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Old 03-25-2008, 09:11 PM    (permalink
DawgBone
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IMO Phil Savage. In 3-4 years he took the very worste team in the NFL to possibly top 5 in the hard AFC.

Everyone remembers some of our horrible draft picks. Free agents despite us having money, refused to play here.

We get the top free agents now, great pro bowl quality draft picks. Hes unbeleavable at getting players as undrafted FA's getting Cribbs and Bodden of late. He was also in charge of bringing in and having faith in Derek Anderson.

He played a huge part in the Ravens superbowl and the solid teams they had and brought the same style to Cleveland.

Ted Thomas deserved to win, and I also like AJ Smith, but Phil easily did the most with less.

We didnt have a simgle pro bowler for a span of about 5-6 years, and we had 6 this year.

The Browns could have around 9 pro bowl players this year if everyone plays up to par.
Derek Anderson
Braylon Edwards
Kellen Winslow
Lawrence Vickers (without Lorenzo Neal Vickers is a near lock)
Joe Thomas
Eric Steinbach (has made 2 before)
Josh Cribbs
Shaun Rogers (has made 2 before)
Kamerion Wimbley

Its just nasty what Phil Savage has done with the talent level of this team and I didnt even include the solid players like...
Jamal Lewis
Donte Stallworth
Corey Williams
Sean Jones
Eric Wright
Andra Davis
Dqwell Jackson
Brodney Poole
Kevin Shaffer
Hank Fraley
Joe Jurivicius
Brady Quinn

THis team is going to be pretty nasty. He has also brought an unbelievable coaching staff in from the horrid Butch Davis years.

His been credited for genius salary cap meneuvers that have since been picked up by teams all around the league.

Who would have thought 3 years ago when he took over for the Browns we would be talking deep playoff runs? If this team was in the NFC they could easily be considered the 2nd best team by more than one guru.

Before Phil Savage/after Phil Savage
Tim Couch - Derek Anderson
William Green - Jamal Lewis
Terrell Smith - Lawrence Vickers
Kevin Johnson - Braylon Edwards
Quincy Morgan - Donte Stallworth
Dennis Northcutt - Joe Jurivicius
LJ Sheldon - Joe THomas
Joe Andruzzi - Eric Steinbach
Jeff Faine - Hank Fraley
Cosey Coleman - Lecharles Bentley (finally healthy)
Ross Verba - Kevin Shaffer

Kenard Land - Corey Williams
Gerard Warren - Shaun Rogers
Alvin McKinley - Shaun Smith
Ebinezer Eukuban - Robair Smith
Ben Taylor - Dqwell Jackson
Kevin Bentley - Kamerion Wimbley
Daylon Mccutcheon - Eric Wright
Michael Jamison - Brodney Poole
Michael Lehan - Sean Jones

Derek Frost - Dave Zastudil
Andre King - Josh Cribbs
anyone see a difference in 3 years?

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Old 03-25-2008, 10:46 PM    (permalink
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Polian could win the award every year as he annually finds players that fit his teams style of playing on both OFF and DEF. Think of all the recent gems he's found in rounds 3-7.

Here's a list of players drafted in the 3rd round or later since Polian has been in Indy:

2007- LB Clint Session, DT Keyunta Dawson, DT Quin Pitcock
2006- LB Freddie Keiaho, S Antone Bethea
2005- G Dylan Gandy, LB Tyjuan Hagler
2004- Jason David, Jake Scott
2003- Cato June, Robert Mathis
2002- David Thorton
2001- Ryan Diem, Rick DeMulling
1999- Hunter Smith

Players in bold are ones that I feel are impact players for the Colts and are starters. Look at the Colts first pick that they have had in the draft going back to 1997 when Polian arrived in Indy, the guy does not miss. Heres a list of the Colts 1st picks in the draft back to 1998:

Anthony Gonzalez, Joseph Addai, Marlin Jackson, Bob Sanders, Dallas Clark, Dwight Freeney, Reggie Wayne, Rob Morris, Edgerrin James, and Peyton Manning. Six of those ten players have played in at least once Pro Bowl. Stack this together, and you have the resume of the best GM in the NFL in the last ten years.
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Old 03-25-2008, 10:47 PM    (permalink
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Ted Thompson
Great or Greatest
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Old 03-25-2008, 10:52 PM    (permalink
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I think most people forgot what huge homers Browns fans are because they've been bad for so long.

I mean, I'm from Cleveland so I never forgot, but I think most did.
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Old 03-25-2008, 11:02 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by DawgBone View Post
IMO Phil Savage. In 3-4 years he took the very worste team in the NFL to possibly top 5 in the hard AFC.
He would have been fired if they were under .500.
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Old 03-25-2008, 11:06 PM    (permalink
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So just by upgrading the talent, but not making the Playoffs is what makes him the GM of the year? please.... Thompson got us out of so much, from cap, age, talent, and coaching.
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Old 03-25-2008, 11:08 PM    (permalink
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But what about Hank Fraley!?!?

And again, you're both wrong, it's Bill Polian and/or Scott Pioli/Bellicheck.

The Packers haven't even made a Superbowl with TT and the Browns haven't even made the ******* playoffs. Back up the homer trains, neither guy is even in the top 5 yet. Savage isn't even sniffing it.

Unless we're just talking about this year, in which case TT is fine.
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Old 03-25-2008, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingColt View Post
Polian could win the award every year as he annually finds players that fit his teams style of playing on both OFF and DEF. Think of all the recent gems he's found in rounds 3-7.

Here's a list of players drafted in the 3rd round or later since Polian has been in Indy:

2007- LB Clint Session, DT Keyunta Dawson, DT Quin Pitcock
2006- LB Freddie Keiaho, S Antone Bethea
2005- G Dylan Gandy, LB Tyjuan Hagler
2004- Jason David, Jake Scott
2003- Cato June, Robert Mathis
2002- David Thorton
2001- Ryan Diem, Rick DeMulling
1999- Hunter Smith

Players in bold are ones that I feel are impact players for the Colts and are starters.
2007- James Jones, Aaron Rouse, Korey Hall, Mason Crosby, Deshawn Wynn
2006 - Jason Spitz, Tony Moll, Johnny Jolly,
2005 - Brady Poppinga, Junius Coston, Mike Montgomery, Will Whittiker
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Old 03-25-2008, 11:17 PM    (permalink
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But what about Hank Fraley!?!?

And again, you're both wrong, it's Bill Polian and/or Scott Pioli/Bellicheck.

The Packers haven't even made a Superbowl with TT and the Browns haven't even made the ******* playoffs. Back up the homer trains, neither guy is even in the top 5 yet. Savage isn't even sniffing it.

Unless we're just talking about this year, in which case TT is fine.
Well I guess if you're looking heavily at track record that's true. Thompson hasn't been with the Packers for that long. Looking at the past couple years he's easily been top 5. He deserves a lot of credit for bringing in McCarthy as well, who was an instant success. A lot of his success this year is thanks to good past decisions.
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Old 03-25-2008, 11:21 PM    (permalink
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Well I guess if you're looking heavily at track record that's true. Thompson hasn't been with the Packers for that long. Looking at the past couple years he's easily been top 5. He deserves a lot of credit for bringing in McCarthy as well, who was an instant success. A lot of his success this year is thanks to good past decisions.
I'm not sure I even agree with that. The Packers have won a single playoff game in that span. There have been far more successful GM's and teams in that time period. Yes there has been a dramatic turnaround in the last 2 years in terms of wins, but nobody knows if that will be sustained, particularly with Favre gone. Let's not break out the annointing oil before it's actually earned.
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Old 03-25-2008, 11:40 PM    (permalink
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AJ Smith does some pretty remarkable things as a GM.
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Old 03-26-2008, 09:19 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Both Accorsi's and Reese's. The problem with Accorsi was he was too active in FA, and often kept around talent or drafted talent that was injury prone. Reese got rid of all our cancers, and injury prone guys and drafted guys that fit our system.

Thats another thing Accorsi never did, Accorsi didn't draft guys into a system, he just drafted whoever he thought was good. Reese specifically targets talent that is maximized under the systems theyre being drafted into: examples being Ross, Alford, Smith, and Bradshaw.

I don't disagree with Thompson getting the nod, theres a lot of good GMs in this league. Reese could very well be a one year wonder for all we know.






While Accorsi's players finally stepped up Reese has done alot more than people will give him credit for. He stared down Strahan and didn't give him more money when he was holding out, and also cut Luke P., which at the time was a big move because he was a long time vet on this team. One key move was locking up Justin Tuck as well.


Found this on BBI..

Ted Thompson

Drafted players:

1 Justin Harrell DT Tennessee
2 Brandon Jackson RB Nebraska
3 James Jones WR San Jose State
3 Aaron Rouse SAF Virginia Tech
4 Allen Barbre G Missouri Southern State
5 David Clowney WR Virginia Tech
6 Korey Hall FB Boise State
6 Desmond Bishop LB California
6 Mason Crosby K Colorado
7 DeShawn Wynn RB Florida
7 Clark Harris TE Rutgers

outside of Crosby, who in this draft really contributed?? Harell, their first round draft pick only started 2 games and played in 7 games total.

Free agents acquired:
Craig Nall QB
Daniel Muir DT
Conrad Bolston DT
Ryan Krause TE
Orrin Thompsn OT
Ryan Grant RB (trade)
John Kuhn FB (waiver)
Tramon Williams CB
Ryan Powdrell FB



Jerry Reese

Draft:
1 Aaron Ross CB Texas
2 Steve Smith WR USC
3 Jay Alford NT Penn State
4 Zak DeOssie LB Brown
5 Kevin Boss TE Western Oregon
6 Adam Koets T Oregon State
7 Michael Johnson SAF Arizona
7 Ahmad Bradshaw RB Marshall



Free agents:

Anthony Wright QB
Rueben Droughns RB (trade)
Danny Ware RB
Madison Hedgecock FB (waivers)
Domenik Hixon WR (waivers)
Michael Matthews TE
Dave Tollefson DE
Kavika Mitchell LB
Geoffrey Pope CB
Lawrence Tynes K
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Old 03-26-2008, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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Thompson is a good GM but the the building blocks for the Packers were there already. 2005 was an injury riddled year for the Packers and they were actually a better team than there 4-12 record. Thompson completed the team with Woodson(who was miraculously still on the market in early April or late March) and hired a great coach so I guess he deserves to win. I gvie McCarthy way more credit for the Packers success, but McCarthy was hired by Thompson. Plus he has been able to retain all his young players and set this team up for the post Favre era. The key will be Rodgers,Harell and how Jenning/Jones perform without Favre. Hawk is a no-brainer solid pick.

Thompson inherited, Favre future HOFer, Driver, two solid tackles in Clifton, Taushcer, Barnett, Al Harris, and two solid DEs in Kampman/Barnett. Pretty much the backbone of any team. They won 3 or 4 North Championships in a row before Thompson. Because of cap problems before the jump in the cap, Thompson did the only thing he could do in cut Wahle,Rivera and Sharper. He was able to complete the team with guys like Pickett,Jennings/Jones and got a great find in Ryan Grant.
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Old 03-26-2008, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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I gotta give credit to Bill Polian.

But it's hard for him to win the award currently considering how the Colts are built--- for stability and NOT for intriguing big moves.
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Old 03-26-2008, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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While Accorsi's players finally stepped up Reese has done alot more than people will give him credit for. He stared down Strahan and didn't give him more money when he was holding out, and also cut Luke P., which at the time was a big move because he was a long time vet on this team. One key move was locking up Justin Tuck as well.


Found this on BBI..

Ted Thompson

Drafted players:

1 Justin Harrell DT Tennessee
2 Brandon Jackson RB Nebraska
3 James Jones WR San Jose State
3 Aaron Rouse SAF Virginia Tech
4 Allen Barbre G Missouri Southern State
5 David Clowney WR Virginia Tech
6 Korey Hall FB Boise State
6 Desmond Bishop LB California
6 Mason Crosby K Colorado
7 DeShawn Wynn RB Florida
7 Clark Harris TE Rutgers

outside of Crosby, who in this draft really contributed?? Harell, their first round draft pick only started 2 games and played in 7 games total.

Free agents acquired:
Craig Nall QB
Daniel Muir DT
Conrad Bolston DT
Ryan Krause TE
Orrin Thompsn OT
Ryan Grant RB (trade)
John Kuhn FB (waiver)
Tramon Williams CB
Ryan Powdrell FB



Jerry Reese

Draft:
1 Aaron Ross CB Texas
2 Steve Smith WR USC
3 Jay Alford NT Penn State
4 Zak DeOssie LB Brown
5 Kevin Boss TE Western Oregon
6 Adam Koets T Oregon State
7 Michael Johnson SAF Arizona
7 Ahmad Bradshaw RB Marshall



Free agents:

Anthony Wright QB
Rueben Droughns RB (trade)
Danny Ware RB
Madison Hedgecock FB (waivers)
Domenik Hixon WR (waivers)
Michael Matthews TE
Dave Tollefson DE
Kavika Mitchell LB
Geoffrey Pope CB
Lawrence Tynes K
James Jones was our third WR and played great. Jackson got better at the end of the year. Rouse looked impressive in his 1 start, but got hurt. Hall started at FB. Wynn had a big run against the Giants to seal the win. And was tearing up the bears before he got hurt. As for FA's, we all know what Grant did. And Kuhn shared time with Hall. Williams was a KR and i believe he eventually became the Nickel back
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Old 03-26-2008, 11:02 AM    (permalink
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But what about Hank Fraley!?!?

And again, you're both wrong, it's Bill Polian and/or Scott Pioli/Bellicheck.

The Packers haven't even made a Superbowl with TT and the Browns haven't even made the ******* playoffs. Back up the homer trains, neither guy is even in the top 5 yet. Savage isn't even sniffing it.

Unless we're just talking about this year, in which case TT is fine.
Relax bro sounds like you woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Do you want every poster that has an opinion to not share it? Or are you just saying if you dont agree we should keep it to ourselves?

I gave very good reasons with my answer to take it one step out of the "homer" position.

The post was to point out what our GM has accomplished. I even said in my post that in my opinion I thought Ted Thompson should be the winner.

Once again a respected poster to this board over values his own opinions. You dont think it should have been Ted THompson? 19 of the the NFL's 48 executives seemed to agree it should be.

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Old 03-26-2008, 11:08 AM    (permalink
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He would have been fired if they were under .500.
Use something substancial for your arguement. Not "what ifs".

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Old 03-26-2008, 11:09 AM    (permalink
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sorry delete this.

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Old 03-26-2008, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by DawgBone View Post
The Packers had a good year because they werent injured like the year before. They played some pretty easy teams that the AFC doesnt get the luxeury of playing.

Most teams would die to get to play the Lions, Bears, and Viks twice in the 2007 season.
The last time the Browns played the Lions, the Lions won.

The Bears have been pretty strong until their collapse this year and I don't think anyone will enjoy playing Adrian Peterson and that run D twice a year. Everyone might enjoy playing the Lions, but the Browns have been the Lions of the AFC North until last year.

The AFC North has the same problems as the NFC North with 1 dimensional teams with one solid team in Pittsburgh/Green Bay. Cincy has the O but no D, Cleveland has been the doormat with no D like the Lions with weapons like Braylon/Winslow, Baltimore has the D but no Offense and are inconsistent from year to year like the Vikings.
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Old 03-26-2008, 11:25 AM    (permalink
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The last time the Browns played the Lions, the Lions won.

The Bears have been pretty strong until their collapse this year and I don't think anyone will enjoy playing Adrian Peterson and that run D twice a year. Everyone might enjoy playing the Lions, but the Browns have been the Lions of the AFC North until last year.

The AFC North has the same problems as the NFC North with 1 dimensional teams with one solid team in Pittsburgh/Green Bay. Cincy has the O but no D, Cleveland has been the doormat with no D like the Lions with weapons like Braylon/Winslow, Baltimore has the D but no Offense and are inconsistent from year to year like the Vikings.
"The last time the Browns played the Lions, the Lions won. "

The last time that happened the Browns also sucked and I wouldnt have even chimed in on this thread.

And why is everyone throwing out the fact that we didnt make the playoffs? If the Colts didnt give up on their season to rest like half the NFL the Browns would have been in. Its a joke that the season last 16 games, but the NFL cant even get them to show up for all 16.

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Old 03-26-2008, 11:32 AM    (permalink
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Scott Pioli/Bill Belichick and Bill Polian get my vote. However, Jerry Reese will skyrocket if he keeps drafting like he did last year.
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Old 03-26-2008, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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James Jones was our third WR and played great. Jackson got better at the end of the year. Rouse looked impressive in his 1 start, but got hurt. Hall started at FB. Wynn had a big run against the Giants to seal the win. And was tearing up the bears before he got hurt. As for FA's, we all know what Grant did. And Kuhn shared time with Hall. Williams was a KR and i believe he eventually became the Nickel back
Yeah your players did come on towards the end. It should be noted that Reese also had 2 jobs this past year. He still had his old job or director of scouting or something AND GM. He didn't get time to interview and hire someone so he did his old job AND his new GM job. Now he hired Marc Ross as the new guy for his old job. But what makes Reese's success his first year even better in our eyes is that he had two job responsibilties last year.
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Old 03-26-2008, 11:44 AM    (permalink
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"The last time the Browns played the Lions, the Lions won. "

The last time that happened the Browns also sucked and I wouldnt have even chimed in on this thread.

And why is everyone throwing out the fact that we didnt make the playoffs? If the Colts didnt give up on their season to rest like half the NFL the Browns would have been in. Its a joke that the season last 16 games, but the NFL cant even get them to show up for all 16.
Your argument is that the Packers wouldn't have had as good of season if they weren't in the NFC North. The Pack also went 3-1 against the NFC East which most consider the toughest division in football. Maybe the Browns wouldn't have been 10-6 if Cincy and Baltimore didn't fall apart. I'd love to play Baltimore and Cincy next year instead of Minnesota and Chicago. Its the NFL, every game and every division is tough.

The Colts had every reason to rest their starters they had nothing to gain from playing them.
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Old 03-26-2008, 12:41 PM    (permalink
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Your argument is that the Packers wouldn't have had as good of season if they weren't in the NFC North. The Pack also went 3-1 against the NFC East which most consider the toughest division in football. Maybe the Browns wouldn't have been 10-6 if Cincy and Baltimore didn't fall apart. I'd love to play Baltimore and Cincy next year instead of Minnesota and Chicago. Its the NFL, every game and every division is tough.

The Colts had every reason to rest their starters they had nothing to gain from playing them.
The Colts had every reason? You think most of those fans would have bought an exspensive ticket to watch Jim Sorgie? Its just another recent reason this league is turning into a joke. They did have a reason to play them, its called maintaining chemistry, something they obviously lost when they got to the playoffs.

NFC East the toughest? But then you go on to say every division is tough? Thats not much support to your own statement.

And no every game isnt tough. Just ask the Titans who got an easy ride against the Colts because they rested all of their star players. tell me that was tough? Were the games for the Pats early this year very tough? how about when the Steelers killed the Browns, was that hard for them to?


GB had a very good year, but you can thank Brett Favre not Ted Thompson.

Here is a copy of your schedule and the results...
http://www.nfl.com/teams/schedule?team=GB

Other than the Cowboys and luckily getting to play the Giants during there 0-2 start, your schedule might have been the easiest in the NFL this year? Find me an easier one? Once the Giants got their team together they ended up beating you anyways. Plus your only true test against the Cowboys you lost.

Heres an interesting thing to look at (team deffense)
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...1&d-447263-n=1

Most of the teams the Packers got to play were ranked mid to bottom of the NFL in team deffense, Brett Favre was able to have a hay day before he retired. is it any wonder 5 of the top 6 deffensive teams play in the AFC?

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Old 03-26-2008, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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A darkhorse would be Ozzie Newsome. Great talent evaluator, IMO.
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