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Old 05-16-2008, 10:35 AM    (permalink
eaglesalltheway
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You're not being a homer in you way of thinking for the Jags.
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Old 05-16-2008, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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You lost two starters, a player that saw a lot of time in Joseph, and a young quality backup LB in Torbor. I know you have the starter at SAM filled out with Kiwi, and drafted Phillips, but there will be a slight dropoff for at least a few games, and even a different style to adapt to. Your D-line is strong at DE, but you don't have any bonafied DTs, and I didn't see much to improve that. You have solid DTs, don't get me wrong, but an upgrade could certainly be used. They may not be huge losses, but they are losses that will affect the defense, you can't act as though losing two starters and a semi-starter in Joseph will not hurt the defense to some degree.
Joseph sucked, and if not mistaken I don't remember seeing him play in the playoffs at all. I remember Robbins, Coefield, Alford and Tuck. Trust me Joseph wasn't a key loss. Torbor was another Nick Greisen in my opinion. Avg LB who never panned out. Torbor was a DE, and we made him a LB, and he never progressed the way he had hoped. He was avg, not bad not what you call great. Servicable..

We rotate our DTs, and they all fit in this system. We have 3 DTs, and Tuck, that's more then enough depth we need, unless something freaky happens and they all start getting hurt. That could happen, but Alford started to come later in the season, so looking for him to improve.

If anything Wilson could be a loss, but just like I explained to another rival fan, I forgot the username, our defense is different than most NFL defenses. It's almost like a highschool defense, in that the best 11 play. So if losing Wilson means we play 3 safties on the field, Spags will do it. We did it during the superbowl with Wilson, Butler and Johnson. If that means playing a safety at LB, while puttin our CB, Aaron Ross at FS, then we will do it. This defense is based on versatility, and if you notice we are drafting player who play and do difference things. Gerris Wilk, played all 3 LB spots in college, and alittle DE. One of our rookies played 3 LB spots as well.

That's what the defense is based upon, interchangable parts because people are going to be moved around. So while in a traditional sense, a loss like Wilson can and will be felt, we can easily plug someone in his spot, and add another safety to compensate. For instance, Kenny Phillips, Sammy Knight, and James Butler. Not only that like I said, we finally have coaching stability which we never had since Coughlin was hired.
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Old 05-16-2008, 11:30 AM    (permalink
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Cuz when I say my team sucks they do well for whatever reason. REVERSE PSYCHOLOGY FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 05-16-2008, 11:30 AM    (permalink
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I still don't think the Giants will have a top 5 defense. And i'm gonna stand by that one all year. They got torched too many times last year. They allowed 30+ pts nine times. Allowing that many points 56% of the season is pretty bad. I don't think they've improved any, so i don't see how that changes.

I'm surprised not many people are naming the Cowboys. Well, actually, i shouldn't be, seeing as how many people despise them, but anyway, they should be up there in the top 7 easily.

Our run defense is always top of the line, and we've vastly improved our secondary outside the SS spot. Our improving pass-rush should help the secondary a bit and take some pressure out of covering in man for too long.
They should be in the top 5, barring injury to one of our main guys (Hamlin, Ware, Newman)
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Old 05-16-2008, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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If Strahan doesn't come back, I wouldn't be surprised if the Giants aren't in the top 5.
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Old 05-16-2008, 11:33 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by terribletowel39 View Post
Yea, except the Steelers finished #1 last year. The Colts finished third behind the Bucs.
... based on yardage, lol. Tell me again who was #1 in scoring defense.

Steelers are like the Jags imo, they'll do a great job stopping the run, but they can be passed on. (Although in Pittsburgh's case, they were tied for last in the league in interceptions last year.)
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Old 05-16-2008, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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You lost two starters, a player that saw a lot of time in Joseph, and a young quality backup LB in Torbor. I know you have the starter at SAM filled out with Kiwi, and drafted Phillips, but there will be a slight dropoff for at least a few games, and even a different style to adapt to. Your D-line is strong at DE, but you don't have any bonafied DTs, and I didn't see much to improve that. You have solid DTs, don't get me wrong, but an upgrade could certainly be used. They may not be huge losses, but they are losses that will affect the defense, you can't act as though losing two starters and a semi-starter in Joseph will not hurt the defense to some degree.
Joseph was put on IR in preaseason with "back spasms". Basically he sucked so bad that the Giants knew they were going to cut him after the 2007 season so they put him on IR with an injury that could be played through. Joseph didn't play a single down last season.
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Old 05-16-2008, 11:44 AM    (permalink
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*Homer* The Steelers have done nothing to get worse on defence (they were no1 last year)
Yea but other teams did something to get better on defense..But I agee Steelers are a lock to have a top Defense.
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Old 05-16-2008, 11:47 AM    (permalink
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I still don't think the Giants will have a top 5 defense. And i'm gonna stand by that one all year. They got torched too many times last year. They allowed 30+ pts nine times. Allowing that many points 56% of the season is pretty bad. I don't think they've improved any, so i don't see how that changes.
What are people just making stuff up today? The Giants let up 30+ points five times. The first two games of the year when they were still learning the scheme. Then 31 points to Dallas in the middle of the season. 41 to Minnesota, which 21 points came on 3 INTs returned for TDs. And then 38 points to the unstoppable NE offense week 17 which we stopped in the Super Bowl.
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Old 05-16-2008, 11:49 AM    (permalink
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What are people just making stuff up today? The Giants let up 30+ points five times. The first two games of the year when they were still learning the scheme. Then 31 points to Dallas in the middle of the season. 41 to Minnesota, which 21 points came on 3 INTs returned for TDs. And then 38 points to the unstoppable NE offense week 17 which we stopped in the Super Bowl.
Giants opponents' score = Nine times over 30.

None of that is untrue.

You're not gonna have a top 5 defense, and that's all the argument i'm making.
Strahan or not.
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Old 05-16-2008, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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Giants opponents' score = Nine times over 30.

None of that is untrue.

You're not gonna have a top 5 defense, and that's all the argument i'm making.
Strahan or not.
Show me the other games where opponents scored over 30 points.

You can certainly argue we won't have a top 5 defense, just trying doing it with facts and not false statements.
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Old 05-16-2008, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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Show me the other games where opponents scored about 30 points.
Ah.

LOL. I apologize. I was reading the stat sheet wrong. They flip the scores around depending on a win or loss.

I'm sorry, i retract my previous statements.
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Old 05-16-2008, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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I'm gonna be different and say Chicago. I think they'll return to form and surprise with another dominant defense led by Urlacher and Harris and those good edge players - the DEs and CBs. If their safeties can stay healthy and play solid that should happen.
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Old 05-16-2008, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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... based on yardage, lol. Tell me again who was #1 in scoring defense.

Steelers are like the Jags imo, they'll do a great job stopping the run, but they can be passed on. (Although in Pittsburgh's case, they were tied for last in the league in interceptions last year.)
The Steelers had the #3 rush and pass defense last year...are you basing this off of the offseason, last year's schedule, or what?

And on the Jags note, IIRC they were better against the pass in '06 than against the run, but also IIRC they didn't have a stellar QB schedule. Things flipped around last year for multiple reasons (pass rush, Mathis' injury, Terry Cousin's regression, safety play, etc).
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Old 05-16-2008, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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... based on yardage, lol. Tell me again who was #1 in scoring defense.

Steelers are like the Jags imo, they'll do a great job stopping the run, but they can be passed on. (Although in Pittsburgh's case, they were tied for last in the league in interceptions last year.)
Yall allowed 7 fewer points than us. Thats just allowing one less touchdown. The average is 16.4 - Colts and 16.8 - Steelers.

And like Unseen already pointed out, we were #3 in both categories. We also allowed the fewest 1st downs. And our defense kept the opposing offense off the field the longest.
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Old 05-16-2008, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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I like seeing the Bolts get some respect, but I think they're really gonna take off next year. They only lost one regular season game once Cromartie became the starter and it was a nailbiter to Jax, in Jax. After that they didn't lose until the AFC championship game. Throw in another year under Cottrell's system, a healthy Luis Castillo, and a couple guys named Shawne/Shaun (plus a bunch of other playmakers) and we're looking at a really great squad.

Also, they finally unlocked a hidden character: Anthony Waters is coming this year. and he is a beast.
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Old 05-16-2008, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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I have to go with Vikings or the G-men in all starts up front.
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Old 05-16-2008, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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I don't think the Giants' defense will be as decent as it was last year. They lost a lot of very good players, and their secondary, on paper, looks pretty bad. Aaron Ross will have one more year under him and he should be good, but Sam Madison, Cory Webster, and whoever else they have there isn't very impressive. They'll be starting a rookie safety opposite a crappy one, so their secondary doesn't look too good.
The giants lost Gibril, Torbor and Mitchell, OH NOZ!!!1!!! We lost a backup linebacker, a jurneyman who wasn't an ideal fit but was a good stopgap and a good in the box safety. Now you may think that's a lot of good plaers but I don't. Gibril hurts but all of our safeties were better inthebox which forced Gibril to play out of position. Phillips is a rookie but first year DBs can come in and contribute, plus Knight was signed as much to help teach the young guys as he was too play. The addition of Knight and Phillips also means no more James Butler, which is a major cause for celebration, plus Thomas helps our depth at corner. Ross, Webster and Madison will start of as our top 3 but Dockery will be fighting for the nickel spot and Thomas should be a Ross clone if healthy. I think our secondary is a lot better than when we started last season.

Add to that that Kiwi's healthy again and Alford got some PT which makes our pass rush more dangerous and Wilk/Kehl finally gives us a WLB capable of helping in coverage.

I think the giants have gotten better where players have moved oj and not worse. Only real argument is gibril but he was stuck out of position a pot last year because we didn't have any safeties who were good in coverage, Butler was worthless and Johnson was very raw.
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Old 05-16-2008, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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All i ever hear about the Giants' is their pass rush, and never about their secondary. Kiwanuka and Tuck aren't gonna cover T.O when he's torching them for 150 again.
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Old 05-16-2008, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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Joseph was put on IR in preaseason with "back spasms". Basically he sucked so bad that the Giants knew they were going to cut him after the 2007 season so they put him on IR with an injury that could be played through. Joseph didn't play a single down last season.
I was gunna say I didn't remember seeing that lazy bust on the field this past year. The year before he got PT because Strahan, Tuck and Osi went down so he got reps at DE but he's been lazy and unproductive his whole career. It's like if we cut Butler after this season and people called him a significant loss.
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Old 05-16-2008, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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All i ever hear about the Giants' is their pass rush, and never about their secondary. Kiwanuka and Tuck aren't gonna cover T.O when he's torching them for 150 again.
Cause it's not like they won the superbowl with a worse pass rush and secondary than we have this season. Corey Webster managed to manage TO and Randy Moss in our D last year. Is he that good? Hell no but in our d he doesn't have to be.
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Old 05-16-2008, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Packers at all. Our only two older players are our starting two corners who have shown to be durable during their time with us. The rest of our defense should improve over an already terrific showing last year. Plus we added in a nickelback who, knock on wood, should be able to actually cover someone.

There's a ton of talent on the D overall. Think Kampman, Harris, Woodson, Barnett, Hawk, KGB, Pickett. Plus you look at safeties with the potential to break out, including Bigby who was a force in the last month + playoffs. And, unlike a few of the defenses that were already mentioned, we already were a top 5ish defense last year and didn't lose any key players.

Will they be the BEST? No, probably not. Will they be top 5? I'd bet on it.
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Old 05-16-2008, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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Cause it's not like they won the superbowl with a worse pass rush and secondary than we have this season. Corey Webster managed to manage TO and Randy Moss in our D last year. Is he that good? Hell no but in our d he doesn't have to be.
I'm not sure what you mean by managing T.O, cause when he was healthy he was unstoppable against you all.
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Old 05-16-2008, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure what you mean by managing T.O, cause when he was healthy he was unstoppable against you all.
Corey Webster didn't deal with TO the first two games, and in the first game when we doubled him he did nothing and Witten tore us up. Spags got better and better as the season wore on and I don't expect him to suddenly get a lot worse, especially with a more talented secondary.
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Old 05-16-2008, 02:56 PM    (permalink
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All i ever hear about the Giants' is their pass rush, and never about their secondary. Kiwanuka and Tuck aren't gonna cover T.O when he's torching them for 150 again.
You don't have to have name players in the secondary when you have a DL like that I would take a great line and average CB's over great CB's and a average line.
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