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Old 03-20-2008, 09:00 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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I just don't feel the Raiders need to have Pro Bowler talent at every position on defense. Richardson is solid against the run and gets a bit of push in rushing the passer. Kelly is being a little underestimated it seems due to the general dislike for his contract. Burgess is not as bad as everyone seems to think against the run. He didn't exactly lose a step last year--he was injured and trying to play through it. It was his calf I believe. Of course it was his injury history that brought him to Oakland in the first place on a deal that didn't place him in the top 10 DEs in the league. A healthy Burgess should be back to double digit sacks. Can he be healthy? That's a bit of a question, but until he has another injury-ridden year you have to expect him to bring the QB down 11-14 times again in 2008.

To fill that hole at DT, all the Raiders need is one fat body--you can get one in the 4th round, 6th round or waiver wire. Heck, Hall's buddy Grady Jackson is still on the market. He'd be better than nothing. And putting Sands back into a rotation should keep his motor warm a little better, hence better production.

Burgess can be a top 10 DE again. Kelly has the potential to bring 8-ish sacks playing inside full-time. That's two above-average to very-good defensive linemen. Richardson won't win a Pro Bowl spot, but he will help stop the run and bring admirable pressure on 1st and 2nd down. From there, (assuming a 2-gap DT pickup) the Raiders need only find another waiver wire nickel pass rusher like Clemons whom they found last year.
what in your opinion, was the reason why that defense underachieved so much last year? as you probably know, I felt they couldve been a playoff team last year, but 2 things i was hoping for went against me, and that was the defense being very good, and the qb being good enough to manage the game. neither of those things happened. if they just had even one of those 2 fall their way, with all the close games they lost this year, it couldve happened. but hey, as Parcells says, they don't give trophies for trying. :(
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Old 03-20-2008, 09:06 PM    (permalink
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The thing that would help the Raiders the most is the mind set that they can win its not just about who the players are they need to eat what the team is cooking believe.
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Old 03-21-2008, 12:57 AM    (permalink
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The #1 overall pick got just over $30 million last year. Gaines Adams had just over $18.5 million in guarantees at #4 overall. They certainly won't have to give $25 million to anyone this year. Signing Asomugha to a deal would relieve cap stress (by lowering his cap number this year). And Derrick Burgess can prove that he won't be out-produced by a waiver wire pickup before he gets a new contract. The Raiders gave him far more money than he deserved when he first signed with them, he can play for a little less than he deserves a couple years.
So maybe he won't get $25 million but with bonuses going up every year he will likely get anywhere between $20-22 million.

And how would signing Asomugha relieve cap stress? People have said that the Raiders are $19 million over the cap and whether that is true or not i'm pretty sure that number doesn't even include Asomugha's exclusive franchise tag because until he has signed it it is not counting against the cap. Not to mention that I am sure Asomugha will command even more than the $70 million Hall got.

Until Burgess can prove he won't be outproduced? Well considering you lost that guy that supposedly outproduced him who is going to do it now? You guys have nobody else worth a damn at the defensive end position. You can go ahead and draft Long or Gholston but that still leaves you with an unproven rookie and nobody at the other spot without Long.

Why should Burgess play for cheap for a couple of more years? He is closing in on 30, isn't he? He understands his chance to get that big contract is shrinking. Why should he sit back and watch average players like Gibril Wilson and Tommy Kelly get huge money even though neither one is a pro bowler while he has made a pro bowl and is making squat?
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Old 03-21-2008, 12:59 AM    (permalink
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I just don't feel the Raiders need to have Pro Bowler talent at every position on defense. Richardson is solid against the run and gets a bit of push in rushing the passer. Kelly is being a little underestimated it seems due to the general dislike for his contract. Burgess is not as bad as everyone seems to think against the run. He didn't exactly lose a step last year--he was injured and trying to play through it. It was his calf I believe. Of course it was his injury history that brought him to Oakland in the first place on a deal that didn't place him in the top 10 DEs in the league. A healthy Burgess should be back to double digit sacks. Can he be healthy? That's a bit of a question, but until he has another injury-ridden year you have to expect him to bring the QB down 11-14 times again in 2008.

To fill that hole at DT, all the Raiders need is one fat body--you can get one in the 4th round, 6th round or waiver wire. Heck, Hall's buddy Grady Jackson is still on the market. He'd be better than nothing. And putting Sands back into a rotation should keep his motor warm a little better, hence better production.

Burgess can be a top 10 DE again. Kelly has the potential to bring 8-ish sacks playing inside full-time. That's two above-average to very-good defensive linemen. Richardson won't win a Pro Bowl spot, but he will help stop the run and bring admirable pressure on 1st and 2nd down. From there, (assuming a 2-gap DT pickup) the Raiders need only find another waiver wire nickel pass rusher like Clemons whom they found last year.
Richardson's 1 sack as a rookie would suggest he can't even bring admirable pressure.
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Old 03-21-2008, 01:10 AM    (permalink
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Richardson's 1 sack as a rookie would suggest he can't even bring admirable pressure.
imma go ahead and quote meatwad "yous dumb ass hell"

just because he had 1 sack doesnt mean he didnt get pressure....given that our pass rush was pretty bad last year and we didnt get pressure from anywhere. Richardson beat out Moses who was a pure pass rusher for a reason, he's a good run stopper but he can still get in the QBs face every now and then.
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Old 03-21-2008, 01:25 AM    (permalink
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what in your opinion, was the reason why that defense underachieved so much last year? as you probably know, I felt they couldve been a playoff team last year, but 2 things i was hoping for went against me, and that was the defense being very good, and the qb being good enough to manage the game. neither of those things happened. if they just had even one of those 2 fall their way, with all the close games they lost this year, it couldve happened. but hey, as Parcells says, they don't give trophies for trying. :(
Two things:

1) Giving up way too many big plays on defense, especially in the run game. Bad defenses often give up big plays, but it seemed like the number the Raiders game up was disproportional to the rest of their defensive plays. What I mean by that is that most of the time the Raiders' defense actually seemed to do very, very well. They would hold a RB to low yardage for much of the game then give up 2-3 30+ yard runs. Or they would hold the passing game to almost nothing and then all of a sudden they would bust out with 3 or 4 big passes and there are an extra 14 points on the board. It was the exact opposite of bend but don't break.

2) Terrible QB play. The running game was good for probably 11 out of the 16 games. Jordan started out as the best back in the league, he stalled for a few games, got injured and then Fargas took it the rest of the way. But the QB play could never give a consistent effort. McCown shortened the field to 15 yards and in and while Culpepper could hit Porter deep every once in a while, he often looked like he was throwing a slider. And let's not forget all of the fumbles and interceptions.
A perfect example of McCown's ineptitude is Week 2. The Raiders would have beaten the Broncos at the beginning of the season if only McCown could have thrown the deep ball. Twice in a row, Porter had Dre Bly beaten like a red headed step child. The first time McCown overthrew the ball by 10 yards. The second time he over corrected, underthrew the ball right into Bly's arms. That led to a Cutler kneel, a Raider defensive stop in overtime, Janikowski's infamous make/miss on the timeout and then the Elam field goal to win. If McCown hits Porter on either of those two plays, Porter takes it another 10 yards for 6 points and the Raiders win. Similar plays took place all throughout the year when McCown was passing.
On the flip side, Culpepper could hit Porter once or twice a week on a sweet deep route, but couldn't hit the broad side of a barn the rest of the time. I kid you not, his balls were like tailing fastballs--they just didn't come out of his hands straight, ever. I think at one point the Raiders looked for screen passes 3 out of 5 plays (against Ten I believe) and every single time, the ball bounced 2 feet in front of the plate or tailed outside for a ball. It was impossible to know where the ball was going or how to catch it. Crossing routes, slant patterns, button hooks, screen passes--these were impossible for any receiver to catch.

So I would say that you were pretty much right. I do feel that Splat has something important as well--learning to win. It's a mindset that one needs to have to come out of the doldrums and at times it seemed to hurt the Raiders last year.
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Old 03-21-2008, 01:29 AM    (permalink
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That bronco game still stings :(
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Old 03-21-2008, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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The biggest problem I felt with the Raiders defense last year was the lack of a pass rush, and the refusal on the part of Ryan/Al Davis to blitz our LB's. We could not generate a pass rush with our front four and you can't give WR's that much time against someone like Stanford Routt or Chris Carr. Is there a site with 3rd down defensive percentages, cause we had to have one of the worst in the league, especially for 3rd and 5+ yards. I know Al prefers pressure from the front four, but if it isn't happening I hope they start adjusting their play calling this year.

Someone mentioned how the Raiders would give up a couple huge runs per game. A lot of these plays became huge due to a missed tackle rather than the defense just getting owned. I would say 50% of the missed tackles came from the SS position. Stuart Schweigert is a terrible tackler and Hiram Eugene is not a whole lot better. That is why Gibril Wilson is such a good signing for us.

The Raiders defense should be alright this year, but they are going to have to find a way to get to the QB. I would say I am probably more worried about our lack of a pass rush than stopping the run. Looking at the stats it may not make a lot of sense, but if you watched Raiders games this was their biggest problem on the defensive side of the ball.
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Old 03-21-2008, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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So is it for certain Gibril Wilson plays SS and Huff plays FS next year? Makes more sense to me, you have two great man to man corners and a FS with some range that can make plays in the secondary and not taking on tight ends every play.
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Old 03-21-2008, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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I still can't comprehend Oakland's cap situation... Someone please explain how they are not over the cap?
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Old 03-21-2008, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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Getting Hall gives us one of the best pass defences in the league. Aso,Hall, Wilson and Huff in the secondary plus one of the best covering LB's in Thomas Howard should give us a top 5 defencive team against the pass. In the draft we need to draft atleast 3 defensive linemen to go along with mayb another outside lb and Oline. If we can trade Washington and Route for picks that would be great. Getting rid of Jordan should be our number 1 thing to do. Also resigning Gallery would save us a ton of cap space.

Overall I think Oakland with have a slight chance at the playoffs. It mostly depends on Russell. After seeing how he did on the last game last year the future seems bright. If we can get 15-20 tds from him we should be good. I think Oakland goes 6-10 to 8-8 this season.
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Old 03-21-2008, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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I still can't comprehend Oakland's cap situation... Someone please explain how they are not over the cap?
Wilson, Kelly, Walker, and Fargas make a combined 2.8 million in base salary in 2008. Apparently Hall only makes 2 million.
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Old 03-21-2008, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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Wilson, Kelly, Walker, and Fargas make a combined 2.8 million in base salary in 2008. Apparently Hall only makes 2 million.
Which just means if the salary cap is saved then you guys are royally screwed before long.
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Old 03-21-2008, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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Getting Hall gives us one of the best pass defences in the league. Aso,Hall, Wilson and Huff in the secondary plus one of the best covering LB's in Thomas Howard should give us a top 5 defencive team against the pass. In the draft we need to draft atleast 3 defensive linemen to go along with mayb another outside lb and Oline. If we can trade Washington and Route for picks that would be great. Getting rid of Jordan should be our number 1 thing to do. Also resigning Gallery would save us a ton of cap space.

Overall I think Oakland with have a slight chance at the playoffs. It mostly depends on Russell. After seeing how he did on the last game last year the future seems bright. If we can get 15-20 tds from him we should be good. I think Oakland goes 6-10 to 8-8 this season.
Get 3 defensive linemen and an offensive lineman and another linebacker? With what draft picks?
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Old 03-21-2008, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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Which just means if the salary cap is saved then you guys are royally screwed before long.
Not really. As I've said in this thread, Walker won't earn half the money in his contract (and probably won't be around for more than three years). Kelly doesn't really ever end up earning that much, but Oakland have a chance to cut him loose before he earns the majority of it if he doesn't end up being the kind of undertackle they hope he will be. Wilson probably won't make it to the end of his contract either. The Kwame Harris deal is probably in reality a one year signing.

Oakland is taking a risk with the future of the salary cap, but even if the cap continues to expand at it's current rate (remember when it was like 67 million in 2000?), and they cut the dead weight of player so all they are on the hook for is the guaranteed cash, they should be fine.
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Old 03-21-2008, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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Which just means if the salary cap is saved then you guys are royally screwed before long.
We get it, you're a Chiefs fan and you hate the Raiders.
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Old 03-21-2008, 07:50 PM    (permalink
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Get 3 defensive linemen and an offensive lineman and another linebacker? With what draft picks?

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If we can trade Washington and Route for picks that would be great
I think you have down syndrome or you cant read well.

also i didnt mention we might trade down since we probably cant pay the 4th overall pick
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Old 03-21-2008, 09:05 PM    (permalink
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Get 3 defensive linemen and an offensive lineman and another linebacker? With what draft picks?
with our 1st, 4th, 6th and 2 7th rounders, that's 5 picks and he mentioned 5 players taken, math is wonderful you bitter bitter man....
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Old 03-21-2008, 11:16 PM    (permalink
kmartin575
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with our 1st, 4th, 6th and 2 7th rounders, that's 5 picks and he mentioned 5 players taken, math is wonderful you bitter bitter man....
And you really think 6th and 7th round picks are going to make an impact? Most likely not. The only 2 picks you can really count on are the 1st and 4th round picks.
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Old 03-21-2008, 11:17 PM    (permalink
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I think you have down syndrome or you cant read well.

also i didnt mention we might trade down since we probably cant pay the 4th overall pick
No, I can read very well very well thank you very much. I'm not from Oakland, hence I actually have an education.
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Old 03-21-2008, 11:27 PM    (permalink
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Oooohhh...Zing.

Thats pretty harsh.
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