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Old 05-17-2008, 11:28 AM    (permalink
Crickett
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Originally Posted by scar988 View Post
yes, but why play a guy either out of position or in a rotation when you got him in the first?
Well think of it this way.

If Strahan holds out, Justin Tuck is going to start and Kiwanuka will still be out of position.
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Old 05-17-2008, 12:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Crickett View Post
Well think of it this way.

If Strahan holds out, Justin Tuck is going to start and Kiwanuka will still be out of position.
With how much Spags moves people around our defense is "playing out of position" half the time, but the beauty of it is he puts everyone in position to take advantage of their strengths.
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Old 05-17-2008, 05:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by neko4 View Post
Why waste the money on him to play one or two more years?
His leadership cannot be measured with stats. He is still one of the best DEs in the game, and the stability he brings to the lockerroom is critical to our success. He also is great at mentoring our young guys. Every team needs a Michael Strahan.

As for the contract, he'll come back for less than that. Its obvious to me at least he's coming back, the Giants have said theyre willing to give him more money, he's set his price (which won't be given), the Giants will return with 6 mill instead of the 4 he's getting now, and he'll eventually sign that contract. Its business, theyre playing their games right now.

Ill be shocked if Strahan retires.
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Old 05-17-2008, 09:04 PM    (permalink
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Well think of it this way.

If Strahan holds out, Justin Tuck is going to start and Kiwanuka will still be out of position.
Because he won't be starting? Did you not pay attention to the playoffs last year? Kiwanuka will play, and he will play a lot.
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Old 05-17-2008, 09:19 PM    (permalink
Crickett
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Because he won't be starting?
No he won't. Justin Tuck last year had 65 tackles, 10 sacks and was one of the forces that made the Giants defense work.











And he started 2 games. Including the playoffs.
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Old 05-17-2008, 09:25 PM    (permalink
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No he won't. Justin Tuck last year had 65 tackles, 10 sacks and was one of the forces that made the Giants defense work.











And he started 2 games. Including the playoffs.
Not what I meant. Let me rephrase.

"Kiwanuka will still be out of position"

I asked if you meant he will be out of position because he won't start. DE is a position where "starting" really is more of a title for show with how often they get rotated. Therefore Kiwanuka won't be "out of position".
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Old 05-17-2008, 09:42 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SNIPER26 View Post
Not what I meant. Let me rephrase.

"Kiwanuka will still be out of position"

I asked if you meant he will be out of position because he won't start. DE is a position where "starting" really is more of a title for show with how often they get rotated. Therefore Kiwanuka won't be "out of position".
Well, what I mean is.....


If Michael Strahan isn't there, Justin Tuck becomes the starting defensive end and Kiwanuka will remain a starting linebacker. This was out of a response to scar saying or at the least suggesting that Strahan not being there would allow Kiwanuka to start at his natural DE position.
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Old 05-17-2008, 11:39 PM    (permalink
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Your forgetting the fact that Spags moves people around so much that with strahan there or not kiwi will be getting reps with his hand down and up.
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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I wouldnt say Kiwi at LB is really out of position. Even when he was a rookie in Lewis's defense he frequently dropped back into coverage as a DE and picked off 2 passes. He is a finesse pass rusher, he can't really take on a double team very well. So by dropping him back a few yards, we play to his strengths in how he is athletic, decent in coverage, quicker with less power to him, and good in the open field as far as tackling.
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Old 05-18-2008, 05:43 PM    (permalink
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I wouldnt say Kiwi at LB is really out of position. Even when he was a rookie in Lewis's defense he frequently dropped back into coverage as a DE and picked off 2 passes. He is a finesse pass rusher, he can't really take on a double team very well. So by dropping him back a few yards, we play to his strengths in how he is athletic, decent in coverage, quicker with less power to him, and good in the open field as far as tackling.
Kiwi's one of my favorite giants players because of his potential, but his coverage isn't a strength, for a DE he was good and caused confusion, as a LB he's below average.

spags played kiwi up near the line a lot to keephim out of coverage. Kiwi has the atheticism, explosiveness, long arms pass rushing skill to be one of the league's best, but he's gotta get smarter against the run and more comfortable in coverage. He plays LB and DE in our scheme and I think with some refinement he'll be a great DE/OLB hybrid for us, similar to how Tuck is a great UT/DE hybrid for us. It's that versatility that spags uses so well and something we'd lose if he left, although I hope the cards let Pendergast go for a more traditional 3-4 co-ordinator because he also does a great job moving people around and using a lot of different packages.
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Old 05-18-2008, 05:46 PM    (permalink
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Kiwi's one of my favorite giants players because of his potential, but his coverage isn't a strength, for a DE he was good and caused confusion, as a LB he's below average.

spags played kiwi up near the line a lot to keephim out of coverage. Kiwi has the atheticism, explosiveness, long arms pass rushing skill to be one of the league's best, but he's gotta get smarter against the run and more comfortable in coverage. He plays LB and DE in our scheme and I think with some refinement he'll be a great DE/OLB hybrid for us, similar to how Tuck is a great UT/DE hybrid for us. It's that versatility that spags uses so well and something we'd lose if he left, although I hope the cards let Pendergast go for a more traditional 3-4 co-ordinator because he also does a great job moving people around and using a lot of different packages.
if we lose spags after this season, thats the guy thats #1 on my list to replace him.
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Old 05-18-2008, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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if we lose spags after this season, thats the guy thats #1 on my list to replace him.
My subjective ranking of the league's DCs starts:
Spags
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Rex Ryan
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Old 05-18-2008, 05:56 PM    (permalink
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Just my opinion, but he really needs to cut the whole "I've earned it" thing, man up, and get his ass to training camp like everyone else.
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Old 05-18-2008, 05:59 PM    (permalink
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Give him 5 and he'll take it. It's not like he'll be offered more than that for a TV deal.
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Old 05-18-2008, 06:10 PM    (permalink
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Give him 5 and he'll take it. It's not like he'll be offered more than that for a TV deal.
The problem isn't money, the problem is old man strahan needs a walker 3 days a week after games to recover enough to play the next game, so he really doesn't want to do two a days, like really badly doesn't want to, see he'll "hold out", pay his fines and get back into thegame with our young DEs getting more reps in TC.

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Old 05-18-2008, 06:57 PM    (permalink
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I always liked him as a player, but off the field, I hate the guy. I still remember, when Tiki called him out, before Tiki went Hollywood on us, with his new fame. And that caused a stir in the offseason when our DT ripped Tiki a new one. Tiki basically called Strahan selfish and greedy.

I say give 6 million max, and if he wants to take it, good, or seeya later, go retire, thanks for your service for 15 seasons.
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Old 05-18-2008, 08:49 PM    (permalink
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They wouldn't just keep Tuck at DT and put MK at DE?
Tuck was nothing short of dominant at DT.
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Old 05-18-2008, 09:01 PM    (permalink
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They wouldn't just keep Tuck at DT and put MK at DE?
Tuck was nothing short of dominant at DT.
We would do that in certain package but you have to remember Tuck wasn't everydown DT but rather a situational player there, so he would start and still play DT in certain packages.
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Old 05-18-2008, 09:03 PM    (permalink
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We would do that in certain package but you have to remember Tuck wasn't everydown DT but rather a situational player there, so he would start and still play DT in certain packages.
Ahh ok I wasn't sure if he was a situational DT or not. So does MK play LB or DE?
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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Ahh ok I wasn't sure if he was a situational DT or not. So does MK play LB or DE?
That's a question alot of fans are asking. I am guessing he may go to DE, but still not sure what's going to happen. I am sure we will coaches and the GM would have to meet and evaluate all this once Strahan retires.
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Old 05-19-2008, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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Ahh ok I wasn't sure if he was a situational DT or not. So does MK play LB or DE?
Kiwi will probably start at LB, I'm pretty sure Strahan will be back, but with spags moving people around Kiwi will get his snaps on the line as well incertain packages.
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