerate the problem, and keep going in circles. its just better building through the draft. look at all the good teams in the NFL, the majority have been built through the draft.

I look at GB as a great example. You suffer for a couple of years, but then develop your team to be competitive for a long time when you do it the right way.
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Old 03-16-2008, 03:14 AM    (permalink
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No I think the Jets had a great draft last year and the year before. That's the thing I don't get. It's as if they lost their confidence in the draft and just threw a bunch of money around for no reason.

The only signing I liked was Faneca purely as a value signing, but it's really with an emphasis on the now, and the now to me isn't even in the playoffs, let alone competing for a title.
How'd they lose confidence in the draft? It's not like we handed away our draft picks, we still have them.
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Old 03-16-2008, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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Well, they can add on bubba franks to the list.

"Jets agreed to terms with TE Bubba Franks, formerly of the Packers.
Franks, 30, caught 18 passes for 132 yards (7.2 YPC) and three TDs in 2007 as Donald Lee's backup. He's slowed down quite a bit, but can still help in the run game. Franks will be the Jets' No. 2 tight end behind Chris Baker."


It seems as though mangini is dead set on running a multiple TE set and being able to oppose his will on other teams dline in the running game. Oline needed help, but now a pretty good runblocking TE and tony richardson, it seems as though he's not content running trick plays on 3rd&4th and short and wants to be able to pick them up by playing a little hardnosed football.
It's also a pretty telling sign that he wants to gain a little height in the redzone as well; utecht was 6'6 and franks is 6'6, i would imagine carlson or rucker would fit in nice in the later rounds.
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Old 03-16-2008, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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I like some of it, dislike some of it. I think theyve done a terrific job in the draft, and trying to fill holes in FA is just not a great winning formula in my eyes.

The biggest issue i have is that theyre all short term solutions. All the "issues" they have will arise very quickly again, so its not like they won't still have to address them via the draft.

The oline signings are good, but again short term and thats alot of money in a short term solution. Also Jenkins, well they had to do something. And there really were no NTs in the draft. The thing though is, thats putting a lot of faith in an injury prone washed up guy like Jenkins. He should play better than Robertson did, but its still a high risk move bc of his health concerns.

Theyre still in position to really improve their team, because the draft is around the corner. Jets fans just better hope they do the right thing and draft a pass rusher at 6, and perhaps a dlinemen in round 2. They don't need a RB.

They also need a CB.
I think the big thing that makes them such big FA winners is the fact that they didn't throw around nearly as much money as it seems. Everyone sees the big contracts but they don't realize that most of that money, the player's won't ever see. The Calvin Pace signing is the only one where I think you could legitimately argue that the Jets invested too much money in, but I think he can be very successful, so time will tell. Faneca's not gunna see half the money he got probably, Kris Jenkins is not necessarily going to see his full contract paid out, but if he plays the way I expect he will, then wouldn't we as Jets fans want him to see his whole contract? Tannenbaum's an absolute cap genius and I'm not in the least bit worried about our cap situation, we're still 4.5 million under the cap (prior to the Bubba Franks signing). If you remember, the Jets were roughly 16.5 over the cap just two years ago, and now look at them...
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Old 03-16-2008, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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It really seems like the Jets are loading up for a run, but they don't have a QB. Is all this spending just to make the Clemmens transition easier?
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Old 03-16-2008, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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It really seems like the Jets are loading up for a run, but they don't have a QB. Is all this spending just to make the Clemmens transition easier?
The jets have/had one of the youngest teams in the NFL and these signings, I would imagine, are more to better the team than irrational spendings to win this year or next. It was obvious we needed help on the Oline, which was addressed with Woody and Faneca. Signing richardson and franks leads me to beleive we are going to be employing a run heavy multiple TE set this season.

Pace/Woody/Jenkins and Faneca will all hopefully be around for 3+ years. This gives us this years draft and an additional 3+ drafts to not only take care of the #2 CB spot, WR and DE spot that are needs now, but to draft Oline and Dline help to learn under and take over for these vets. I fully beleive we are in a win now mode, but not one where we mortgaged our future in order to do so. We have every pick in this years draft minus our 3rd and 5th rounder; we did pick up an extra 4th rounder as well as the possiblity for a 2nd or 3rd next year.

I like the moves as of now, because the guaranteed money isn't as great as it once seemed. It gives us flexibility going into the draft and i really have no idea what direction we are going.
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Old 03-16-2008, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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The jets have/had one of the youngest teams in the NFL and these signings, I would imagine, are more to better the team than irrational spendings to win this year or next. It was obvious we needed help on the Oline, which was addressed with Woody and Faneca. Signing richardson and franks leads me to beleive we are going to be employing a run heavy multiple TE set this season.

Pace/Woody/Jenkins and Faneca will all hopefully be around for 3+ years. This gives us this years draft and an additional 3+ drafts to not only take care of the #2 CB spot, WR and DE spot that are needs now, but to draft Oline and Dline help to learn under and take over for these vets. I fully beleive we are in a win now mode, but not one where we mortgaged our future in order to do so. We have every pick in this years draft minus our 3rd and 5th rounder; we did pick up an extra 4th rounder as well as the possiblity for a 2nd or 3rd next year.

I like the moves as of now, because the guaranteed money isn't as great as it once seemed. It gives us flexibility going into the draft and i really have no idea what direction we are going.
Couldn't have said it better myself...
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Old 03-17-2008, 05:44 PM    (permalink
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The Jets signings were ones that they thought about. They had to many holes, and mis judged the talent level last year. They had a great coaching staff and do a great job in the draft, this is not hurting them in any way. The only way it hurts them is if they don't resign Kerry Rhodes to a long term because of it, which they will. Mike Tannenbaum the Jets GM is a cap genius, he knows how to work the cap. He is not a horrible GM, he is actually one of the brightest GM in the game IMO only being a 3 year GM.
Mangini I think is the real deal at HC, he knows his stuff. The contracts weren't as bad as people think, Jenkins only has 9 mil guaranteed. Remember Jenkins wasn't happy with the Panthers, he is happy now and motivated, he is going to be at all the voluntary workouts and mini camps. He can potentially revive his career this year.

Faneca brings us a vet on the OL that can help Ferguson and Mangold more. We go from the worst OG in the NFL last year in Adrien Clarke, to one of the top OG in the league. Woody play good at RT last year, and once again he is a happy player and remotivated, and could revive his career.
The Jets did not hurt themselves, they just wanted a more competitive team in 08. They were in most games with out the right personal for a 3-4 defense, and lack of talent on the OL. Kellen Clemens is a 3rd year QB, he showed tons of talent last year, his stats are misleading, if you watched him you would see also that he has a legitment chance at being a successful QB in this league. He has a big arm and is smart, doesn't make a lot of mental mistakes, most of his mistakes were due to a poor OL and bad targets. Coles wasn't even healthy last year.
Jets had a young team before these signings, they just added some vets, I don't agree with Pace signing, but the Jets are a team that like to draft BAP rather then need, because they believe drafting on need causes more BUST.
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Old 03-18-2008, 12:50 PM    (permalink
portermvp84
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It just kinda of seems that their spending big bucks on average FA's. I've notcie the guys that they have brought in are up there in age. But I have them over Buffalo and Miami still.
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Old 03-18-2008, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by portermvp84 View Post
It just kinda of seems that their spending big bucks on average FA's. I've notcie the guys that they have brought in are up there in age. But I have them over Buffalo and Miami still.
Its better paying big Bucks for Faneca then some of the average OG that got huge deals last year like Derrick Dockery. They didn't really spend as much as people think, the first contracts that was reported were BS, the only guy that really got huge money was Faneca, and he is a 7 time pro bowler.

Also whats with the Raiders?? Signing Tommy Kelly to make him the highest paid DT in the NFL, or signing Javon Walker to that kind of contract even though he has terrible knees.
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