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Old 01-27-2009, 10:57 AM    (permalink
BroadwayJoe10
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Oh and because I'll start to pimp him in full force in about a month or so...

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He's a stud as well. It's going to be interesting to see what direction we go with our first rounder. I'm sure things will shake out as the year progresses, but this is the first year where I really have absolutely no idea what direction we'll be heading in. It's fairly exciting.
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Old 01-27-2009, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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Oh and because I'll start to pimp him in full force in about a month or so...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWakmo3_m2s
Well, I'll say this. I think Hicks as a future in the NFL and if I thought the Jets just needed *a* wide receiver, I'd be fine with Hakeem Nicks. But I see the Jets current receivers and I see a need for a guy with elite speed who can stretch the field which I don't think Nicks has.
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Old 01-27-2009, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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Well, I'll say this. I think Hicks as a future in the NFL and if I thought the Jets just needed *a* wide receiver, I'd be fine with Hakeem Nicks. But I see the Jets current receivers and I see a need for a guy with elite speed who can stretch the field which I don't think Nicks has.
I agree I like Nicks but he does not have the blazing speed or the hieght. Either we take someome who can burn his defender on deep routes or get a tall WR who can get the jump balls.
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Old 01-27-2009, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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Well, I'll say this. I think Hicks as a future in the NFL and if I thought the Jets just needed *a* wide receiver, I'd be fine with Hakeem Nicks. But I see the Jets current receivers and I see a need for a guy with elite speed who can stretch the field which I don't think Nicks has.
Yeah, that's just something I guess I disagree with everyone else on. Since there isn't some phenom like a CJ in here or maybe the second coming of Steve Smith (the better one), we'd just be getting a burner in this draft if we went with a speed guy since none of the "elite speed" guys in this draft happen to be particularly good route runners nor are they especially physical. I don't know. That's just not something I particularly want to waste an early round pick on, and I'm not entirely sure Clowney can't almost bring exactly what they'd bring to the table. But with Nicks, I just feel like we're getting the best WR, and I don't think it really matters if you get a guy that can really stretch the field if you're getting a higher caliber WR. We'll see though.
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Old 01-27-2009, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, that's just something I guess I disagree with everyone else on. Since there isn't some phenom like a CJ in here or maybe the second coming of Steve Smith (the better one), we'd just be getting a burner in this draft if we went with a speed guy since none of the "elite speed" guys in this draft happen to be particularly good route runners nor are they especially physical. I don't know. That's just not something I particularly want to waste an early round pick on, and I'm not entirely sure Clowney can't almost bring exactly what they'd bring to the table. But with Nicks, I just feel like we're getting the best WR, and I don't think it really matters if you get a guy that can really stretch the field if you're getting a higher caliber WR. We'll see though.
I'm going to have to agree to disagree. Again, I think Nicks is a good prospect, but a big play guy is the thing I look at the Jets receiver corps and see lacking. That and I think back and remember (probably worse than it actually was) Laveranues Coles running down the field with opposing cornerbacks tattoed on his ***.
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Old 01-27-2009, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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For DHB I like him but he worries me. The height/speed combo is nice. He can absolutely blow by guys and score a touchdown for you. But I kind of question his ability to go up and get a contested ball, make a catch in traffic, and even run after the catch. His leaping ability and hands are alright, but not as nice as I'd like to see. Strength is a huge weakness IMO, he seems to just go down immediately after contact, and that's strange with the freaky Maryland weight program. No shiftiness either, basically if he can beat you to the pylon going to a straight line with his speed he's got you but otherwise he'll go down. For the tools he has you'd like to see more production. I get the run-oriented offense and I do think the quarterback play was worse his soph and junior years than frosh year but that doesn't quite explain it enough for me. I do like him though and would end up liking the pick, but at the moment I have serious reservations.

On Nicks I do agree with everyone else that we could use a guy to stretch the field. Somebody that can separate on their own, get downfield, push the safeties back, take some pressure off the other wideouts and even the run game a little, and force the corners to play off a little. I just think it would loosen up the opposing defenses. Last year I thought Pennington was the issue but towards the end of the year with Favre we had the same problems. Playcalling to an extent is to blame but I think the wideouts have to shoulder some of it also. Nicks is awesome and I love what he does after the catch. I'd absolutely welcome him in here with open arms, and hell if he runs like 4.4 maybe he jumps up to our range. He's got the nastiness and could help the "all-weather" offense. That said I'm not sold on the fit, but I love him as a player so it's hard to say no to a situation like that. The one thing that really helps his cause is he has a nose for the endzone and can make big plays, he just doesn't provide the field-stretching ability I covet.

Finally, of the WR's in the draft I think I've made it known my favorite is Maclin. I do think he brings more than just the pure speed which is nice. His frame is a concern but he's got decent height, can make catches in traffic, is willing to go over the middle, has soft hands, runs solid routes, and can make things happen both downfield and after the catch. I think he provides the best of both worlds to an extent with the only issue being strength, but I trust him more after the catch than DHB because he's got a little shiftiness in him. Point being I think he brings more than just speed to the table which is why I think he'd be a fantastic fit. And on top of it he produced very well and can return punts allowing Leon to focus on kicks.


EDIT:
I've got to say I watch Nicks and I see a slightly stronger slightly more explosive Cotchery, but maybe that's just because I'm watching him at the college level. Still, it makes me wonder what he really adds to our WR corps, not that I don't like him.

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Old 01-27-2009, 04:59 PM    (permalink
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I'm going to have to agree to disagree. Again, I think Nicks is a good prospect, but a big play guy is the thing I look at the Jets receiver corps and see lacking. That and I think back and remember (probably worse than it actually was) Laveranues Coles running down the field with opposing cornerbacks tattoed on his ***.
I definitely see where you're coming from. I think it's just what you take out of our WR woes. When I see them out there, I don't see WRs that "play big", nor do I see receivers that are especially physical, and to me that hurts us more than anything. Cotch I give a pass because he at least seems to be trying, but Coles is a little girl. Because when I think back, I remember Coles not fighting for a ball or Coles not fighting for extra yardage. Personally, I just want a receiver that's more than a small-ish deep threat. Like take... Lee Evans or even Santana Moss. Good receivers, but I think they'd add very little to our team opposed to someone like Boldin, Jennings, or Ward. And if there was someone in this draft like a Santonio Holmes, I'd be all for it, but I don't really think that's what Heyward-Bey is. I feel that it takes a certain sort of receiver to be a "cold-weather" receiver, and I don't know if I see a lot of that. And, if the sole reason to bring one of these receivers in was just to stretch the field, I'd rather see what Clowney could do with a healthy season.

In any case, I think we're definitely going to grab a WR at some point because at the very least we lack solid depth. I guess it's just a matter of when it happens.
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Old 01-27-2009, 06:04 PM    (permalink
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I definitely see where you're coming from. I think it's just what you take out of our WR woes. When I see them out there, I don't see WRs that "play big", nor do I see receivers that are especially physical, and to me that hurts us more than anything. Cotch I give a pass because he at least seems to be trying, but Coles is a little girl. Because when I think back, I remember Coles not fighting for a ball or Coles not fighting for extra yardage. Personally, I just want a receiver that's more than a small-ish deep threat. Like take... Lee Evans or even Santana Moss. Good receivers, but I think they'd add very little to our team opposed to someone like Boldin, Jennings, or Ward. And if there was someone in this draft like a Santonio Holmes, I'd be all for it, but I don't really think that's what Heyward-Bey is. I feel that it takes a certain sort of receiver to be a "cold-weather" receiver, and I don't know if I see a lot of that. And, if the sole reason to bring one of these receivers in was just to stretch the field, I'd rather see what Clowney could do with a healthy season.

In any case, I think we're definitely going to grab a WR at some point because at the very least we lack solid depth. I guess it's just a matter of when it happens.
Funny, that's EXACTLY the kind of WR I'd like to see us draft. Literally when i think of wideouts Holmes is THE guy. Kind of why I like Maclin, I think if used properly he could play a Holmes-esque role only he's not quite as bulky. But yeah if we could find a wideout in that mold that's exactly what I'd like. Not sure if I made that clear enough lol.
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Old 01-27-2009, 06:31 PM    (permalink
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DHB scares me...nicks i think will be a very solid WR at some point but idk if hes the fit that we need...maclins the ideal fit, and im still unsure where i go after that...DHB, nicks, britt, harvin...the combine i think will help a little bit
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Old 01-27-2009, 07:56 PM    (permalink
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Funny, that's EXACTLY the kind of WR I'd like to see us draft. Literally when i think of wideouts Holmes is THE guy. Kind of why I like Maclin, I think if used properly he could play a Holmes-esque role only he's not quite as bulky. But yeah if we could find a wideout in that mold that's exactly what I'd like. Not sure if I made that clear enough lol.
I think this might be proven to be incorrect. Holmes weighed in at 5'10.5" and 188 lbs at the combine and Maclin is reportedly a sure 6' and closer to 6'1" and about 200 lbs. That was why I am in love with Maclin; he has the same speed, agility etc. as all the smaller receivers, but is much bigger. I just feel that Maclin is going to be long gone by the time we're picking.
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Old 01-27-2009, 08:23 PM    (permalink
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I think this might be proven to be incorrect. Holmes weighed in at 5'10.5" and 188 lbs at the combine and Maclin is reportedly a sure 6' and closer to 6'1" and about 200 lbs. That was why I am in love with Maclin; he has the same speed, agility etc. as all the smaller receivers, but is much bigger. I just feel that Maclin is going to be long gone by the time we're picking.
Yeah I know weight-wise Maclin is a little bigger, but he just physically looks considerably lankier. Holmes seems to be able to take a hit, bounce off tackles some, and just looks a little better put together. Maclin should be able to have success and I really like him as well, I just think he's not quite as tightly wound or strong as Holmes. He's still got time to grow, though.

As for him falling it seems possible based on mocks, really depends on the directions teams go in. He could realistically slip to the range where we could pick him up in a trade-up not too far or something. Otherwise the one thing I think could really help him in slipping is if Harvin blows up and moves ahead of him.
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Old 01-27-2009, 11:22 PM    (permalink
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Either something is very deceiving about them or Nicks happens to be taller than his listed height and DHB shorter, but I'd say Nicks and DHB look the same height and Maclin a bit shorter. It's funny about Maclin because I was looking over some stuff and he's eerily similar to Ginn. He of course had more production, but he also didn't operate in a pro-style offense.

I wouldn't think Maclin is actually his listed height and weight unless, like I said, his height is deceiving, and he happens to be ripped or something. I guess we'll see though. It's a great thing this year because probably the only WR that won't be competing at the combine should be Crabtree, and if that's the case we'll really be able to better determine who should be floating into our range and who we'd probably rather have.
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Old 01-29-2009, 03:53 PM    (permalink
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Either something is very deceiving about them or Nicks happens to be taller than his listed height and DHB shorter, but I'd say Nicks and DHB look the same height and Maclin a bit shorter. It's funny about Maclin because I was looking over some stuff and he's eerily similar to Ginn. He of course had more production, but he also didn't operate in a pro-style offense.

I wouldn't think Maclin is actually his listed height and weight unless, like I said, his height is deceiving, and he happens to be ripped or something. I guess we'll see though. It's a great thing this year because probably the only WR that won't be competing at the combine should be Crabtree, and if that's the case we'll really be able to better determine who should be floating into our range and who we'd probably rather have.
ginn and holmes are built more similarly height and weight wise, nd maclins a little bigger in both areas
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Old 01-29-2009, 08:22 PM    (permalink
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For WR's let's have a hypothetical situation. Maclin is off the board at 17, and Kenny Britt runs a sub-4.5 forty, maybe around 4.45 at the combine. Now that's not burner time, but Britt has the height, leaping ability, and quickness to be able to make plays downfield. He also has the size our offense doesn't have, is big and strong, can block, runs well after the catch, and can be a successful "cold weather" WR in our all-weather offense. Now he's no Jeremy Maclin stretching the field and he's not quite Michael Crabtree strong, not as squatty as Nicks either, but perhaps he's the best of both worlds?
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Old 01-29-2009, 09:23 PM    (permalink
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For WR's let's have a hypothetical situation. Maclin is off the board at 17, and Kenny Britt runs a sub-4.5 forty, maybe around 4.45 at the combine. Now that's not burner time, but Britt has the height, leaping ability, and quickness to be able to make plays downfield. He also has the size our offense doesn't have, is big and strong, can block, runs well after the catch, and can be a successful "cold weather" WR in our all-weather offense. Now he's no Jeremy Maclin stretching the field and he's not quite Michael Crabtree strong, not as squatty as Nicks either, but perhaps he's the best of both worlds?
That would be very interesting, because a 4.45 is a fantastic time for someone his size. ex.) Andre Johnson, 6'2" 225 lbs and ran a 4.43.

Definitely something to think about.
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Old 01-29-2009, 09:31 PM    (permalink
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That would be very interesting, because a 4.45 is a fantastic time for someone his size. ex.) Andre Johnson, 6'2" 225 lbs and ran a 4.43.

Definitely something to think about.
IIRC, Andre Johnson ran a 4.32, but regardless, if Kenny Britt did run a 4.45, I'd definitely warm up to the idea of the Jets drafting him. Does anyone have a comparison of his combine 40 to guys like Plaxico or Vincent Jackson? I looked on Sports illustrated, but I'm not so sure they're especially accurate.
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Old 01-29-2009, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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Honestly, Britt would be a perfect receiver if I didn't have the character concerns. I'd like to get the chance to see him in a couple interviews and see what comes up about him as the draft nears though first.
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Old 01-29-2009, 10:57 PM    (permalink
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Hmm its definitly intresting. At 6-4 215 Britt would catch my eye if he ran a 4.45. But no matter any situation I think were going to go D with our 1st rounder. Its exciting though not knowing who we could end up with when its all said and done.
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Old 01-29-2009, 11:19 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by thetedginnshow View Post
Honestly, Britt would be a perfect receiver if I didn't have the character concerns. I'd like to get the chance to see him in a couple interviews and see what comes up about him as the draft nears though first.
I'm still not sold on the character concerns. He got suspended for one game, but doesn't talk off the field and plays hard on it. It's not like we're talking about a Chris Henry/Pacman Jones guy, and we're also not talking about somebody that talks in the media or dogs it on the field. I'm from Jersey and as we're coming up to the draft this is the first I've ever heard about any concerns.

I'd ask Josh. While he is a massive Rutgers homer he'll tell it like it is, and I'm pretty sure he'll just say this is much ado about nothing.

Anyways, thought it was an interesting hypothetical.
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Old 01-30-2009, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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IIRC, Andre Johnson ran a 4.32, but regardless, if Kenny Britt did run a 4.45, I'd definitely warm up to the idea of the Jets drafting him. Does anyone have a comparison of his combine 40 to guys like Plaxico or Vincent Jackson? I looked on Sports illustrated, but I'm not so sure they're especially accurate.
See, I thought Andre ran a time in the 4.3's as well, but when i checked his combine results on draft scout and than sports illustrated ( http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/foo...yers/1211.html ). I'm not sure which is correct, maybe neither, becuase he certainly looks faster.

I usually go back draft scout because they have results directly from the combine and proday, possibly Andre was hurt during his???

Plax didn't run at the combine in indy, but an article i just read said he ran a 4.55 when he weighed in at 6'5.5" 231 lbs. So that's pretty impressive

Vincent Jackson measured in at 6'4.5" and 241 and ran a 4.46, which is pretty darn impressive.
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Old 01-30-2009, 12:50 PM    (permalink
josh07039
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To save time and have an easy to read format, I'll make a list.
1.Keny Britt is fast. Not only is he naturally fast, I think he has been training at a camp in Arizona pretty much since the season ended. Furthermore, I think Kenny could surprise a lot of people with his speed at the combine. I(and other Rutgers fans) will be disappointed with anything over a 4.45 for him.
2.The character concerns are ridiculous. He got suspended for one game for smoking. I know it wasn't a smart thing to do, especially when the team was sliding, but we need to be realistic. There are tons of players on every team in the nation that smoke, he just happened to get caught. One little mistake is not enough to be considered a character concern.
3.Even if some make think he is a bit full of himself, he isn't a soft prima dona on the field. He loves contact on blocks and he gives full effort all the time. Even when Teel was under throwing the ball and leaving his receivers open for big hits, Britt was still going over the middle and making plays.
4. Obviously Im biased, but if Britt runs in the range I think he could, he is the best value at 17. His combo of remarkable tools and production is better than any other wr at the spot. DHB is a freak, but didn't produce on an elite level. Maclin produced, but just doesn't have the combo of size and speed to be the absolute elite top 5 reciever in the league. Harvin is an explosive player and he may end up being remarkably productive, but he isn't a prototypical #1. We need a guy that can do it all.
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Old 01-30-2009, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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I like Maclin at 17 because he's fast and offers a ton after the catch. Seems like he can take a hit and nice hands. Britt though I think has become my favorite outside of him in that range.

He would add so much to our offense that we don't have. Size, leaping ability, big-play ability, deep threat. He's more polished than DHB if not a bit slower, and has better deep ability than Nicks. I won't even bring up Harvin because he's too much like Leon except a little more WR than RB instead of a little more RB than WR.

Plenty of dudes last year admitted to smoking weed and it wasn't an issue for teams, I'm sure if Britt is honest about it and admits he made a mistake that he learned from it'll be a non-issue.

Just need him to run well, not well enough that he might get drafted ahead of us but well enough that he moves up into our range, and we'll be set. I think he'd be a very good pick.
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Old 01-30-2009, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by josh07039 View Post
To save time and have an easy to read format, I'll make a list.
1.Keny Britt is fast. Not only is he naturally fast, I think he has been training at a camp in Arizona pretty much since the season ended. Furthermore, I think Kenny could surprise a lot of people with his speed at the combine. I(and other Rutgers fans) will be disappointed with anything over a 4.45 for him.
2.The character concerns are ridiculous. He got suspended for one game for smoking. I know it wasn't a smart thing to do, especially when the team was sliding, but we need to be realistic. There are tons of players on every team in the nation that smoke, he just happened to get caught. One little mistake is not enough to be considered a character concern.
3.Even if some make think he is a bit full of himself, he isn't a soft prima dona on the field. He loves contact on blocks and he gives full effort all the time. Even when Teel was under throwing the ball and leaving his receivers open for big hits, Britt was still going over the middle and making plays.
4. Obviously Im biased, but if Britt runs in the range I think he could, he is the best value at 17. His combo of remarkable tools and production is better than any other wr at the spot. DHB is a freak, but didn't produce on an elite level. Maclin produced, but just doesn't have the combo of size and speed to be the absolute elite top 5 reciever in the league. Harvin is an explosive player and he may end up being remarkably productive, but he isn't a prototypical #1. We need a guy that can do it all.
Wait. Are you saying then that you think Britt can be a top five receiver? That to me seems pretty ridiculous.

But I don't think the smoking issue is the big deal, and while I like to see some physicality on the field, I'm more concerned about locker room cohesiveness.
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Old 01-30-2009, 02:38 PM    (permalink
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Wait. Are you saying then that you think Britt can be a top five receiver? That to me seems pretty ridiculous.

But I don't think the smoking issue is the big deal, and while I like to see some physicality on the field, I'm more concerned about locker room cohesiveness.
Have you seen anything to suggest he'd be a locker room problem? Just because I never have so I'd be interested to see it. I'm just not sure where all of these character issues are coming from.

And I'm not sure about top 5 but with everything I've seen Britt do taken into account I do think it's not unreasonable to say he could end up being the top wideout in this class. Not saying he absolutely will be but I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he ended up doing so. He's got a ton of talent.
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Old 01-30-2009, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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Have you seen anything to suggest he'd be a locker room problem? Just because I never have so I'd be interested to see it. I'm just not sure where all of these character issues are coming from.

And I'm not sure about top 5 but with everything I've seen Britt do taken into account I do think it's not unreasonable to say he could end up being the top wideout in this class. Not saying he absolutely will be but I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he ended up doing so. He's got a ton of talent.
Oh no, that's why I said I'd like to see more of him in the coming months. I don't think it's very reliable to read previously published stories about him or rely on Rutgers fans for knowledge on the issue, so I'd just like to wait until everything's dug up. But all I was saying that with any player, I'd care about locker room chemistry more than most things. Granted, if there are any red flags in that area in the first place, we don't have to worry because we won't be drafting that person.
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