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Bears 21 46.67%
Lions 2 4.44%
Packers 11 24.44%
Vikings 11 24.44%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-28-2008, 06:44 PM    (permalink
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Yahoo is dumb. Who did they want us to take for the seconday? We had much more pressing needs.
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Old 04-28-2008, 06:46 PM    (permalink
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Jordy Nelson is not a deep threat WR with 4.51 speed. He's a good WR, but not a deep threat.

I do like Patrick Lee though but I have to disagree with Green Bay having the best draft on paper. And Yahoo really isn't a source I'd use to grade drafts anyway.

But it doesn't really matter, we'll find out in 2-3 years.
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Despite looking better against an underachieving Eagles team, I still think the Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL. I smell a blowout victory by the Lions this week and a division sweep.
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Old 04-28-2008, 07:00 PM    (permalink
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Here's Gosselin's take:

Chicago - A - The Bears subscribe to the big-school drafting philosophy and found quality throughout the draft. WR Bennett in the third, S Steltz in the fourth, CB Bowman in the fifth and WR Monk in the seventh were all value picks.

Detroit - A - The Lions wanted to make this a defensive draft and selected three potential starters in the first three rounds. But their run(mine) offense, the NFL's worst last season, may benefit even more from the arrival of OT Cherilus and RB Smith.

Green Bay - B - The Packers traded out of the first round and then turned in the best second round of the draft. Brohm gives them insurance for Aaron Rodgers, Lee gives them another big corner, and Nelson is a big-body, big-play receiver.

Minnesota - C - The Vikings sent their first- and third-round picks to Kansas City in the deal for NFL sack leader Jared Allen, which slowed this draft down. But getting S Johnson at No. 43 was a bargain, and Booty provides insurance at quarterback.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...s.3945201.html
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Old 04-28-2008, 09:15 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by sweetness34 View Post
Jordy Nelson is not a deep threat WR with 4.51 speed. He's a good WR, but not a deep threat.
I'm not commenting per say on yours here but I ust though I would bring this up...

Nor does he need to be, he's going to get most his big plays off YAC, which he is great at.
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Old 04-29-2008, 12:02 AM    (permalink
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By that reasoning Grant Should be included with the Packers draft as a 6th rounder.
You mean Samkon Gado version 2.0?
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Old 04-29-2008, 12:03 AM    (permalink
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If you include Jared Allen, then the best draft was probably Minnesota's, as they got the player they needed, while also adding a potential impact safety in the 2nd and picking up an intriguing WR option in Jaymar Johnson.

That said, if you don't include Allen, then the best draft was either Chicago or Detroit. Detroit did what it had to. No studs perhaps, but they added some OL help, got a potential lead back. They got Dizon inside, and Campbell might be able to challenge at SAM, although Paris will move there. Fluellen and Avril add much needed DL depth. I like the Avril pick up. He may simply be a situational 4-3 pass rusher, but he could also develop into an open side end terror.

I'm usually pretty fair about these things, and I honestly do believe the Bears had the best draft. They directly addressed almost all their needs for the short term. Now, long term, there are questions, but the focus was short term and

a) We got a ready LT, which kicks Tait to RT, improving two spots on the OL.
b) We got a big back that can challenge Benson, and that may be the favorite already
c) We got arguably the most ready WR in the draft, and another WR that could be intriguing (although likelihood is PS or not on roster)
d) We needed a potential 0, and Harrison has the talent.
e) We needed a SS to challenge. Check in Steltz, who could start.
f) We needed a blocking TE. Check with Kellen Davis.

Now, I would've liked to see more OL earlier. I like Barton, but injuries worry, and Adams is developmental. That said, Beekman could challenge from last year, despite being groomed for center, and Metcalf/St. Clair could be stopgaps (although doubt they move St. Clair inside)

It's not inconceivable that this draft will provide the Bears with say, 5 starters this upcoming season. Of course, that's all assumption, and I'll be the first to say the "upside" in this draft is somewhat limited. But it addressed immediate needs.
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Old 04-29-2008, 01:42 AM    (permalink
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You mean Samkon Gado version 2.0?
Come one now, even you can't believe that one is true.

When was the last time ol' Samkon rushed for 2 bills in a playoff game?
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Old 04-29-2008, 03:19 AM    (permalink
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I am leaving Jared Allen out of the draft discussion. If you want to talk about off-season, fine. But he wasn't even a draft day trade. Ryan Grant for a 6th rounder pwns Jared Allen for a 1st rounder, 2 3rds and a bottle of Bacardi.

Also, everyone but the Packers picking in the middle of the rounds.

Anyways, The picks themselves should be looked at, not so much the needs of the team, or look at the needs and then look at the player.

Alphabetically:

Chicago Bears (7-9): Even though the Bears still suck, they did a nice job. They're moving Tait to RT, so Chris Williams is a day 1 starter at LT. This gives me major wood thinking of Cullen Jenkins and KGB abusing him. Anyways, this guy is gonna be a 5-10 year starter and they make Tait better by having him play RT. I don't like the Matt Forte pick. I didn't like it for GB (and we passed on him) and I don't like it for the Bears, except in a rival Hah-Hah you took Forte and Benson is a bust type of liking. AP and Wolfe are role players, but which one gets cut now with Forte on board? I like Thomas Jones more than Forte or anyone on the roster now, but that ship has sailed. Evidently the Bears only scouted Vanderbilt. Earl Bennett does not impress me but he definitely is a need considering the stiffs on the roster right now. I was not pleased to see Steltz become a Bear. He's good and it seems there's always an injury for one of the safeties. I wanted Bowman to be a Packer and I had him in my Packers mock as a fifth rounder. He's a boom/bust guy with great talent but a terrible injury. I don't know if he'll give them anything this year, but he has starting potential. Kellen Davis is a nice pick, though he'll be the third TE. He is not a good blocker and Olsen and Clark are better receivers and I thought Gilmore was a nice player, so not a great fit IMO. But I fully understand BPA after four years of Ted. They had five 7th round picks, and the first three do nothing for me. I doubt they make the team. I think Kirk Barton and Marcus Monk are very nice players at good value, though. An interesting draft with some high risk/high reward players and 12 selections. Considering the BEars were picking mid-round they had some decent value for a number of guys, I think they reached on some others.
Grade: A-

Detroit Lions (7-9): A nice draft. They took Cherilus high, as he was a late 1st rounder, but maybe they couldn't trade down at will like Ted Thompson can. Who wants to talk to Matt Millen? No one takes him seriously after he has sucked for so long and not been fired because he huffs Ford choad. Anyone else watch the senior bowl with Cherilus kicking around Chris Long and Glenn Dorsey? I haven't followed Dizon, but now they have two good LBs. I laugh every time I see our scrub Lenon still on the Lions. Happiness is your division rivals signing players not good enough to be on your team. I love Kevin Smith, almost as much as I love the lineman that opened those huge holes he ran through... ;D Smith and Felton address the run game and ditching Martz makes it likely they'll even be used for more than 5 plays a game. Three guys on the D-line (Avril being a 3-4 LB not-withstanding) to try to replace Rodgers and keep the defense from getting savaged up the gut a solid move. Looks like some needs met, some guys reached for, some guys good value for and they avoided drafted Devin Harris in round one. The QB situation still does not impress me, but maybe Stanton will press for a starting job this year.
Grade: B.

Green Bay Packers (13-3): Division winner with 20 out of 22 players coming back. Heck, if we drafted solely for the purpose of beating the Bears that would take the Packers to 15-1... ;D Maybe not, but there are still 20 starters coming back, plus the 6 guys who were on IR. What blows is that Favre is gone. When I look at Dallas, Frisco and Miami and what happened after their HoF QB left, it is just not pretty, except when Joe Montana left and was replaced by Young. I am hoping that is what happens with GB. The defense is strong, the special teams are a point of emphasis and the GM has secured a number of non-QB playmakers. Anyways...
GB traded out of the first round and took Jordy Nelson. Most players have nice highlight reels, but young Jordy has one with two TD passes thrown, 2 PR returns for TDs and a slew of big catches and TDs. He pwned Aqib Talib. The problem? He'll have to impress beyond initial belief to be the 3rd WR on the roster and could very well be the 5th on the depth chart. I'm glad he has PR skills. Just like Rodgers falling to GB a couple years ago, a starting quality QB fell to the Packers in R2 with Brohm. Look at the stats. The winning, the big numbers, the solid competition he put those numbers up against. He'll be the #2 QB just like Brunell was the #2 QB behind Favre all those years ago. If Rodgers gets hurt, Brohm still gives the Packers a chance to win instead of having a season Ortoned, Jacksoned or Orlovskyed if there's an injury to the starter. 60 QBs started for the 32 teams last year. This is a solid need/value choice as Brohm has starting QB potential and the Packers had ONE active QB on the roster prior to the draft. Patrick Lee completes a very solid R2. He's an Al Harris clone with his physical nature, but he runs better than Al did in his youth. Jermichael Finley a nice talent at TE but he's raw. TT passed on every TE taken over the past 3 years but took Finley. Not Dustin Keller or any of the other higher rated guys. Finley will be the #2, or maybe #3 TE and the team is not too worried due to Donald Lee and going a legitimate 6 deep with the WRs. Jeremy Thompson likely to back Aaron Kampman up, which is good because he reminds me of Kampman a lot. A couple of linemen next, my favorite being Kevin Smith's main mauler. Josh Sitton has starting potential for this year and he can play all three positions on the line. think Breno is headed for the practice squad. Next is Matt Flynn. He's a national champion and played his best in the biggest game. He'll be the #3 QB, which is fine for a 7th rounder. Bill Swain in the end of the 7th is a practice squad guy unless there are a run of injuries in the wideouts. That's 9 picks and a trade that turns a 7th rounder into a 6th rounder next year. Mission accomplished on close to every area with the exception of the DBs. It might have been decided that the DBs shouldn't be going out by themselves.
Grade: A-

Minnesota Vikings (8-8): Not many picks. Tyrell Johnson a good player, maybe taken a touch high, but he wouldn't have been there the next pick. John David Booty did not impress me. He didn't impress Ted either, as Ted passed on him and took Flynn a couple rounds later. Look at how many players USC had drafted and JDB could not bring home the trophy with all that talent. I watch a lot of PAC-10 games and he just never did anything for me. That being said, he's better than what they got, which is just a total indictment on the Viking QB situation. Leroy Guion landed in the right situation as he can sit behind some very good DTs and perfect his craft. I don't think he'll make an impact whatsoever this year, but after a couple years of growth and coaching might be something. I thought his kid was going to be a UDFA considering he came out early after only one year of starting, but the cheating scandal drove him pro. Sullivan reminds me a little of PAckers center Scott Wells, but Scott did not have the bad senior season that Sullivan did. I thought Sullivan might have been an R7 guy, if drafted at all. Jaymar Johnson is so skinny he might blow away when hit by a strong Chicago wind. He's not amazingly fast and there were a stack of guys rated higher. Viking coaches liked him, so maybe they saw some things on his tape that made him take this kid in the 6th instead of trading down. I don't see anyone but Tyrell making an impact towards winning games this year. In five years, Johnson, Sullivan and Guion could make this a solid draft IF they progress, but otherwise this looks like a one player draft.
Grade: D, with Tyrell keeping this from being an F.


That makes it:
1) Bears (I'll give them the tie-breaker as they picked a starter with their R1 pick)
2) Packers
3) Lion
4) Vikings
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Old 04-29-2008, 03:31 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by sweetness34 View Post
Jordy Nelson is not a deep threat WR with 4.51 speed. He's a good WR, but not a deep threat.

I do like Patrick Lee though but I have to disagree with Green Bay having the best draft on paper. And Yahoo really isn't a source I'd use to grade drafts anyway.

But it doesn't really matter, we'll find out in 2-3 years.
Watch more tape, read less 40 times. If he was on a track field in street clothes that 40 time might matter! Is he a Lee Evans type of deep threat? No. Can he run by people with deceptively good/great speed? In college he did!

It's obviously tough grading out drafts right now.. but.. I like the Packers' and Bears' the best. The Bears obviously will have more impact rookies but the Packers got really good prospects that fit their system and provide a lot of security and mid-to-long range benefit.

I went homer and voted Packers, because I love our draft, but the Bears definitely have upside in their draft as well. And if you include the Allen trade, the Vikings are the clear winner.
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Old 04-29-2008, 09:53 AM    (permalink
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Seriously? Giving the Packers an A- because they picked nice backup players?

Sure their team is great and they dont have alot of needs. But if the only draft Backup Players that makes it ******...Picking starting caliber players to backup, thats great drafting and a lucky position. Defending a pick with: But well the team is great so what ever we did, the team is still great so the draft is great.....
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Old 04-29-2008, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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Looking simply at the value of picks is a silly way to judge a draft. That's a Matt Millen draft. The most important question is if the draft helped your team. Obviously the Bears are going to beat the Packers in that regard no matter what the outcome because the Bears needed a lot more help and had much better picks. That's the way the draft goes if you aren't an idiot like Millen.

That said, I still think the Packers could have helped themselves a little more. It's really hard to justify the Jordy Nelson pick. Really hard. I actually think that Packers fans are lying to themselves when doing it. The whole "we aren't a team with holes" argument is a little weak as well. Your secondary is old and isn't really that good. You're telling me that Kenny Phillips wouldn't have helped your team more than Jordy Nelson? Hell, they could have taken Tracey Porter at 36 and then taken Patrick Lee and that would have made more sense too. That said, I think Nelson will start the year as the #3, as I've never been that impressed with James Jones. You've got to keep in mind that your receivers have always benefitted by having Favre throw to them. Name one receiver that left Green Bay and had the same production elsewhere. I can't. That security blanket is gone now, and I do think you'll realize that the rest of your offense isn't as good as you think it is (cough* Ryan Grant *cough*)

I really liked the Brian Brohm pick. If it hurts Rodgers' feelings then he should work at a nursery and not play professional football. I wish someone would have hurt Grossman's feelings two years ago instead of handing him a job with no production to back it up. Rodgers needs to be tested, you can't assume that he'll be the guy. No matter what the FO says.

Lee was a fine pick, and basically everything down the road filled in depth.

I'll give the Packers a solid B. But you really can't say much more than that because the impact from this class will likely be pretty minimal unless Brohm becomes your starting QB.
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Old 04-29-2008, 11:27 AM    (permalink
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The Lions seem to have the biggest divergence amongst people analyzing the draft people either love it or hate it there is very few neutrals (like me)

To address what I hear a lot about Cherilius being a reach I'm not so sure that Houston wouldn't have pulled the trigger on him had he fallen to them. I don't like Dizon as a MLB but he could be a serviceable SAM next year when we take a Laurenitis or Mugulio (SP? on both) next year solidifying a great LB corps for years to come. (NOTE: even if we don't pick that high I would seriously trade 2 first round picks to secure one of those guys they are that good.)

That said I think the Bears had the best draft in the NFC North. They didn't draft a QB but I'm not too sure that is a bad thing. Don't get me wrong I think Chad Henne is going to be a great pro QB. But I think next years QB class will be head and shoulders better than this one. They got a steal IMO in Marcus Monk. Also grabbed Forte right in front of the Lions noses.

(Hey Rod this is why you don't unveil your draft strategy all the players you wanted were all gone)


EDIT: According to fan polls on NFL.com

Fan Draft Grades:

Bears: C - My guess is they are mad about not getting a QB.
Lions: B - They are too happy to see Millen not draft a WR in day 1.
Pakers: B - Really? 2 QBs? I don't think they have much faith in Rogers.
Vikings: B - If you include Allen in the draft then it isn't all that bad. They filled their major need with a pro bowler. At first I thought it was too much but then seeing Jacksonville trade the same amount for Derrick Harvey it made me think twice.
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Old 04-29-2008, 01:28 PM    (permalink
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I'll admit that the bears are starting to look like idiots for passing on a Qb every single year, but giving them a C and the rest a better grade is nucking futs. I have a hard time justifying them passing on Brohm in the second. I like the RB, but it's much easier to find a RB than a good QB.

BF I have a sneaking suspicion you'll be eating you're words on Grant just like you did with Jennings.
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Old 04-29-2008, 01:29 PM    (permalink
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Minnesota Vikings (8-8): Not many picks. Tyrell Johnson a good player, maybe taken a touch high, but he wouldn't have been there the next pick. John David Booty did not impress me. He didn't impress Ted either, as Ted passed on him and took Flynn a couple rounds later. Look at how many players USC had drafted and JDB could not bring home the trophy with all that talent. I watch a lot of PAC-10 games and he just never did anything for me. That being said, he's better than what they got, which is just a total indictment on the Viking QB situation. Leroy Guion landed in the right situation as he can sit behind some very good DTs and perfect his craft. I don't think he'll make an impact whatsoever this year, but after a couple years of growth and coaching might be something. I thought his kid was going to be a UDFA considering he came out early after only one year of starting, but the cheating scandal drove him pro. Sullivan reminds me a little of PAckers center Scott Wells, but Scott did not have the bad senior season that Sullivan did. I thought Sullivan might have been an R7 guy, if drafted at all. Jaymar Johnson is so skinny he might blow away when hit by a strong Chicago wind. He's not amazingly fast and there were a stack of guys rated higher. Viking coaches liked him, so maybe they saw some things on his tape that made him take this kid in the 6th instead of trading down. I don't see anyone but Tyrell making an impact towards winning games this year. In five years, Johnson, Sullivan and Guion could make this a solid draft IF they progress, but otherwise this looks like a one player draft.
Grade: D, with Tyrell keeping this from being an F.
This was a good draft they got longterm security at SS by finding Sharpers replacement. Also got their eventual replacement for Birk in the 6th. Along with a solid backup QB prospect in the 5th. A C+ I would accept but a D is just Ridiculous.
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Old 04-29-2008, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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Seriously? Giving the Packers an A- because they picked nice backup players?

Sure their team is great and they dont have alot of needs. But if the only draft Backup Players that makes it ******...Picking starting caliber players to backup, thats great drafting and a lucky position. Defending a pick with: But well the team is great so what ever we did, the team is still great so the draft is great.....
Even if we had a pick in the teens we probably wouldn't get a starter. 4 of our first 5 picks will see the field rotationally this year, that's pretty good.

Nelson: 3rd WR (we use up to 5)
Lee: Nickel or dime CB
Finley: 2nd TE (we rotated 2 last year)
Thompson: Rotational DE (backs up Kampman who played like 95% of snaps last year, we were looking for someone to rest him)

So that's a pretty good start, but in addition to that these are how they project in the future:
Nelson: starter, 2nd or 3rd
Lee: starter
Finley: probably starter
Thompson: maybe starter

So we get 2-4 starters and a starting quality QB as insurance. So we got a good number of starting quality players who develop as backups and great insurance for the most important position in football. I'd probably take Brohm over any other NFCN QB...he's a rookie so right now he's not better but he probably will be in a couple years.
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Old 04-29-2008, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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I'll admit that the bears are starting to look like idiots for passing on a Qb every single year, but giving them a C and the rest a better grade is nucking futs. I have a hard time justifying them passing on Brohm in the second. I like the RB, but it's much easier to find a RB than a good QB.

BF I have a sneaking suspicion you'll be eating you're words on Grant just like you did with Jennings.
I don't think he's really Samkon Gado bad, I was just making a funny.

I also don't think he's a top 10 back, which I've heard from a lot of Packers fans.

I also still don't think Greg Jennings is all that great. I've had tons of Packers fans say that Jennings is better than Berrian. I'd like to see if Jennings could ge the money Berrian got on the open market. I kinda doubt it. I never said Jennings was bad, he's just not as good as Packers fans think he is. I still think that.


And yes, we really need to draft a QB, but we really needed to replace Benson too. Benson is worse than Orton/Grossman, which is very depressing.
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Old 04-29-2008, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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I think the Packers will cut KGB, which will give Thompson a lot more time.
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Old 04-29-2008, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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I think the Packers will cut KGB, which will give Thompson a lot more time.
He had a lot of sacks last year, I think he sticks for another year. We have a lot of use for a pass rush specialist and that isn't what Thompson is. He really reminds me of Kampman coming into the league.
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Old 04-29-2008, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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I think the Packers will cut KGB, which will give Thompson a lot more time.
I could easily see that, but at the same time I could also see them moving Jenkins inside more often, to a degree taking over Williams role, and playing Thompson much more as an every down player. I think it all depends on Thompson's performance early on.


Also, I'm curious as to your Berrian being better than Jennings, I'm not disagreeing, rahter curious with your reasoning. Did Jennings not have more production last season as a second year player and three less games? I'll also say that you must take that with a grain of salt as well because Jennings had Favre and was surrounded by better WRs and a better offense too.
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Old 05-01-2008, 05:20 PM    (permalink
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I've had tons of Packers fans say that Jennings is better than Berrian. I'd like to see if Jennings could ge the money Berrian got on the open market.
Is this a joke?
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Old 05-01-2008, 06:44 PM    (permalink
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I also still don't think Greg Jennings is all that great. I've had tons of Packers fans say that Jennings is better than Berrian. I'd like to see if Jennings could ge the money Berrian got on the open market. I kinda doubt it. I never said Jennings was bad, he's just not as good as Packers fans think he is. I still think that.

And now all of a sudden money decides player's talent? We've seen GM's over or under pay guys all the time. I dont think Kampman is paid what he's actually worth, does that make Kampman a bad DE?
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Old 05-01-2008, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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And now all of a sudden money decides player's talent? We've seen GM's over or under pay guys all the time. I dont think Kampman is paid what he's actually worth, does that make Kampman a bad DE?
If he was on the market right now he'd get a ton thrown at him.
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Old 05-01-2008, 09:18 PM    (permalink
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If he was on the market right now he'd get a ton thrown at him.
The point is players arent always as good or bad as their salary indicates.
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Old 05-01-2008, 10:17 PM    (permalink
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Well if that's not the point then why did you bring it up? Kampman would get paid a truck load of money. Greg Jennings would not. Bad example.
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Old 05-01-2008, 10:26 PM    (permalink
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I
I also still don't think Greg Jennings is all that great. I've had tons of Packers fans say that Jennings is better than Berrian. I'd like to see if Jennings could ge the money Berrian got on the open market. I kinda doubt it. I never said Jennings was bad, he's just not as good as Packers fans think he is. I still think that.
Wow, for real? What makes you think that?
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