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Old 03-17-2008, 09:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by keylime_5 View Post
Faneca and Woody are on the downside of their careers, D'Brick is alright, but not great (yet at least). Mangold is very good, but they aren't very deep and Brandon Moore at RG is only decent. New England's line is superior as is San Diego's, Dallas', Cleveland's and probably Minnesota's. All those lines are younger too. Jets do have a good front 5 now though which will help their offense tremendously.

Speaking of Cleveland's line, talk about depth and talent: Joe Thomas, Eric Steinbach, Ryan Tucker, Hank Fraley, Rex Hadnot, and Lennie Friedman. All those guys are really versatile too.
You forgot Kevin Shaffer our starting RT, and Bentley is fully healthy now. He wont be a starter, but he has value as a back-up/mentor.
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:48 PM    (permalink
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Cleveland had a great OL last year, part of the reason why I think Derek Anderson is overrated. I think Brady Quinn is the real franchise QB on that team.
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:51 PM    (permalink
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It belongs to the browns, wait until LeCharles Bentley, and they will have the best left side in football.

LT: Joe Thomas
LG: Eric Steinbach
OC: LeCharles Bentley
RG: Hank Fraley
RT: Kevin Shaffer

And they only have one player at the age of 30 or higher, how many teams could you say the same, and still be a top o-line in the league.
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:52 PM    (permalink
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Cleveland had a great OL last year, part of the reason why I think Derek Anderson is overrated. I think Brady Quinn is the real franchise QB on that team.
thank you. for having a great OL, very solid run game and maybe the top WR/TE tandem in the AFC, how did Anderson have the 2nd worste completion% in the NFL to go with 19 picks?
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:52 PM    (permalink
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Well, that and Mawae replaced an awful Justin Hartwig. But yeah, adding veteran leadership is a pretty big bonus usually. I think the Jets OL has the potential to be the best in the NFL, but obviously it's something that has to be seen to be fully believed first. Also, a lot of the "best OL in the NFL" tag comes with team success (quite often a prerequisite for pro bowl trips as well). A great OL will provide the foundations for a good offense, but the skill positions have to take advantage and without that it's hard to tell when an OL is doing top work.
Yea usually when a team gets referred with the best OL thats usually a playoff team without a doubt, and a lot of times a SB team. You win the games in the trenches, I can't wait for this season to start, I am pumped about that added talent to the OL, hope Ferguson plays strong though, we need him to be a pro bowl type LT. He needs to be consistent, Mangold already is great, he should be even better this year, he will be a pro bowl C for a long time, once some of the older dudes retire that are getting in based off of name. We have the potential to field 2 pro bowlers on the OL, Faneca is a given, since his name is known, and Mangold is the 2nd. Last year our OL was like the worst in the NFL.
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:52 PM    (permalink
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On paper they might be top 10.

But chemistry is the most important aspect of offensive line quality and the Jets don't have very much to look back on in that department. Also, Ferguson gets flat out dominated too often for me to really label him a top 5 LT in this league and that position is the most important across the line.
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
based on last year i had them ranked like this:

1. New England
2. Dallas
3. Tennessee
4. Green Bay
5. Indy

With Jacksonville, Cleveland and NYG as outsiders looking in. I think this year, who knows, we don't know yet. Paper means nothing with olines. NE's oline doesn't look that impressive on paper, and it was easily the most dominant in the league. The only game where they looked mortal was in the SB. Let's not forget how dominant they were every other game.
I think you're forgetting a few games. Indy, Philadelphia, and Baltimore come to mind. Also I think you're underrating your own team's line.
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by PACKmanN View Post
It belongs to the browns, wait until LeCharles Bentley, and they will have the best left side in football.

LT: Joe Thomas
LG: Eric Steinbach
OC: LeCharles Bentley
RG: Hank Fraley
RT: Kevin Shaffer

And they only have one player at the age of 30 or higher, how many teams could you say the same, and still be a top o-line in the league.
I think Bentley would actually play G IMO, and fraley would stick at C. But realistically I would not really on Bentley to make any contributions for a while.
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:54 PM    (permalink
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Was Levi Jones injured last year? For your guys' sake I hope he was so he can have a reason for his poor play. I remember him getting benched because he got manhandled so badly by Jared Allen. I still think he is a good tackle and I hope he does return to form.
Ya he came back last year and was still obviously a bit hampered by his injuries. he gradually got better though and he should be fine this year for sure. If i'm not mistaken he was an alternate for the Pro Bowl this year even though he played bad initially.
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:56 PM    (permalink
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thank you. for having a great OL, very solid run game and maybe the top WR/TE tandem in the AFC, how did Anderson have the 2nd worste completion% in the NFL to go with 19 picks?
Don't like Anderson?? Yea when ever I watched him. I never come out impressed, something about him I just don't like. You guys had to resign Anderson since letting him go can get guys fired if he is the real deal. I remember him against the Jets, he had all day to throw, yet wasn't lighting us up, all he could do was dump offs to his WR and TE. I am a Notre Dame fan, watched every game of Quinn, he is a beast, I want to see him play already! lol I really believe hes a franchise QB.
But yea when I watched Browns games also, I came very impressed with that OL, they were very very good last year. Reason why I don't understand why Anderson threw so many INT to lose out in the playoffs?
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:59 PM    (permalink
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I think you're forgetting a few games. Indy, Philadelphia, and Baltimore come to mind. Also I think you're underrating your own team's line.
Philly and Baltimore got their with blitzes. Its hard to fault the line entirely for that, when you have to factor in blitz pick up by the backs and TEs. Youre right about Indy, they got there with 4 guys. The Giants did as well, we only blitzed 30% of the time in the SB.

Still, 2 bad games is pretty impressive.


As for the Giants, I think we have a top 5 run blocking line for sure. Pass protection leaves some to be desired. We have trouble with speed rushers off the edge. Eli also makes our pass protection look a lot better than it is. He adjusts all the protections, and he has great pocket presence. Thats why it takes him so long to snap the ball, he almost runs a no huddle with a huddle. Sometimes its too much, and we can't snap it in time.
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:00 PM    (permalink
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Bentley's pretty much never gonna play a down for the Browns, or at least that's what I hear. They say if LCB does play again, it will be in another city, but that's just what I heard. Either way Browns fans are (or at least should be) going on like Bentley's not gonna play for us this year. Even without him we have an incredible line that is insanely deep. Other than maybe Minnesota I don't think there is a better left side than Thomas/Steinbach. Joe Thomas is gonna make the pro bowl every year for the next ten years if he can help it.

But when talking about comparing O-Lines using stats, you get into a real fallacy b/c things like play calling and the QB can really ruin a good O-Line's sacks given up total. Just look at Charlie Frye last year or David Carr his entire career (his line wasn't good, but it wasn't as bad as he made it look either); or look at the Lions last year, they passed to the point that too much pressure was put on the line to protect against the blitz. And remember Oakland in 2007 with their dinosaur offense that made their mediocre line look like it was a bunch of high schoolers?
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:03 PM    (permalink
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Bentley's pretty much never gonna play a down for the Browns, or at least that's what I hear. They say if LCB does play again, it will be in another city, but that's just what I heard. Either way Browns fans are (or at least should be) going on like Bentley's not gonna play for us this year. Even without him we have an incredible line that is insanely deep. Other than maybe Minnesota I don't think there is a better left side than Thomas/Steinbach. Joe Thomas is gonna make the pro bowl every year for the next ten years if he can help it.

But when talking about comparing O-Lines using stats, you get into a real fallacy b/c things like play calling and the QB can really ruin a good O-Line's sacks given up total. Just look at Charlie Frye last year or David Carr his entire career (his line wasn't good, but it wasn't as bad as he made it look either); or look at the Lions last year, they passed to the point that too much pressure was put on the line to protect against the blitz. And remember Oakland in 2007 with their dinosaur offense that made their mediocre line look like it was a bunch of high schoolers?
Browns season opener last year......Charlie Frye was sacked 5 times in the first 17 minutes of the game. One was credited to Joe THomas (which wasnt his fault). The rest of the season after Anderson took over in week 2, the Browns gave up 7 sacks and Joe Thomas never gave up another one....
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:09 PM    (permalink
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And they only have one player at the age of 30 or higher, how many teams could you say the same, and still be a top o-line in the league.
The Colts, the Chargers, and the Giants come to mind.
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:22 PM    (permalink
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Philly and Baltimore got their with blitzes. Its hard to fault the line entirely for that, when you have to factor in blitz pick up by the backs and TEs. Youre right about Indy, they got there with 4 guys. The Giants did as well, we only blitzed 30% of the time in the SB.
I can see that I guess, however I'm sure the Eagles and Ravens weren't the only teams to blitz that line, and they stayed solid in most every other game (the Dallas game and the first Giants game Brady got pressured/hit a few times too, but less so then the aforementioned 4 games). I think the thing that behooved the Ravens and Eagles is that they were able to more successfully leave their CBs on an island than most teams and therefore could bring more pressure without necessarily sacrificing a great deal in coverage. One of the things the Patriots offense has been great at over the years is taking pressure off Brady through scheme with screen and drags (and now they have the master of the drag route in Wes Welker to help with that), but those two teams were able to neutralize some of that for a while, as well as get pressure when they tried to throw deep.
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Old 03-17-2008, 11:22 PM    (permalink
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That is far from the truth. Joe Thomas is better than both teams LT's and Eric Steinbach is at least even or not far behind the LG's of the respective teams.

Your only arguement is exsperience, but after the first game of the season the Browns entire OL only gave up 7 sacks. thats less than .5 per game.
Statistically, your argument doesn't hold up.

On paper, sure...Thomas/Steinbach have the "name" value...but NE and INDY had better years from that side of the line.
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Old 03-17-2008, 11:54 PM    (permalink
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Absolutely not.

D'Brick still has to prove himself and we still have a complete JAG at RG.

Brick-Faneca-Mangold-Moore-Woody

Has amazing potential but not quite elite.
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Old 03-18-2008, 12:00 AM    (permalink
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until we see what happens next year, i have to say that NE has the be best. they gave tom brady all day to throw for almost a full year.
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Old 03-18-2008, 12:01 AM    (permalink
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I will say that Mangold is one of the better centers in the league though
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Old 03-18-2008, 09:08 AM    (permalink
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I hope the Jets have a top 10, that would be great. I am sick of having a horrible OL. Last time we had a dominant unit that was 2004. That OL was sick.

LT-Fabini LG-Kendall C-Mawae RG-Moore RT-McKenzie

It had Curtis Martin running for his career high and lead the league in yards. But then we let McKenzie go, then Fabini got old and stunk, Mawae got older and injured then left. And we went downhill.
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Old 03-18-2008, 09:17 AM    (permalink
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Statistically, your argument doesn't hold up.

On paper, sure...Thomas/Steinbach have the "name" value...but NE and INDY had better years from that side of the line.
You know I just typed two paragraphs about how statistics for O-Lines can be extremely deceiving. Light is no Thomas, and Steinbach isn't any worse than Mankins. New England has a sick line no doubt, but a lot of that is scheme and Tom Brady's release too.
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Old 03-18-2008, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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Philly and Baltimore got their with blitzes. Its hard to fault the line entirely for that, when you have to factor in blitz pick up by the backs and TEs. Youre right about Indy, they got there with 4 guys. The Giants did as well, we only blitzed 30% of the time in the SB.

Still, 2 bad games is pretty impressive.


As for the Giants, I think we have a top 5 run blocking line for sure. Pass protection leaves some to be desired. We have trouble with speed rushers off the edge. Eli also makes our pass protection look a lot better than it is. He adjusts all the protections, and he has great pocket presence. Thats why it takes him so long to snap the ball, he almost runs a no huddle with a huddle. Sometimes its too much, and we can't snap it in time.
I'd toss our name there. Really since 2004 our o-line has gotten better and better, not to mention we are deep AND versatile. But I do agree speed guys can get the best of David D. David D got his jock handed to him in the superbowl. Everytime I looked he was getting his butt shoved back or just beat by Thomas.

If I had to change something I would get a LT and move David D back or draft a better LG than Rich S. and this can help us when we run 38 power.
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Old 03-18-2008, 11:42 AM    (permalink
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They just signed Franks. Is he a good blocker?
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Old 03-18-2008, 12:09 PM    (permalink
art vandelay
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This topic is funny. The Jets have the 3rd best line in their division. And the 4th is Miami who currently has 6 OL players on their entire roster. Their projected starting o-line right now:

Julius Wilson > Justin Smiley > Samson Satele > Ikechuku Ndukwe > Vernon Carey
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Old 03-18-2008, 12:38 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by art vandelay View Post
This topic is funny. The Jets have the 3rd best line in their division. And the 4th is Miami who currently has 6 OL players on their entire roster. Their projected starting o-line right now:

Julius Wilson > Justin Smiley > Samson Satele > Ikechuku Ndukwe > Vernon Carey
Its not funny, its debatable, the Bills OL isn't that great. Jets potentially can be better, I say the Pats have the best OL in the division still. They played great besides the SB.
Bills all they have really is Peters, everyone else is average. Jets have 2 above average/stud O-linemen right now in Faneca and Mangold. And Brick has the potential to be a stud O-linemen/ above average player.
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