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Old 03-26-2008, 02:45 PM    (permalink
umphrey
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Originally Posted by DawgBone View Post
Ya no problems wit you bro. But Ive got 3 negative reps from 3 different packers fans that think I hate their team. Maybe they forgot I was on their side to start?

I was on the side of Thompson, but got angry at neg rep from Pack fans so I started to look on the other side of the grass.

For 5 dollas Ill be a Lion fan tomm ok? My Sanders jersey is still in the attick.
Well yeah you pretty much turned us all against you when you said all our success was because of Favre (way off), we had the easiest schedule in the league (probably middle of the road, and don't try to take away our early wins against Philly, San Diego, and NYG), and that we only did good because of few injuries (we were healthy, but we had a good team to begin with).

Millen takes a lot of smack but I think he's improved in the past few years. He's brought in some good players, he's not doing bad from a talent evaluation standpoint, he just doesn't seem to understand that you have to build a team from the interior not the skill positions. He also seems to go with what he thinks is best and not what the fans want which I admire, but that trait only works when you're smarter than the fans...
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Old 03-26-2008, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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"and that we only did good because of few injuries (we were healthy, but we had a good team to begin with)."

I think you guys here what you want. Tha packers started off and finished good. And I never mentioned anything about your teams injuries in 2007? That was a comment for the 2006 season.
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Old 03-26-2008, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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No you neg repped me for this

Saying this in the neg rep

So I neg repped you back not only for that but because you aren't making any sense in you're arguments and can't make a valid point if your life depended on it. I didn't even say anything about the Packers I was talking about the Browns.
He's making sense on this page. Saying Thompson deserved it despite his team overachieving on a weak schedule, which they did,and that Phil Savage deserved to be in the discussion despite the browns also preying on a weak schedule. Personally I don't expect Anderson or Lewis to have any where near as good of a season as they had last year and that the D is still very questionable, corner and OLB(opposite Whimbley) especially. Hell there where so many bad teams in the league that any good good team preyed on a weak schedule.
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Old 03-26-2008, 03:20 PM    (permalink
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He's making sense on this page. Saying Thompson deserved it despite his team overachieving on a weak schedule, which they did,and that Phil Savage deserved to be in the discussion despite the browns also preying on a weak schedule. Personally I don't expect Anderson or Lewis to have any where near as good of a season as they had last year and that the D is still very questionable, corner and OLB(opposite Whimbley) especially. Hell there where so many bad teams in the league that any good good team preyed on a weak schedule.
I gave a great reason why Phil is a good GM, are you doubting he is or should be in the consideration?

Name another team that has did more with less in a 3 year span? And GB - what do you mean im not making sence, this is my arguement.


Before Phil Savage/after Phil Savage
Tim Couch - Derek Anderson
William Green - Jamal Lewis
Terrell Smith - Lawrence Vickers
Kevin Johnson - Braylon Edwards
Quincy Morgan - Donte Stallworth
Dennis Northcutt - Joe Jurivicius
LJ Sheldon - Joe THomas
Joe Andruzzi - Eric Steinbach
Jeff Faine - Hank Fraley
Cosey Coleman - Lecharles Bentley (finally healthy)
Ross Verba - Kevin Shaffer

Kenard Land - Corey Williams
Gerard Warren - Shaun Rogers
Alvin McKinley - Shaun Smith
Ebinezer Eukuban - Robair Smith
Ben Taylor - Dqwell Jackson
Kevin Bentley - Kamerion Wimbley
Daylon Mccutcheon - Eric Wright
Michael Jamison - Brodney Poole
Michael Lehan - Sean Jones

Derek Frost - Dave Zastudil
Andre King - Josh Cribbs
anyone see a difference in 3 years?


WHo has did more to an NFL roster in a positive way that Phil in the last 3 years? Hes doing all he can and it will be recognized next year. That was my only point before saying that Thompson deserved it this year because he got his team to the playoffs.

Then people ripped me for saying its the Browns fault we didnt make the playoffs, so I said we would have if we were in the NFC with a 10-6 record and got bashed.

I guess my only point is that Phil Savage created this team, Ted Thompson basically inherited his minus the coaching staff.

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Old 03-26-2008, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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I gave a great reason why Phil is a good GM, are you doubting he is or should be in the consideration?

Name another team that has did more with less in a 3 year span? And GB - what do you mean im not making sence, this is my arguement.


Before Phil Savage/after Phil Savage
Tim Couch - Derek Anderson
William Green - Jamal Lewis
Terrell Smith - Lawrence Vickers
Kevin Johnson - Braylon Edwards
Quincy Morgan - Donte Stallworth
Dennis Northcutt - Joe Jurivicius
LJ Sheldon - Joe THomas
Joe Andruzzi - Eric Steinbach
Jeff Faine - Hank Fraley
Cosey Coleman - Lecharles Bentley (finally healthy)
Ross Verba - Kevin Shaffer

Kenard Land - Corey Williams
Gerard Warren - Shaun Rogers
Alvin McKinley - Shaun Smith
Ebinezer Eukuban - Robair Smith
Ben Taylor - Dqwell Jackson
Kevin Bentley - Kamerion Wimbley
Daylon Mccutcheon - Eric Wright
Michael Jamison - Brodney Poole
Michael Lehan - Sean Jones

Derek Frost - Dave Zastudil
Andre King - Josh Cribbs
anyone see a difference in 3 years?


WHo has did more to an NFL roster in a positive way that Phil in the last 3 years? Hes doing all he can and it will be recognized next year. That was my only point before saying that Thompson deserved it this year because he got his team to the playoffs.

Then people ripped me for saying its the Browns fault we didnt make the playoffs, so I said we would have if we were in the NFC with a 10-6 record and got bashed.

I guess my only point is that Phil Savage created this team, Ted Thompson basically inherited his minus the coaching staff.
Thompson inherited this team? where did you get this from? Thompson had to rebuild the WR, TE, OL(inside), RB, DB(expect Harris), LB(expect Barnett), and DT(expect Williams), entire ST unit. The only players he inherited from the positions he built were Harris, Barnett, and Williams.

He also saw the talent in Kampman to keep him, before he had his break out season. If you ask me thats an excellent job....

The players you listed came to the team this year, and haven't proven anything to the Browns. Questions like will Rogers still slack off, can Williams play in a 3-4.

If you think Ted Thompson should win the award, then why are you always brining up Phil Savage? seems like you think he should have won the award...
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Old 03-26-2008, 03:53 PM    (permalink
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Thompson inherited this team? where did you get this from? Thompson had to rebuild the WR, TE, OL(inside), RB, DB(expect Harris), LB(expect Barnett), and DT(expect Williams), entire ST unit. The only players he inherited from the positions he built were Harris, Barnett, and Williams.

He also saw the talent in Kampman to keep him, before he had his break out season. If you ask me thats an excellent job....

The players you listed came to the team this year, and haven't proven anything to the Browns. Questions like will Rogers still slack off, can Williams play in a 3-4.

If you think Ted Thompson should win the award, then why are you always brining up Phil Savage? seems like you think he should have won the award...
He inherited Brett Favre, 2 great tackles on offense, Donald Driver, Barnett, etc.... You dont even mention this?

And I dont think he rebuilt the TE's, your TE's arent even nothing to brag about if he did.

"The players you listed came to the team this year"

I listed our entire team that he redid, and you act like I just mentioned Rogers and Williams? What a joke.

Kampman is a great player and your now trying to give that credit to THompson? OMG. Just because he resigned him WOW.

I gaurantee after TT won the award he called Favre and said thanks for the last great year we will have in awhile.

If thats all you want to talk about is how he rebuilt positions, Phil Savage has him easily.

Good passing teams in the NFL need a QB, LT, and pro bowl WR to succeed, the Packers allready had all of this.

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Old 03-26-2008, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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He inherited Brett Favre, 2 great tackles on offense, Donald Driver, Barnett, etc.... You dont even mention this?

And I dont think he rebuilt the TE's, your TE's arent even nothing to brag about if he did.

"The players you listed came to the team this year"

I listed our entire team that he redid, and you act like I just mentioned Rogers and Williams? What a joke.

Kampman is a great player and your now trying to give that credit to THompson? OMG. Just because he resigned him WOW.

I gaurantee after TT won the award he called Favre and said thanks for the last great year we will have in awhile.
And you wonder why you have negative rep...
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Old 03-26-2008, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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He inherited Brett Favre, 2 great tackles on offense, Donald Driver, Barnett, etc.... You dont even mention this?

And I dont think he rebuilt the TE's, your TE's arent even nothing to brag about if he did.

"The players you listed came to the team this year"

I listed our entire team that he redid, and you act like I just mentioned Rogers and Williams? What a joke.

Kampman is a great player and your now trying to give that credit to THompson? OMG. Just because he resigned him WOW.

I gaurantee after TT won the award he called Favre and said thanks for the last great year we will have in awhile.

If thats all you want to talk about is how he rebuilt positions, Phil Savage has him easily.

Good passing teams in the NFL need a QB, LT, and pro bowl WR to succeed, the Packers allready had all of this.
Ok wow Phil Savage went out and signed free agents to replace their past starters, WOW. See how dumb that is....

There something called evaluating the talent, and seeing if that player could become a success in your system... GMs do that too you know...
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Old 03-26-2008, 04:03 PM    (permalink
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I'm sure trading two firsts and a second for a backup QB - to a 25 year old pro-bowler no less - didn't headline Savage's executive of the year resume.

And if you want to talk about roster turnover, only 14 players (now 10 with the losses of Favre, Rob Davis, Bubba Franks, and Corey Williams) remained in 2007 from the team Thompson inherited in 2004. One of the best qualities of TT is that his biggest mistakes (not replacing Rivera and Wahle, signing Marquand Manuel (we get it, BF51), or trading for Moss) haven't resulted in any long term problems, all while keeping the cap extremely healthy.

And the signing of Mike McCarthy (at the time an offensive coordinator for one of the league's worst offenses) can't be underestimated. He's the straw that stirs Green Bay's drink.
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Old 03-26-2008, 04:07 PM    (permalink
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He took the packers from 4-12 to 13-3 and an apperance in the NFC Championship Game. With almost no major FA signings outside of Woodson and Pickett. So the team was virtualy built through the draft and he has brought in some outstanding young talent the last 3 years. I have no reason to believe that this draft will be any different.

I think that Phil Savage of the Browns also deserves a lot of credit for what he has done with the Browns. He has taken a team that the last 6 of 7 years has been the laughing stock of the NFL and turned them into contenders in the AFC. Its a very good thing to see the Browns doing well because they have had a rough last 10 years and they are one of the NFL's oldest teams with lots of history.
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Old 03-26-2008, 04:08 PM    (permalink
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Ok wow Phil Savage went out and signed free agents to replace their past starters, WOW. See how dumb that is....

There something called evaluating the talent, and seeing if that player could become a success in your system... GMs do that too you know...
Ya he did it with Josh Cribbs, Leigh Bodden, and Derek Anderson your point?
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Old 03-26-2008, 04:11 PM    (permalink
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You guys act like the Packers have sucked and TT made them good in a year. If your going to say that he took them from 4-12 to 13-3, then why not bring up the fact he was the reason they went 4-12 if your going to give the GM all the credit for wins?

"I'm sure trading two firsts and a second for a backup QB - to a 25 year old pro-bowler no less - didn't headline Savage's executive of the year resume."

It was a first round pick #24 overall and a second, for basically the #22 overall in a fairly stronger draft. Brady Quinn would be the #1 overall QB this year most likely going top 10. And Anderson is a 24 year old pro bowler.

Are you saying it is a bad idea to have 2 above average QB's on a roster? I think its smart.

And at the time it did headline his GM resume did you allready forget. And if you mention Derek Anderson mention that he was brought to the Browns by Phil as a practice squad player and in 2 years turned into a pro bowler ok?

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Old 03-26-2008, 04:18 PM    (permalink
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Ya he did it with Josh Cribbs, Leigh Bodden, and Derek Anderson your point?
Leigh Bodden is no longer on the team, and no he didn't evaluate anything in Derek Anderson. He got lucky with Anderson, if he did have trust in him, he wouldn't have traded this year first round pick for Quinn...

And well lets look at Thompsons' steals of recent draft....

05:
Terrence Murphy(Before career ending injury)
Marviel Underwood(Before career ending injury)
Brady Poppinga
Junius Coston

06:
Greg Jennings
Will Blackmon
Tony Moll
Johnny Jolly

07:
James Jones
Allen Barbre
Korey Hall
Mason Crosby

He also didn't build our team, he also built another team(Seahawks) on what he believes.

You still haven't answered my question, why did you say that Thompson should win the award, yet you acting like the Browns gm should have won the award? Thompson took a team who DIDN'T make it as far in the playoffs as last year in a long time, and rebuilt them to a yearly playoff contending team, and doing it with the YOUNGEST team in the league...
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Old 03-26-2008, 04:19 PM    (permalink
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You guys act like the Packers have sucked and TT made them good in a year. If your going to say that he took them from 4-12 to 13-3, then why not bring up the fact he was the reason they went 4-12 if your going to give the GM all the credit for wins?
Unless there's some conspiracy theory that I don't know about Ted Thompson didn't injure Javon Walker, Terrence Murphy, Robert Ferguson, Bubba Franks, Ahman Green, Najeh Davenport, Tony Fisher, Brady Poppinga, or Robert Thomas.

He didn't replace the guards effectively right away, but that's not the reason we went 4-12.
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Old 03-26-2008, 04:19 PM    (permalink
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05:
Terrence Murphy(Before career ending injury)
Marviel Underwood(Before career ending injury)
Brady Poppinga
Junius Coston

06:
Greg Jennings
Will Blackmon
Tony Moll
Johnny Jolly

07:
James Jones
Allen Barbre
Korey Hall
Mason Crosby




Most non-packers fans have never heard of most of these people. There only coveted to packers fans.
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Old 03-26-2008, 04:21 PM    (permalink
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Unless there's some conspiracy theory that I don't know about Ted Thompson didn't injure Javon Walker, Terrence Murphy, Robert Ferguson, Bubba Franks, Ahman Green, Najeh Davenport, Tony Fisher, Brady Poppinga, or Robert Thomas.

He didn't replace the guards effectively right away, but that's not the reason we went 4-12.
If you want to give him credit for going 13-3, then he must take credit for going 4-12 no matter what the cercumstances. Its only fair. Thats the job of a GM hate it or love it.
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Old 03-26-2008, 04:25 PM    (permalink
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05:
Terrence Murphy(Before career ending injury)
Marviel Underwood(Before career ending injury)
Brady Poppinga
Junius Coston

06:
Greg Jennings
Will Blackmon
Tony Moll
Johnny Jolly

07:
James Jones
Allen Barbre
Korey Hall
Mason Crosby




Most non-packers fans have never heard of most of these people. There only coveted to packers fans.
Well you should know about them. (well most of them, some shouldn't be on that list)

You've honestly never heard of Greg Jennings, Brady Poppinga, Johnny Jolly, Mason Crosby, Korey Hall, Tony Moll, or Junius Coston? All have started a good number of games. Or James Jones who had a great rookie year as the #3?
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Old 03-26-2008, 04:27 PM    (permalink
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Well you should know about them. (well most of them, some shouldn't be on that list)

You've honestly never heard of Greg Jennings, Brady Poppinga, Johnny Jolly, Mason Crosby, Korey Hall, Tony Moll, or Junius Coston? All have started a good number of games. Or James Jones who had a great rookie year as the #3?
I said most of them. You act like since they start for the Packers that they are very good players. Some of those guys dont even belong starting.

Noone really even showed interest in Poppinga as a FA.
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Old 03-26-2008, 04:27 PM    (permalink
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If you want to give him credit for going 13-3, then he must take credit for going 4-12 no matter what the cercumstances. Its only fair. Thats the job of a GM hate it or love it.
Well then Savage is a terrible GM because they were 6-10 and 4-12 before having one good year(that they missed the playoffs).
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Old 03-26-2008, 04:30 PM    (permalink
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The Colts had every reason? You think most of those fans would have bought an exspensive ticket to watch Jim Sorgie? Its just another recent reason this league is turning into a joke. They did have a reason to play them, its called maintaining chemistry, something they obviously lost when they got to the playoffs.

NFC East the toughest? But then you go on to say every division is tough? Thats not much support to your own statement.

And no every game isnt tough. Just ask the Titans who got an easy ride against the Colts because they rested all of their star players. tell me that was tough? Were the games for the Pats early this year very tough? how about when the Steelers killed the Browns, was that hard for them to?


GB had a very good year, but you can thank Brett Favre not Ted Thompson.

Here is a copy of your schedule and the results...
http://www.nfl.com/teams/schedule?team=GB

Other than the Cowboys and luckily getting to play the Giants during there 0-2 start, your schedule might have been the easiest in the NFL this year? Find me an easier one? Once the Giants got their team together they ended up beating you anyways. Plus your only true test against the Cowboys you lost.

Heres an interesting thing to look at (team deffense)
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...1&d-447263-n=1

Most of the teams the Packers got to play were ranked mid to bottom of the NFL in team deffense, Brett Favre was able to have a hay day before he retired. is it any wonder 5 of the top 6 deffensive teams play in the AFC?


Its funny but Ive noticed you haven't mentioned the fact that the Browns had their own destiny with 2 games to go, so you do realize coming up with stuff like "well we would of been in the playoffs if the colts could just play all 16 games" makes you look like a raging homer to everyone...The Bengals didnt have anything to play for either and they were playing like crap at the time, yet everyone crumbled when they realized the playoffs were a reality...How about mentioning that you didnt make the playoffs because Anderson threw 4 picks, even when he still had chances to win the game after his 3rd...

Your playoff ventures have nothing to do with the Colts playing all 16 games, you only have to blame yourselves, and whenever a fan is blinded by those reasons he's given the title a homer which you fit perfectly.
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Old 03-26-2008, 04:30 PM    (permalink
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I said most of them. You act like since they start for the Packers that they are very good players. Some of those guys dont even belong starting.
He said "look at some of the steals". Getting starters that late can be considered steals. And who exactly doesn't belong starting?(besides maybe Moll)
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Old 03-26-2008, 04:32 PM    (permalink
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Its funny but Ive noticed you haven't mentioned the fact that the Browns had their own destiny with 2 games to go, so you do realize coming up with stuff like "well we would of been in the playoffs if the colts could just play all 16 games" makes you look like a raging homer to everyone...The Bengals didnt have anything to play for either and they were playing like crap at the time, yet everyone crumbled when they realized the playoffs were a reality...How about mentioning that you didnt make the playoffs because Anderson threw 4 picks, even when he still had chances to win the game after his 3rd...

Your playoff ventures have nothing to do with the Colts playing all 16 games, you only have to blame yourselves, and whenever a fan is blinded by those reasons he's given the title a homer which you fit perfectly.
When the leaue had a meeting to discuss aligations into the Titans having an agreement with the Colts I think it goes beyong my homerism. Everyone one knows the friendship between Dungy and Fischer and it played a part in another teams destiny, every year teams have to rely on other aswell as thereselves thats how sports work.
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Old 03-26-2008, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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He said "look at some of the steals". Getting starters that late can be considered steals. And who exactly doesn't belong starting?(besides maybe Moll)
Why are you so in love with your own players that you have to fight me over this


IM A BROWNS FAN
YOUR A PACKERS

why must you insist on converting me with your opinion? I think we both like the make-up of ours team leave it at that.
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Old 03-26-2008, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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When the leaue had a meeting to discuss aligations into the Titans having an agreement with the Colts I think it goes beyong my homerism. Everyone one knows the friendship between Dungy and Fischer and it played a part in another teams destiny, every year teams have to rely on other aswell as thereselves thats how sports work.
Yet you fail to realize had you guys won out vs two sub par teams that game wouldnt of mattered anyway...Thats fine, toss around blame every other way, just dont act surprised when you get called a homer everywhere.
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Old 03-26-2008, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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according to record Ted Thompson was a horrible GM last year, but great this year.

In such little time I just dont feel it should be credited to the GM, when the core make-up of this team did not change. Ted Thompson is great, but hes getting credit that isnt his for this one.

Like another Packer fan said, health really helped this team, not there later round draft picks in there 13-3 season compared to 4-12.
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