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Old 09-15-2008, 05:24 PM    (permalink
yo123
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This is insane honestly, all this Bradford love. The kid is good, manages them game and is accurate as can be. Over the past 8 NFL drafts here are a few QB's that remind me of him when I looked back.

Colt Brennan
Alex Brink
John Beck
Aaron Rodgers
Kyle Orton
Luke McCown
Craig Krenzel
Jeff Smoker
Ken Dorsey
Patrick Ramsey
Chad Pennington
Chris Redman
Tim Rattay

Some of these players are doing good, aka world beater Aaron Rodgers but he has only played two games. If you take him out, the rest are just all average at best and that is how I view Bradford. A QB with not the strongest arm in the world, played in a very productive college offense but in the NFL he does not have the ideal ball speed to complete the hard passes against tight defenses. Sure he can manage the game and maybe be great at it. But in terms of elite players I do not see him as one.

You even take the class he is in as a SOPH. All this crap of him coming out as a freaking SOPH for the NFL draft and being a 1st round pick. Heck one could argue he is not even the best SOPH QB in the nation. You have Mallett who is a prototype NFL QB with a great arm, then you have a very promising athlete in Kapernick who has potential. Then there is Locker who physically is so far ahead of Bradford it is ridiculous. He is a promising prospect and now you also have Jevan Snead a player that plays with less talent but can make all the throws.

I just question his arm and do not see what exactly makes him so much different than Jason White. Jason White in college I hated him because I thought his arm was just crap and he got all these yards by the talent around him. Now Bradford has a better arm than White but the talent is still there. So what again makes him different than White? Heck White was "supposedly" a better athlete than Bradford.

So someone please explain to me this obsession with Bradford?
Bradford isn't a game manager, take a look at his YPA he makes his share of big plays.

Mallet was garbage last year and has shown nothing to even consider him being better than Bradford.

Kapernick and Locker are ridiculously raw and aren't on Bradford's level as a passer. Not even close.

Bradford's arm isn't great, but it's good enough, especially with how accurate he is, and he actually has produced unlike supposed great prospects like Matthew Stafford and Josh Freeman.
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Old 09-15-2008, 05:33 PM    (permalink
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I think you're knocking Bradford a bit too much for being an OU QB. No he doesn't have an amazing arm but he puts some good zip on the ball and can make the necessary throws. He throws a beautiful deep ball and is accurate all over the field. His stats are a bit inflated but he doesn't make a lot of mistakes mentally or throwing wise, and it's not like he is just dinking and dunking the ball all the time.

Definitely agree Stafford will be the better pro at this point though. There were a few plays against SCar that just left you speechless.
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Old 09-15-2008, 05:37 PM    (permalink
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I think you're knocking Bradford a bit too much for being an OU QB. No he doesn't have an amazing arm but he puts some good zip on the ball and can make the necessary throws. He throws a beautiful deep ball and is accurate all over the field. His stats are a bit inflated but he doesn't make a lot of mistakes mentally or throwing wise, and it's not like he is just dinking and dunking the ball all the time.

Definitely agree Stafford will be the better pro at this point though. There were a few plays against SCar that just left you speechless.
Like which ones?
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Old 09-15-2008, 05:41 PM    (permalink
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The dropped TD in the corner, one pass on the sideline deepish (to Green I think), short pass (in or comeback) to Green. Probably the only guy in college that could make those throws and there aren't many guys in the pros who could either.
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Old 09-15-2008, 06:08 PM    (permalink
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Definitely agree Stafford will be the better pro at this point though. There were a few plays against SCar that just left you speechless.
Thank you! My goodness, at least someone else sees that. As for which passes, maybe the one that went 80 some yards with a flick, or a few of his screen passes under intense pass rush. Or the one across his body across the field rolling in the opposite direction.

When he plays it seems like the entire field just opens up and you can do anything basically.


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Bradford isn't a game manager, take a look at his YPA he makes his share of big plays.

Mallet was garbage last year and has shown nothing to even consider him being better than Bradford.

Kapernick and Locker are ridiculously raw and aren't on Bradford's level as a passer. Not even close.

Bradford's arm isn't great, but it's good enough, especially with how accurate he is, and he actually has produced unlike supposed great prospects like Matthew Stafford and Josh Freeman.
As for this production comment, production to me means absolutely nothing. It is all about his arm and what kind of throws he can make. Still, do not see how one says Stafford is not productive but whatever. As for Locker and Kapernick being raw, yes, but they are talented. Locker again is a much more promising physical prospect than Bradford. Bradford athletically is not much to write home about. As for Mallet being garbage, I totally disagree with that, he showed a lot last year and played well in my book.

I still say, what makes Bradford this amazing NFL QB prospect? What? Do not talk about his stats of completion percentage. The kid throws a really questionable deep ball. He is solid but this is flat out ridiculous to call this SOPH a potential 2009 NFL draft top pick. It seems to me some do not really realize what arm strength is, I remember back in the day once I was arguing with people about Brad Smith and how he had a weak arm. People swore he had a gun but yeah you all know how that turned out. Not saying Bradford cannot play QB, I am saying his arm is not where NEAR Stafford's and thus he will not come out as a SOPH and will not be a top 10 pick in the draft this year. Rarely will a QB with a so so arm be a top 10 draft pick.

I like Bradford but this over hype on him is almost making me think otherwise. And as for arm strength, since when does this not matter? Make the case of Jamarcus Russell, ok his career just started. How about people realize that oh does Brady have a rocket arm? Yes. Favre? Yes. Peyton Manning? Yes. Roethlisberger? Yes. Eli Manning? Yes.

These guys have talented throwing arms and it is almost proven that all are ridiculously successful in the NFL. Sure arm strength is not everything but in the NFL where it is all about how physically talented you are, it means a lot.

As for my comparisons, any arguments? How is Bradford not a lot like let us say John Beck, Kyle Orton, Luke McCown or Colt Brennan?
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Old 09-15-2008, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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As for this production comment, production to me means absolutely nothing.
This is where I stopped reading.
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Old 09-15-2008, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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This is where I stopped reading.
Wrongly stated, how about....I believe that statistical success in college means very little in terms of quarterback evaluation because look at those who have put up great statistics in college....how did they turn out in the NFL?

Timmy Chang
BJ Symons
Kliff Kingsbury
Colt Brennan
Ty Detmer

Look at what type of passes the quarterback completes, not the box scores stats...


And sorry I do want to argue about this because I just do not see it, someone please convince me. The kid is good, I agree with that, but he is not All Pro future 1st pick in the NFL draft good.
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Old 09-15-2008, 06:23 PM    (permalink
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Wrongly stated, how about....I believe that statistical success in college means very little in terms of quarterback evaluation because look at those who have put up great statistics in college....how did they turn out in the NFL?

Timmy Chang
BJ Symons
Kliff Kingsbury
Colt Brennan
Ty Detmer

Look at what type of passes the quarterback completes, not the box scores stats...

That's better, but those are extreme examples, Bradford has more physical tools than all of those from what I have seen. I don't think his arm is as bad as your making it out to be.

Drew Brees and Phillip Rivers don't have great arms, but they are two of the better QB's in the league.

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Old 09-15-2008, 06:26 PM    (permalink
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The dropped TD in the corner, one pass on the sideline deepish (to Green I think), short pass (in or comeback) to Green. Probably the only guy in college that could make those throws and there aren't many guys in the pros who could either.
I don't doubt it. I wish I could see those throws. I love amazing throws by QBs.
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Old 09-15-2008, 06:29 PM    (permalink
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Wrongly stated, how about....I believe that statistical success in college means very little in terms of quarterback evaluation because look at those who have put up great statistics in college....how did they turn out in the NFL?

Timmy Chang
BJ Symons
Kliff Kingsbury
Colt Brennan
Ty Detmer

Look at what type of passes the quarterback completes, not the box scores stats...


And sorry I do want to argue about this because I just do not see it, someone please convince me. The kid is good, I agree with that, but he is not All Pro future 1st pick in the NFL draft good.
What good is that logic? There are bad QBs with good stats and bad QBs with bad stats. However, the success rate of QBs with good stats is a hell of a lot higher than QBs with bad stats. You act as if it's the opposite. That QBs with bad stats have a better chance to succeed than QB with good stats. Phillip Rivers (and his side arm release) wouldn't have been drafted as high as he was if he didn't have good stats. Stats alone wasn't what made him, but stats most definitely have meaning.

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Old 09-15-2008, 06:32 PM    (permalink
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Drew Brees and Phillip Rivers don't have great arms, but they are two of the better QB's in the league.
I disagree with that, I think Rivers has a rocket arm, always could throw a great deep ball even in college. People think he cannot throw because his odd release. And Brees he is a gun slinger if you ever saw one in college. Threw a very fast and tight ball. It is all subjective though, what one person thinks is a fast throw another person would not even notice. What one person sees as a tough pass the other sees it as a weak throw.

So yeah all depends on who is looking.
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Old 09-15-2008, 06:36 PM    (permalink
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What good is that logic? There are bad QBs with good stats and bad QBs with bad stats. However, the success rate of good QBs with good stats is a hell of a lot higher than good QBs with bad stats. You act as if it's the opposite. That QBs with bad stats have a better chance to succeed than QB with good stats. Phillip Rivers (and his side arm release) wouldn't have been drafted as high as he was if he didn't have good stats. Stats alone wasn't what made him, but stats most definitely have meaning.
I say it because as someone that likes to watch and evaluate college football players and predict their potential success in the NFL, I hate just looking at statistics and making an opinion off of it. As a QB sure statistics mean a little but should not be the focus. Other positions it is a little different, QB though one can really look a lot better than he actually is pretty easily.
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Old 09-15-2008, 07:14 PM    (permalink
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I say it because as someone that likes to watch and evaluate college football players and predict their potential success in the NFL, I hate just looking at statistics and making an opinion off of it. As a QB sure statistics mean a little but should not be the focus. Other positions it is a little different, QB though one can really look a lot better than he actually is pretty easily.
Yes, but there are certain stats like TD/INT ratio and Completion Percentage that can be telling. Even Wins can be telling. If a program is crap before the guy gets there and then all of a sudden becomes good, I do credit QBs with that. Or the opposite, if the school is good and then is crap, you blame the QB for not being that good. This is more telling for medium-small schools. Big power house schools that are supposed to be good every year, make it hard to judge a QB using Wins. Stats like Yardage and TDs.... they aren't really good indicators. But, it's not wise to just demean all QB stats.

I know you place a heavy emphasis on QB size and arm strength, but those 2 things are probably the 2 most overrated factors in determining how good a QB will be in the NFL.

I'll give you the honest to darn truth (in my eyes) to a successful QB prospect:

1. Instincts/Intelligence - the QB has to have a great feel for knowing how to move the ball and win the game without making mistakes. Part of having good instincts requires the ability to know your playbook, know your opponent and hard work. You don't have the capacity to do that without being intelligent.

2. Accuracy - Hand/eye coordination takes a long time to develop. It goes back to child development. Unlike arm strength and weight (2 highly overrated qualities) that can easily improve under a strict training regiment, you can't draft a QB and expect him to dramatically improve his accuracy.

3. Mobility - A good QB prospect will also be able to move around the pocket or scramble away because QBs with cement in their shoes simply fail.

4. Character - QBs have to be men of discipline. They have to be able to control their emotions, have to be able to command the respect of their teammates and they have to have that "leadership" quality or qualities that make a good leader. If the guy can't handle media criticism, chooses the wrong crowd, and consistently makes bad choices off the field, then he's not a good prospect.

5. Good looks - Laugh... but I'm DEAD serious. It's significant enough because in our society, people with good looks have a better chance to succeed in life than people with bad looks. Not saying an ugly person can't succeed, but for every ugly QB who has been successful in the NFL, there are 20 good looking QBs who have been successful. My guess is that they have a type of confidence that others may not. That's why they are the Prom/Homecoming Kings, voted most popular, etc etc... They've been living a life of high expectations for a long time.
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Old 09-15-2008, 07:38 PM    (permalink
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Great post D-Unit....

As for the looks, what about good old Peyton, he is not Tom Brady but I would take him any day as a QB despite how he appears. However he is funny as hell, see him on SNL awhile back, wow! haha



All the things you mentioned I totally agree with. However I must say, I think it is quite important for a NFL QB to throw the ball anywhere on the field. I am speaking of rolling out to your left, throwing back to your right which might only be 30 yards on the field but is actually like 60-70 yards in the air.

A football field is more than 50 yards wide. Thus even a short out route you have to be able to throw it 30 yards with great speed and if not it will be picked off. That is what I talk about with arm strength.

To be able to shoot a ball in a tight spot and you cannot do that unless you have a rocket arm and can muscle it in there.

Also the ability to take a direct snap, under intense pressure, keep focus down field, fling it 70-80 yards just at the last second and be able to get back up and do it again.

Those type of QB's I would fear and those type of QB's I would want on my team.



However yes, based on what you look for in a QB then yes Bradford is your man probably. Nonetheless it is just a difference in what one considers the ideal QB. We are talking top QB prospects thus the personal ideal, my ideal I guess is not the same as some others. I want a rocket armed quarterback that can make all and any throw.

Thus Stafford is the man of the hour currently in college football in my world regarding his arm.
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Old 09-15-2008, 07:55 PM    (permalink
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Drew Brees and Phillip Rivers don't have great arms, but they are two of the better QB's in the league.
Coming out of college, Rivers motion may have been unorthodox, but it was highly effective. The kid threw a great ball. As for Brees, accuracy was more his thing coming out of college, but he completely changed his throwing mechanics after the Chargers picked him up. That's why he throws as good a deep pass as anyone in the NFL.

As for Stafford, he honestly reminds me of what Jay Cutler looked like at Vandy in 2004. As Cutler starts to ascend into that current rarefied air of NFL quarterbacks that comparison carries more weight, but take it purely as a college play comparison. Stafford has the tools and has a nice approach, but he hasn't pulled everything together yet, and we may not see him do so if he exits college early. That said, the tools are there in enough excess that it isn't really all that hard of a thing to imagine him going top 5 even if his college production isn't quite up to par. There figure to be plenty of quarterback hungry teams and I don't even think there's a Matt Ryan-esque guy in the picture yet. Stafford still looks like the most likely #1 QB to me.
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Old 09-15-2008, 10:22 PM    (permalink
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i think its pretty clear on stafford. hes not going to have a big year. theyre not going to win the title. just not that great of a thrower. not accurate. how many 55% 150 yd games does he have to put up before its finally accepted that hes not coming out andhes just not that good. he plays on a good football team. that does not an nfl qb make. not a guaranteed rd 1 and i dont see his stock improving all that much because the defensive competition level is about to rise and hes going to throw picks and theyre going to lose some games. not meeting team expectaitions+ average stats most likely wont equal a rd 1 pick and thus i think he goes back.
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Old 09-15-2008, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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If you're going to complain about stats at least have it be somewhat relevant. 62% so far this year with no games under 60.
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Old 09-15-2008, 10:47 PM    (permalink
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im not sure what that means but hes was 15/25 150 0 tds and not m,any points in this last yawner. and this is against a team that lost to vandy. now they get fla auburn lsu etc. theyre going to lose some games. i think the hawaii game elevated the team and stafford a above their true level. its going to be difficult for him tomeet expectations and hes not going to have a huge year stat wise.
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Old 09-15-2008, 11:19 PM    (permalink
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SC gave up 90 yards passing against Vandy so I don't see why them losing that game is relevant to Stafford. It's already been mentioned a bunch but UGA dropped 4/5 passes in that game including a TD that was a perfect pass. He completed 60% of his passes against a great pass defense with mediocre receivers dropping a handful of passes with a pretty conservative gameplan from georgia. My point was you were knocking him for something he was doing last year when he has clearly progressed so far this season.
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Old 09-15-2008, 11:24 PM    (permalink
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i dont know if id call anything aboust sc "great". the talent level is only going to rise. if youre a jr qb and expect to be picked high you pretty much need a big stat year. i dont see how hes progressed. in their first real "test", he didnt shine. and the exams are only going to get harder
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Old 09-15-2008, 11:26 PM    (permalink
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Georgia may not be heaping it all onto Stafford's back, but that's because it's the smart thing to let their great running back handle most of the work. Stafford may not get many chances to show that he's an elite prospect, but he hasn't shown me anything so far this year to suggest he can't be.
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Old 09-15-2008, 11:27 PM    (permalink
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I disagree with that, I think Rivers has a rocket arm, always could throw a great deep ball even in college. People think he cannot throw because his odd release. And Brees he is a gun slinger if you ever saw one in college. Threw a very fast and tight ball. It is all subjective though, what one person thinks is a fast throw another person would not even notice. What one person sees as a tough pass the other sees it as a weak throw.

So yeah all depends on who is looking.
Arm strength isn't dictated by how far you can throw. It's the velocity of the passes. Rivers' deep ball floats on him, and his outs (particular deep outs) take forever to reach their intended target. Until now, he's made his living in between the hash marks to Antonio Gates.
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Old 09-16-2008, 02:48 AM    (permalink
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In my opinion, Matt Stafford's hype is eerily similar to Andre Woodson's at this time last year.
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Old 09-16-2008, 07:05 AM    (permalink
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im not sure what that means but hes was 15/25 150 0 tds and not m,any points in this last yawner. and this is against a team that lost to vandy. now they get fla auburn lsu etc. theyre going to lose some games. i think the hawaii game elevated the team and stafford a above their true level. its going to be difficult for him tomeet expectations and hes not going to have a huge year stat wise.
That is ridiculous, South Carolina has one of the most talented defensive units in the country without question. They have ball plays at each position. Cliff Matthews is a stud DE pass rusher, their DT's are as good as anyones. Then you have Norwood on the outside making plays and Brinkley one of the best run stopping ILB's around. At CB they are stacked with Munnerlyn, Woodson and Thomas then at safety they have fine players in Cook and Culliver. To say they are not talented on defense is ridiculous, they are not only talented they are one of the most talented groups around.
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Old 09-16-2008, 07:07 AM    (permalink
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In my opinion, Matt Stafford's hype is eerily similar to Andre Woodson's at this time last year.
Possible, but Woodson's problem was that he did not let the ball go soon enough and his slow release became a problem. Stafford does not have that problem. Still quite surprised Woodson did not make a team but it is all about that release and how odd and slow it was. Just shows though, you can look great in college but not have any future in the NFL. Has to be more than Woodson than just his release though, not sure if he go injured or if he went mentally insane at some point and lost his mind...who knows...
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