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Old 05-16-2008, 11:19 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
Watch this thread turn into a "how good will your teams defense be this year" thread lol.
I like it when people say, "They won't be the best, but look for *insert favorite team* to surprise people."

If they're not the best, then why are you ******* talking about them?
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Old 05-16-2008, 11:57 PM    (permalink
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I just wanted to throw out a name I haven't seen much and thats the Texans...It's looking like a safe bet that Mario Williams will be the best DE in the game next year, Amobi looks like he has potential to be a top 10 3 tech in the game, and sleeper pick Okam is going to be the wild card...He gets to stay close to home, and do what he's best at and thats sucking up double teams to free up Okoye and Mario...He is going to lead to even more freedom for Demeco who is going to make another pro bowl, they don't have much at safety, but if they get pressure it will make those guys look like pro bowlers.


As far as the D line goes, if Okam pans out they could have one of the best lines in the game.
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Old 05-17-2008, 12:31 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
I just wanted to throw out a name I haven't seen much and thats the Texans...It's looking like a safe bet that Mario Williams will be the best DE in the game next year, Amobi looks like he has potential to be a top 10 3 tech in the game, and sleeper pick Okam is going to be the wild card...He gets to stay close to home, and do what he's best at and thats sucking up double teams to free up Okoye and Mario...He is going to lead to even more freedom for Demeco who is going to make another pro bowl, they don't have much at safety, but if they get pressure it will make those guys look like pro bowlers.
That secondary is ass, though.
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Old 05-17-2008, 12:39 AM    (permalink
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That secondary is ass, though.
Well I could argue that if that front 7 plays up to par that secondary could make plays (ala Giants vs Cowboys in the playoffs)...I don't know the status of Dunta but I'm assuming he is healthy by at least mid season, so I'm basing alot of it on that...Molden I believe will be a pro bowler at some point, so being groomed as a #2 CB will do him some good, he has tremendous potential and when your D line is getting pressure the way that D line should, both those guys should end up with alot of picks...Their Safeties are average at best, but seeing as how they have a great front 7, and if both corners end up playing at a high level they will be good enough.


You can have anybody in your secondary making plays if nobody can block Mario, and thats what it really comes down to, and in spurts last year he looked unblockable...If Okam can do his job of taking on two blockers Mario and/or Okoye should see few double teams.
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Old 05-17-2008, 07:56 AM    (permalink
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A lot of the Giants defense depends on Strahan. Our DTs are average. Nothing special. But if Strahan comes back for another year, you will still see a lot of Justin Tuck lining up at DT. I'd imagine even more than last year as they will want to get him on the field as much as possible.

And then on 3rd and passing downs you will see a line of Osi, Strahan, Tuck, and Kiwi.

But if Strahan retires than Tuck will play more LE and our DTs will be on the field more, and it also hurts are four aces package.
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Old 05-17-2008, 08:04 AM    (permalink
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A lot of the Giants defense depends on Strahan. Our DTs are average. Nothing special. But if Strahan comes back for another year, you will still see a lot of Justin Tuck lining up at DT. I'd imagine even more than last year as they will want to get him on the field as much as possible.

And then on 3rd and passing downs you will see a line of Osi, Strahan, Tuck, and Kiwi.

But if Strahan retires than Tuck will play more LE and our DTs will be on the field more, and it also hurts are four aces package.
exactly, if Strahan comes back, this D is basically the same it was last year and our pass rush will just be our whole D.

one thing though, I think if Strahan doesn't come back, obviously the 4 aces is weaker, but Alford looked good late in the year filling in there for Kiwi. Especially in the Super Bowl on the last drive of the game ;)
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Old 05-17-2008, 11:26 AM    (permalink
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I really like Houston but I think they need to add some more depth in their front 7 to be top 10. Mario and Okoye are beasts, weaver and Okam are solid starters but I'd like to see them add a situational pass rushing DE, then shift Weaver inside on passing downs. Also think they need another OLB or two. But I like where they're headed and think that in another year they'll be able to hang with the Colts, Jags and Titans.
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Old 05-18-2008, 08:00 PM    (permalink
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i think the raiders will have a top 10 d maybe top 5
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Old 05-18-2008, 10:55 PM    (permalink
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I don't buy it. I think its completely bogus that you can put a team in the "Top Group" that was dead last in a major defensive category last year.

I know everyone says there were last because everyone threw on them because you can't run on them. Well thats still not good pass defense. Take the top 5 run stopping defense's in Vikes, Ravens, Steelers, Redskins, and the Titans and Baltimore is closest in pass defense at the 20 spot and they really only had Ed Reed back there the whole year.

I just can't see how you put them in the Top Level. And this maybe homerish but the Vikings don't deserve to be in the same category as the Steelers who were #3 in both rushing and passing. So it is possible to stop both.
That was last year though. The Bucs picked 5th in the draft and the next year they won their division, the Bears were in the SB and then picked early the next year. Last year is not the be all and end all predictor.

The Vikings have added Madiue Williams a specialist cover man, Tyrell Johnson a well rounded saftey that can match up physically to most WRs, Allen who will give the QBs less time to find holes and wait for their man to open up, and the young corners: McCaughly, Griffin and Gordon have another year under their belts. On top of that the new Dline will open up single match ups for our younger DEs who have another year under their belt to excel. AND MOST importnantly we will no longer have to send our linebackers on blitz all the time and this will GREATLY improve the pass defence. Saying that the Vikes will be crap on pass D again without taking into consideration the circumstances is a very one dimensional statement.
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Old 05-18-2008, 11:48 PM    (permalink
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The best defense will be Albert Haynesworth.
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:07 AM    (permalink
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The Eagles will have a top defense if they keep Lito Sheppard...

They have two young DTs (1st round picks) that are very good at stopping the run...

Their LBs are very young, athletic, and very good at pass coverage...

I'd probably go with a top 5 of
Minnesota
New York
San Diego
Philadelphia
and yeah probably Baltimore... I really like the addition of Fabian Washington...
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Old 05-19-2008, 12:41 PM    (permalink
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The Eagles will have a top defense if they keep Lito Sheppard...

They have two young DTs (1st round picks) that are very good at stopping the run...

Their LBs are very young, athletic, and very good at pass coverage...

I'd probably go with a top 5 of
Minnesota
New York
San Diego
Philadelphia
and yeah probably Baltimore... I really like the addition of Fabian Washington...
Everything sounds right, except by New York, i know you meant Dallas.
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Old 05-19-2008, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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I say the Vikings have the best Defense definately fantasy wise.
#1 rush defense in a division that has unprovin QB's. Then if those QB's decide to throw Allen can get to the QB with the two monster's inside and Winfield is an animal on the corner

2. Chargers
3. Ravens
4. Bears
5. Raiders
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Old 05-19-2008, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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I just don't buy the Vikings being at the top. They'll be up there in the top ten, likely top 5 but I can't see them at the top spot. They have been dead last in pass defense the past two years. Last year they gave up 266 passing yards a game, that's ridiculous. Jared Allen is a huge addition, but he's not going to make that pass defense good enough for them to hold the title of best defense. They allowed 5 games of 300 or more passing yards last year. Favre and the Packers got them for 344 and 351 passing yards, McNabb and the Eagles got them for 333, more embarrassingly Brian Griese and the Bears lit them up for 381 yards, and Culpepper and the Raiders got them for 344.

I don't gets whats so hard to understand, a better pass rush leads to a better pass defense...JA might not play CB, but if he can get to the QB that much faster it doesn't matter who they have back there, the pass rush is going to help that pass defense.
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Old 05-19-2008, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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I don't gets whats so hard to understand, a better pass rush leads to a better pass defense...JA might not play CB, but if he can get to the QB that much faster it doesn't matter who they have back there, the pass rush is going to help that pass defense.
I don't understand whats so hard to understand, they were dead last, one person isn't gonna make that big of a difference. He MIGHT improve them to middle of the pack on pass defense but thats still not gonna warrant them to be the best defense overall.
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Old 05-19-2008, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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I just don't buy the Vikings being at the top. They'll be up there in the top ten, likely top 5 but I can't see them at the top spot. They have been dead last in pass defense the past two years. Last year they gave up 266 passing yards a game, that's ridiculous. Jared Allen is a huge addition, but he's not going to make that pass defense good enough for them to hold the title of best defense. They allowed 5 games of 300 or more passing yards last year. Favre and the Packers got them for 344 and 351 passing yards, McNabb and the Eagles got them for 333, more embarrassingly Brian Griese and the Bears lit them up for 381 yards, and Culpepper and the Raiders got them for 344.
Here is how I see it. The Vikings D-Line will benifit from the addition of a top 5 DE in the game in Allen. As for our other DE spot we have three young DE's who will benifit from other year in the league and all of the focus going to the other three quarters of the line. Just with the sheer amount of talent on our D-Line teams will mean teams will often have to stick a blocking TE or fullback in the game. That right there means one less receiver.

We also happen to have a fairly young group of CB's and with another year in the league and the addition of a legit pass rush they will get much better.

We also happen to have a group of very underated Linebackers who unlike last year won't need to blitz pretty much every play.

Last year we had Dwight Smith who had to be the most horrible starting safety in the league and the addition of Madieu Williams and the lose of him will mean much improved play at Safety. We also have Tyrell ohnson so if either of them aren't playing too well he is in.

Last year we had a special defense, pretty much all because of our rush D. This year we added some depth at D, arguably the best DE in the game, and a very good S in Madieu Williams. There is not way this defense won't be better as we addressed all of our weaknesses from last year. Only time will tell but I think we will have a top pass rush and run D and we will have the best defense in the league.
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Old 05-19-2008, 04:25 PM    (permalink
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Here is how I see it. The Vikings D-Line will benifit from the addition of a top 5 DE in the game in Allen. As for our other DE spot we have three young DE's who will benifit from other year in the league and all of the focus going to the other three quarters of the line. Just with the sheer amount of talent on our D-Line teams will mean teams will often have to stick a blocking TE or fullback in the game. That right there means one less receiver.

We also happen to have a fairly young group of CB's and with another year in the league and the addition of a legit pass rush they will get much better.

We also happen to have a group of very underated Linebackers who unlike last year won't need to blitz pretty much every play.

Last year we had Dwight Smith who had to be the most horrible starting safety in the league and the addition of Madieu Williams and the lose of him will mean much improved play at Safety. We also have Tyrell ohnson so if either of them aren't playing too well he is in.

Last year we had a special defense, pretty much all because of our rush D. This year we added some depth at D, arguably the best DE in the game, and a very good S in Madieu Williams. There is not way this defense won't be better as we addressed all of our weaknesses from last year. Only time will tell but I think we will have a top pass rush and run D and we will have the best defense in the league.
Madieu Williams, a very good safety, since when?

I agree with GB12, their pass defense is still too weak for them to be great. And I still think they have average linebackers.
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Old 05-19-2008, 04:58 PM    (permalink
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Madieu Williams, a very good safety, since when?

I agree with GB12, their pass defense is still too weak for them to be great. And I still think they have average linebackers.
I think Gonzo was exagerating a bit when he said Madieu is a very good safety. But the fact remains he is a good young safety and is a upgrade over Dwight Smith.

Anways average linebackers? thats a bunch of BS, just a stupid thing to say. E.J. Henderson is a beast in the Middle, Greenway had a very good year at WOLB, and Leber is one of the better 4-3 SOLBs in the league. You would find it hard to find many 4-3 LB corps that are overall better than the Vikings.

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Originally Posted by terribletowel39
I don't understand whats so hard to understand, they were dead last, one person isn't gonna make that big of a difference. He MIGHT improve them to middle of the pack on pass defense but thats still not gonna warrant them to be the best defense overall.
It isn't just one person it's 2 people well actually 3 considering we will be getting winfield back. But anyways yes Jared Allen will make THAT BIG of a difference. It really shouldn't be this difficult for you to understand, the Vikings play zone coverage the majority of the time. Without a consistent pass rush any QB is going to pick apart that zone even if you have a great CB corp.

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Old 05-19-2008, 05:09 PM    (permalink
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It isn't just one person it's 2 people well actually 3 considering we will be getting winfield back. But anyways yes Jared Allen will make THAT BIG of a difference. It really shouldn't be this difficult for you to understand, the Vikings play zone coverage the majority of the time. Without a consistent pass rush any QB is going to pick apart that zone even if you have a great CB corp.
Ok, you are right, Jared Allen is gonna make yall the #1 defense in the league next year. I'm dumb for not understanding that he is the greatest thing to ever lace up football cleats and he will have such an impact that opposing QB's will just spike the ball everytime they are asked to attempt a pass.

Being serious now, you are blinded by homer goggles if you think Madiue Williams is gonna help your secondary at all. Need I remind you, he came from the Bengals and if they got rid of him, he must be good. And Jared Allen will not make THAT big of a difference to make me believe yall will be the best defense next year. I can see top 10. But this thread is titled Best Defense and they aren't gonna be that.
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Old 05-19-2008, 05:17 PM    (permalink
Crazy_Chris
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Ok, you are right, Jared Allen is gonna make yall the #1 defense in the league next year. I'm dumb for not understanding that he is the greatest thing to ever lace up football cleats and he will have such an impact that opposing QB's will just spike the ball everytime they are asked to attempt a pass.

Being serious now, you are blinded by homer goggles if you think Madiue Williams is gonna help your secondary at all. Need I remind you, he came from the Bengals and if they got rid of him, he must be good. And Jared Allen will not make THAT big of a difference to make me believe yall will be the best defense next year. I can see top 10. But this thread is titled Best Defense and they aren't gonna be that.
Why is it being blinded by homer goggles, Madieu Williams>Dwight Smith = He will help the secondary. Also I have not once mentioned personally feeling the Vikings will have the best defense. I agree they will be definatly top 10 more likely top 5. But you have to be blind to deny the distinct potential they have to be the best defense in the league next year. So there should be no problem with people stating their personal opinion that the Vikes will be. I have no problem with you thinking they won't. I do however have a problem with you not knowing what your talking about when it comes to the impact Jared Allen will have on the Vikings defense.
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Old 05-19-2008, 05:22 PM    (permalink
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Why is it being blinded by homer goggles, Madieu Williams>Dwight Smith = He will help the secondary. Also I have not once mentioned personally feeling the Vikings will have the best defense. I agree they will be definatly top 10 more likely top 5. But you have to be blind to deny the distinct potential they have to be the best defense in the league next year. So there should be no problem with people stating their personal opinion that the Vikes will be. I have no problem with you thinking they won't. I do however have a problem with you not knowing what your talking about when it comes to the impact Jared Allen will have on the Vikings defense.
Oh Crazy Chris. They won't be the best defense next year. I am willing to bet that. And I understand the impact Jared Allen will have. And like I said they will be top 10 but I don't think they will be in the top 5 or #1.
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Old 05-19-2008, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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When an already great defensive team improves at almost every position andgets worse in none of them they are bound to be even better. Nobody will know just how much of an impact Jared Allen will make on the Vikings D so wel will have to wait and see. My argument is it DE is not the only position that will improve next year. You are blinded by your anti-Vikings googles if you think Madieu Wiliams is not an improvement over Dwight Smith. He is no longer playing on the Bungles and should be better then last year simply by having more talent then him. Jared Allen was doubled a hell of a lot last year because there was nobody around him and now he is playing with two DT's who got doubled most of last year. Fact is you can't double all of them. Add that to the fact that the Vikings have Ray Edwards and Brian Robison, both of who had good years last year and stand to improve and the fact that they will play next to 3 of the best D-Lineman in the game makes for a scary D-Line. Add that to an underated LB corp, an up and coming CB corp with a top 15 CB in the league and a strong S corp and you have a very good defense. I do think that the Vikings will have a top 5 defense next year but we will have to wait and see just how big of a difference our new players make and just how much our young players will improve.
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Old 05-19-2008, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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Ok, I don't think any of us are gonna budge, and we all know each others opinions.

Just to point out though, when it comes to NFC, if it ain't New Orleans its the Vikings I am rooting for. I am a Steelers fan, I am bound by law to atleast enjoy watching yall play football, you pound the rock and stop the run. Come on.
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Old 05-19-2008, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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The we shall all agree to disagree.
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Old 05-19-2008, 05:34 PM    (permalink
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You can bet that with one of the people who think they will be the best defense because I don't.

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Originally Posted by terribletowel39
And before everyone jumps on me for saying the Giants have a better D-Line than the Vikes, the Vikes can stop the run. Thats it. The Giants can do both. Yes, Allen will help the Vikes in the pass rush department but if Jared Allen gets 15 and half sacks next year the Vikings will have 15 and half sacks total as a team it seems.
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I don't understand whats so hard to understand, they were dead last, one person isn't gonna make that big of a difference. He MIGHT improve them to middle of the pack on pass defense but thats still not gonna warrant them to be the best defense overall.

Anyways i'm not sure you really know the impact Jared Allen will have as seen above you have seemingly been trying to down play the impact through out this thread. He will make every single part of the defense better than last year. He improves the Defensive line by helping out the Young talented DE's across from him, and by taking some of the double teams our pro-bowl DTs would be normally seeing. By extension of helping the D-line this helps free up the LBs since they won't have to blitz as much as last year. Finally with the added pressure he helps the Secondary that was left out to dry many times last year by the lack of consistent pressure.

The scariest thing about the allen accuisition is that he should only get better now that he has 2 pro bowl DTs next to him.
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