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Old 03-30-2007, 01:42 PM    (permalink
Damix
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Probably your best one.
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Old 03-30-2007, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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Probably your best one.
Why thank you Damix. You just made my day. I feel so warm and cuddly inside.... I think i'm gonna cry.

I'm an idiot.
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Old 03-30-2007, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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the first 2 picks were really good and then it got alot worse as it went on
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Old 03-30-2007, 02:14 PM    (permalink
ricky bobby
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Can't please everyone. lol
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Old 03-30-2007, 02:26 PM    (permalink
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In terms of upside and potential, who is the better prospect?

Revis, Timmons, Poz, Mecheam, Jarrett, Beason OR Ginn?
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Old 03-30-2007, 03:08 PM    (permalink
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In this order

1. Timmons
2. Revis
3. Beason
4. Meachem
5. Jarrett
6.. Poz
7. Ginn
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Old 03-30-2007, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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1. Timmons
2. Revis
3. Beason
4. Meachem
4. Ginn
6. Jarrett
7. Poz
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Old 03-30-2007, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shockey+Manning=Shocking View Post
In terms of upside and potential, who is the better prospect?

Revis, Timmons, Poz, Mecheam, Jarrett, Beason OR Ginn?

Ginn and Timmons probably have the most potential to improve...


But I dont think that means anything. Poz, Jarrett and Revis all had amazing college careers. I mean how much better can a guy who won awards for being the DPOY twice and an award for being the best linebacker in the nation get?

Or a guy who USC's all-time receptions leader and the Pacific 10 Conference's all-time leader in touchdown receptions
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Old 03-30-2007, 03:31 PM    (permalink
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The reason I ask is I was talking to one of the sports writers, and he said from his opinion, he thinks the giants may go CB OR Wr in the first round, but will address WILL in the first day. ALso thinks that adding Mitchell gives us first round flexibility with our pick.

I am not a big mock guy, and dont really like them, but how does this sound.

1. WR
2. CB
3. LB

I dont know something like

Meachem
Wilson
Shaw/Bradley

This is basing it off what he said. I am not a big mock guy but perhaps we do that and go a different route than the Timmons, Poz pick most the media expect.
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Old 03-30-2007, 03:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shockey+Manning=Shocking View Post
The reason I ask is I was talking to one of the sports writers, and he said from his opinion, he thinks the giants may go CB OR Wr in the first round, but will address WILL in the first day. ALso thinks that adding Mitchell gives us first round flexibility with our pick.

I am not a big mock guy, and dont really like them, but how does this sound.

1. WR
2. CB
3. LB

I dont know something like

Meachem
Wilson
Shaw/Bradley

This is basing it off what he said. I am not a big mock guy but perhaps we do that and go a different route than the Timmons, Poz pick most the media expect.

I think it really depends on what the coaches think about Wilk, Blackburn, and Mitchell.

a 3rd round pick most likely isn't gonna be able to start right away, so it would really depend on whether they want to risk having 2 unproven players starting.


that said, It wouldnt shock me. I think CB, WR, and LB are the positions we are most likely to address on day one, possibly a safety or O-Line help
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Old 03-30-2007, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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I think it really depends on what the coaches think about Wilk, Blackburn, and Mitchell.

a 3rd round pick most likely isn't gonna be able to start right away, so it would really depend on whether they want to risk having 2 unproven players starting.


that said, It wouldnt shock me. I think CB, WR, and LB are the positions we are most likely to address on day one, possibly a safety or O-Line help

He said he doesnt know if the team is sold on Wilk, so we could possible draft one and let them battle it out, but thinks CB and WR are most likely.

So it will be interesting i can say that. I am hoping for a LB, but expecting CB. If we go WR i think that would truly suprise me the most.
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Old 03-30-2007, 05:08 PM    (permalink
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I actually quite like the new mock, Ricky Bobby.

Generally liked all the picks, and even the Craig Davis one despite the fact I'm not the biggest supporter of taking a receiver on the first day.

Also really loved the James Marten pick in the third. He might be a steal, and looks like he could shape up to be a good Left Tackle prospect, and at the very least gives us some depth if Diehl starts.


As for the idea of a CB or WR in the first, Shocking+Manning, I'm not so sure that happens. I agree I don't think we'll take a linebacker in the first unless we trade down to get one, but even then, I think cornerback is the most likely draft choice - because it seems to be that both Revis and Houston have starting potential right off the bat. At the very least they can do a good job at the Nickel back posistion.
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Old 03-30-2007, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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I actually quite like the new mock, Ricky Bobby.

Generally liked all the picks, and even the Craig Davis one despite the fact I'm not the biggest supporter of taking a receiver on the first day.

Also really loved the James Marten pick in the third. He might be a steal, and looks like he could shape up to be a good Left Tackle prospect, and at the very least gives us some depth if Diehl starts.


As for the idea of a CB or WR in the first, Shocking+Manning, I'm not so sure that happens. I agree I don't think we'll take a linebacker in the first unless we trade down to get one, but even then, I think cornerback is the most likely draft choice - because it seems to be that both Revis and Houston have starting potential right off the bat. At the very least they can do a good job at the Nickel back posistion.
I mean, dont get me wrong I hope we get a LB, but CB and WR i think it boils down too. If we trade down than so be it, but it will be interesting how everything plays out.
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Old 03-30-2007, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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I mean, dont get me wrong I hope we get a LB, but CB and WR i think it boils down too. If we trade down than so be it, but it will be interesting how everything plays out.
I agree, I think the draft day for the Giants will be very interesting watching it all play out, Jerry Reese has a lot of options he can make with us moving down.

Would love to get some more picks if we could.
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Old 03-30-2007, 09:06 PM    (permalink
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In terms of upside, I don't understand how anyone can say Ginn does not have the highest out of those guys. His speed is world class and if he realizes his potential as a WR and avoids these speculated injuries you haters talk about, you're talking about an ubelievable career.
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Old 03-30-2007, 09:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shockey+Manning=Shocking View Post
In terms of upside and potential, who is the better prospect?

Revis, Timmons, Poz, Mecheam, Jarrett, Beason OR Ginn?
And he here are my answers-

1-Ginn
2-Meachem
3-Revis
4-Timmons
5-Jarrett
6-Posluszny
7-Jarrett
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Old 03-30-2007, 09:53 PM    (permalink
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In terms of upside, I don't understand how anyone can say Ginn does not have the highest out of those guys. His speed is world class and if he realizes his potential as a WR and avoids these speculated injuries you haters talk about, you're talking about an ubelievable career.
My concerns about him aren't really about his injuries, but more about his one dimensional game. I mean, almost all the plays I see him scoring on are deep seam routes. That might work in college, but in the pros an NFL safety and double coverage will make it much harder for him to do that.

Sure I've seen him take a few balls over the middle and out race everyone to the end zone. That's in college, not in the NFL - it won't be that easy anymore.

I'd also like to note that Scott himself answered on another site for the Giants that taking Ginn would be a bad idea for the Giants when we had Sinorice Moss all ready as our deep threat.

..and finally, I don't see how taking Ginn makes us better next year or in the years to come. Sure, maybe he'll take two or three touchdowns back in the kick return game, but when it comes down to it, that won't do much good when we're getting beat deep on defense.

Moss hasn't even had a chance to prove himself in either the kick return game or as a receiver. He took a couple of kicks and got it to the thirty a couple of times. Most of Hester's kicks did the same, so it's impossible to judge him off so few chances.

Now, if Moss had been with us for three or four years now, and hadn't done anything, I'd say sure..why not? We need to give him at least one full healthy year and let us hope that Gilbride will find a way to make sure his skills come into play.

Then, in next years draft, if the defensive picks worked out and we're in good shape at the offensive line, then let's go and get a good wide out in the first round. I mean, look at all the depth in this years draft for wide receiver. We can probably get a solid guy like Brandon Myles, Johnnie Lee Higgins or numerous other receivers that can step in an at the very least as a fourth wide receiver and be better than Tim Carter.

Sorry Number 10, I don't mean to come down so hard on you about Ginn - it's just I truly can't see us taking him in the first when we've got much more important needs on the offensive line, secondary and linebacker posistion. If for some reason he falls to us in the second, I'd be more than happy to get him.
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Old 03-30-2007, 10:12 PM    (permalink
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Even though we all want that rookie that is going to come in and make the immediate impact that guys like Colsten, Ryans, Bush..etc had, the draft is about the future. Look at our WR corps right now.

Plax is a legit #1 threat but he is going to be 30, and has at least one spell of back spasms every year that keep him out of a game. Toomer is likely on his last leg, and then we have next to nothing. Look at what happened when Toomer went down...Eli had nothing to work with and it really made our offense take a step back.

Yeh you can talk about being patient with Moss and don't get me wrong, I still like him and think he can do some good things for us. But waiting a couple years and then drafting a WR won't do it for me because a guy like Ginn does not come around very often. His speed is world class and can do things most of us have never seen inside of Giants Stadium.
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Old 03-30-2007, 10:47 PM    (permalink
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Even though we all want that rookie that is going to come in and make the immediate impact that guys like Colsten, Ryans, Bush..etc had, the draft is about the future. Look at our WR corps right now.

Plax is a legit #1 threat but he is going to be 30, and has at least one spell of back spasms every year that keep him out of a game. Toomer is likely on his last leg, and then we have next to nothing. Look at what happened when Toomer went down...Eli had nothing to work with and it really made our offense take a step back.

Yeh you can talk about being patient with Moss and don't get me wrong, I still like him and think he can do some good things for us. But waiting a couple years and then drafting a WR won't do it for me because a guy like Ginn does not come around very often. His speed is world class and can do things most of us have never seen inside of Giants Stadium.
I totally understand where u are coming from- but why not next year? why not draft a great rookie WR 1st round next year. Im all for a WR in the 2nd or 3rd round if its a steal and a good pick, but i just think our defense needs to be shored up first. Teams win with defense. It has basically been a fact the past 10 super bowls or so with the exception of the colts, but even so their defense played amazing which is why they did win. if we could develop great young talent @ CB, OLB, we already have it @ the dline we could really be a force. The future @ WR can be addressed next year. Plax is 30 yes but 30 for a WR is not old. If we get a guy in the 2nd round lets say like if jarrett falls to us, however unlikely but possible, we can still do well on offense this year. It is obviously true that our WR do not run routes great and cannot separate from coverage but i think if moss can progress and play all year, plax, a healthy toomer and a good rookie will be fine this year
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Old 03-30-2007, 11:11 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by hugegmenfan View Post
I totally understand where u are coming from- but why not next year? why not draft a great rookie WR 1st round next year. Im all for a WR in the 2nd or 3rd round if its a steal and a good pick, but i just think our defense needs to be shored up first. Teams win with defense. It has basically been a fact the past 10 super bowls or so with the exception of the colts, but even so their defense played amazing which is why they did win. if we could develop great young talent @ CB, OLB, we already have it @ the dline we could really be a force. The future @ WR can be addressed next year. Plax is 30 yes but 30 for a WR is not old. If we get a guy in the 2nd round lets say like if jarrett falls to us, however unlikely but possible, we can still do well on offense this year. It is obviously true that our WR do not run routes great and cannot separate from coverage but i think if moss can progress and play all year, plax, a healthy toomer and a good rookie will be fine this year
Because like I have said more than a few times, a prospect like Ginn is incredibly rare. There are not many instances where you are sitting at 20 and a player like Ginn is there to grab. We need more speed at WR, guys that can get seperation. We need guys that can make plays with the ball in their hand. We need a return man that can consistently get us good field position and put some points on the board. We need someone that can gain seperation for himself and our other targets so Eli doesn't have to fit the ball into tight spots all the time. We get all that with a guy like Ginn.
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Old 03-30-2007, 11:21 PM    (permalink
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Even though we all want that rookie that is going to come in and make the immediate impact that guys like Colsten, Ryans, Bush..etc had, the draft is about the future. Look at our WR corps right now.

Plax is a legit #1 threat but he is going to be 30, and has at least one spell of back spasms every year that keep him out of a game. Toomer is likely on his last leg, and then we have next to nothing. Look at what happened when Toomer went down...Eli had nothing to work with and it really made our offense take a step back.

Yeh you can talk about being patient with Moss and don't get me wrong, I still like him and think he can do some good things for us. But waiting a couple years and then drafting a WR won't do it for me because a guy like Ginn does not come around very often. His speed is world class and can do things most of us have never seen inside of Giants Stadium.
I agree with what your saying to a certain point, but I don't see how us taking Ginn helps us in the future or next season. We've got potentially good player in Moss, Burress is 30 which as Hugegmenfan stated, isn't exceptionally old for a receiver, and it's impossible to tell how Amani will do, but it was only a minor tear - not a full blown ACL rupture.

I mean, I know Ted Ginn is fast, but speed among receivers isn't as rare as it use to be. More and more you see fast guys like Sinorice, Santana, Steve Smith and so on. All he really has is speed. I mean, he doesn't have great hands - they're good, but he'll drop some - he's not a great route runner (which Eli doesn't need), and he'll get stuffed in press coverage.

Having watched a lot of Ohio State games over the past year and I can say that he really is a one dimensional player at the receiver posistion and I think once he goes up against an NFL defense they'll keep him in check far more.

Why not sure up the defense and then draft a guy like Yamon Figurs in the fourth round? He's about the same size as Ginn and has comparable speed if that's what we need in a receiver.

Like I said though, Number 10, you make a good point and if our cornerback situation wasn't so terrible for this year (and more importantly, the future) I would really consider the Giants taking a guy like Ginn as a good thing, even though we've got Moss. That said, our Cornerback posistion is far worse off than our wide receiver posistion. Even if Webster does have a break out year, we've got two old guys in Madison and McQuarters for the future.

Just my opinion on Ginn though mind you..not neccesarily fact.
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Old 03-30-2007, 11:49 PM    (permalink
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Eli's struggles after Toomer went down can def be more attributed to Luke going down at the same time then Toomer
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Old 03-31-2007, 12:07 AM    (permalink
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Eli's struggles after Toomer went down can def be more attributed to Luke going down at the same time then Toomer
The loss of Toomer had a much larger impact. I have watched each game about 5 times each this the season ended and I have to be honest, our play at LT after Petitgout was done really wasn't all that bad. Obvious downgrade by Whitfield was decent for 4-5 games as was Diehl. I can't say that about any WRs that tried to replace Amani. Our depth at WR is scary bad.
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Old 03-31-2007, 01:04 AM    (permalink
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A few numbers....

The 5 weeks before Petitgout went down: 65.09 QB rating, 6 TDs, 6 INTs, 823 yards, 51.7%

After: 71.80 QB rating, 9 TDs, 7 INTs, 1,272 yards, 55.4%.

And in the 4 games before Toomer got hurt, he'd caught just 8 passes for 72 yards and 0 touchdowns (that's an average of 2 receptions for 18 yards). He didn't have any dropped passes and Eli completed 64% of his attempts to him.

(Taken from another forum)
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Old 03-31-2007, 10:18 AM    (permalink
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The loss of Toomer had a much larger impact. I have watched each game about 5 times each this the season ended and I have to be honest, our play at LT after Petitgout was done really wasn't all that bad. Obvious downgrade by Whitfield was decent for 4-5 games as was Diehl. I can't say that about any WRs that tried to replace Amani. Our depth at WR is scary bad.
Again though, I don't understand how there's even a question on the wide receiver depth compared to the cornerback depth.

There is no question in my mind that cornerback needs help far more than receiver does. We've got some decent depth at receiver where if Madison gets injured again, who are we left with? Webster who hasn't proven him self yet (he may do well this year, may not) RW McQuarters? I don't know about you, but I'd be a lot happier with someone like Houston or Revis there for some much needed depth and the future. I mean, even if Amani goes down, at least we've got Sinorice, Plaxico and even David Tyree isn't the worst wide receiver I've ever seen if he needed to take the slot.

I mean, there is HUGE depth at wide receiver year, maybe the some of the best we've ever seen. Why not take a guy later in the second, third or fourth? Cornerback depth won't last that long for us, wide receiver depth in the draft will.
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