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Old 06-16-2008, 10:49 AM    (permalink
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I think curbing expectation can be a good thing, and conversely not curbing expectation can be a bad thing. Maybe coming out with this instills some confidence in the Vikings, positively reinforcing them towards their goal, however I can't help but be reminded of Nick Saban's 2006 Miami Dolphins as a cautionary tale in this regard. After trading for Daunte Culpepper, there was a poor job of curbing expectation in terms of how the Dolphins were viewed, coming off a 9-7 season in 05 (better than the Vikes did last year). Sports Illustrated famously had them in the Super Bowl in August. Yet once the season started, there was nothing but greater disappointment and frustration in the wake of those unchecked expectations.

Certainly it's in Brad Childress' best interests to try and curb expectations, because the greater perceived disappointment in his third year as the head coach, the greater the likelihood he could be fired.
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Old 06-16-2008, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by RollingMoss View Post
Did he say that? No. He said that the Vikings can make the playoffs and once in the playoffs, anything can happen.
Yup. And the Dolphins can make the playoffs, and once in, anything can happen. Doesn't change the fact that the Vikings making the Super Bowl is nothing short of an extreme longshot. I'll take the Giants, Packers, and Cowboys out of the NFC (probably a few other teams as well) any day of the week.

Want proof? Go ask your local bookie for the line on the Vikings winning the Super Bowl. Now look at the line for some teams that actually made the playoffs last year.
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Old 06-16-2008, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Duster View Post
Yup. And the Dolphins can make the playoffs, and once in, anything can happen. Doesn't change the fact that the Vikings making the Super Bowl is nothing short of an extreme longshot. I'll take the Giants, Packers, and Cowboys out of the NFC (probably a few other teams as well) any day of the week.

Want proof? Go ask your local bookie for the line on the Vikings winning the Super Bowl. Now look at the line for some teams that actually made the playoffs last year.
sure, bookies are proof.

Defense wins championships and the vikes do have a pretty good shot. Sure there's other teams in the NFC who could make it far but I don't think that 'an extreme longshot' really describes the Vikes' chances. The Lions are an extreme longshot, the Vikes? They probably have a good shot.
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Old 06-16-2008, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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sure, bookies are proof.

Defense wins championships and the vikes do have a pretty good shot. Sure there's other teams in the NFC who could make it far but I don't think that 'an extreme longshot' really describes the Vikes' chances. The Lions are an extreme longshot, the Vikes? They probably have a good shot.
Good shot? They have a good shot at making the playoffs, not winning the Super Bowl.

Their defense was rated 20th last season. Buccaneers were 2nd. Where's the Bucs praise? They at least made the playoffs.

Adding a few free agents doesn't take you from a .500 team to a Super Bowl winner overnight, especially when the most notable of those free agents is a huge character risk.
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Old 06-16-2008, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Duster View Post
Good shot? They have a good shot at making the playoffs, not winning the Super Bowl.

Their defense was rated 20th last season. Buccaneers were 2nd. Where's the Bucs praise? They at least made the playoffs.

Adding a few free agents doesn't take you from a .500 team to a Super Bowl winner overnight, especially when the most notable of those free agents is a huge character risk.
... is that what you want? fine, here we go:

well done, Bucs D!

A few free agents at key positions, a very very dangerous running attack, a very strong OL and the top DL in the League (IMO) makes them a contender, and not just to make the playoffs, to make the SB.
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Old 06-16-2008, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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If the Vikes are going to win a championship, their defense will have to play on par with the 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs, etc. for that to happen. I don't see that being the case in 2008 honestly, for as much as some are going bonkers over the Jared Allen acquisition.

If the Vikings do make it to Tampa for the Super Bowl this year, they should pray for another Rain Bowl like XLI. That would help lessen the gaps in both passing offense and passing defense between them and their AFC opponent, giving them a better chance.
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:04 AM    (permalink
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Don't they say that defense wins championships?
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Old 06-17-2008, 04:13 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duster View Post
On paper, do you think the Vikings are a better team than the Giants, Cowboys, or Packers? How about even the Redskins, Seahawks, or Buccaneers?
Do you really think on paper the Packers, Giants, Redskins, Seahawks, and Buccaneers are all overall more talented than the Vikings?

Seriously of all the teams you listed the Cowboys are the only one that is more talented on paper.

Giants
QB:Giants>>Vikings
RB/FB:Giants<<Vikings
WR/TE:Giants>>Vikings
O-line:Giants<Vikings

D-line:Giants=Vikings
Lbs:Giants<Vikings
CBs:Giants<Vikings
S:Giants<Vikings

Giants:2 Vikings:5

Packers
QB:Packers=Vikings
RB/TE:Packers<<Vikings
WR/TE:Packers>>Vikings
O-line:Packers<Vikings

D-line:Packers<Vikings
Lbs:Packers<Vikings(very close)
CBs:Packers>Vikings
S:Packers<Vikings

Packers:2 Vikings:5

Redskins
QB:Redskins>Vikings
RB/FB:Redskins<Vikings
WR/TE:Redskins>Vikings
O-line:Redskins<Vikings

D-line:Redskins<<Vikings
Lbs:Redskins<Vikings
CB:Redskins>Vikings
S:Redskins<Vikings

Redskins:3 Vikings:5

Seahawks
Qb:Seahawks>>Vikings
RB/FB:Seahawks<<Vikings
WR/TE:Seahawks>Vikings
O-line:Seahawks<Vikings

D-line:Seahawks<Vikings
Lbs:Seahawks>Vikings
Cbs:Seahawks>Vikings
S:Sehawks<Vikings

Seahawks:4 Vikings:4

Buccaneers:
QB:Buccaneers>>Vikings
Rb/FB:Buccaneers<<Vikings
WR/TE:Buccaneers>Vikings(close)
O-line:Buccaneers<Vikings

D-line:Buccaneers<Vikings
Lbs:Buccaneers<Vikings(Close)
CBs:Buccaneers>Vikings
S:Buccaneers<Vikings(Close)

Buccaneers:3 Vikings:5

Obviously talent on paper doesn't always translate to success on the field but you are using the complete wrong arguement against the Vikings. They are one of the most talented teams in the NFC on paper. That is the reason why they are getting all this hype.

Edit:Just for the Record I think the Dallas Cowboys, New York Giants, Seattle Seahawks, and the Philadelphia Eagles will all be better teams than the Vikings this year(in the NFC).

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Old 06-17-2008, 07:11 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Chris View Post
Do you really think on paper the Packers, Giants, Redskins, Seahawks, and Buccaneers are all overall more talented than the Vikings?

Seriously of all the teams you listed the Cowboys are the only one that is more talented on paper.

Giants
QB:Giants>>Vikings
RB/FB:Giants<<Vikings
WR/TE:Giants>>Vikings
O-line:Giants<Vikings

D-line:Giants=Vikings
Lbs:Giants<Vikings
CBs:Giants<Vikings
S:Giants<Vikings

Giants:2 Vikings:5

Packers
QB:Packers=Vikings
RB/TE:Packers<<Vikings
WR/TE:Packers>>Vikings
O-line:Packers<Vikings

D-line:Packers<Vikings
Lbs:Packers<Vikings(very close)
CBs:Packers>Vikings
S:Packers<Vikings

Packers:2 Vikings:5

Redskins
QB:Redskins>Vikings
RB/FB:Redskins<Vikings
WR/TE:Redskins>Vikings
O-line:Redskins<Vikings

D-line:Redskins<<Vikings
Lbs:Redskins<Vikings
CB:Redskins>Vikings
S:Redskins<Vikings

Redskins:3 Vikings:5

Seahawks
Qb:Seahawks>>Vikings
RB/FB:Seahawks<<Vikings
WR/TE:Seahawks>Vikings
O-line:Seahawks<Vikings

D-line:Seahawks<Vikings
Lbs:Seahawks>Vikings
Cbs:Seahawks>Vikings
S:Sehawks<Vikings

Seahawks:4 Vikings:4

Buccaneers:
QB:Buccaneers>>Vikings
Rb/FB:Buccaneers<<Vikings
WR/TE:Buccaneers>Vikings(close)
O-line:Buccaneers<Vikings

D-line:Buccaneers<Vikings
Lbs:Buccaneers<Vikings(Close)
CBs:Buccaneers>Vikings
S:Buccaneers<Vikings(Close)

Buccaneers:3 Vikings:5

Obviously talent on paper doesn't always translate to success on the field but you are using the complete wrong arguement against the Vikings. They are one of the most talented teams in the NFC on paper. That is the reason why they are getting all this hype.

Edit:Just for the Record I think the Dallas Cowboys, New York Giants, Seattle Seahawks, and the Philadelphia Eagles will all be better teams than the Vikings this year(in the NFC).
That's the problem with you draftniks. You look at talent on paper as a bunch of players and compare them unit-by-unit or some other ridiculous method. Look at what the Giants, Packers, and Cowboys did last season. The teams are all relatively the same except maybe the Packers who lost Favre and have an unproven quarterback replacing him. Do you realistically think the Vikings made enough improvements in the offseason to pass all of these teams, plus some teams that will likely emerge?

Dallas's defense is better, as is their offense.
New York's defense is better, as is their offense.
Green Bay's defense is better, and the offense will be a tossup between Rodgers and Jackson (most would put faith in Rodgers before Jackson).
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Old 06-17-2008, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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Do you realistically think the Vikings made enough improvements in the offseason to pass all of these teams, plus some teams that will likely emerge?
Yes. The Vikings addressed their weakest points with a Top5 DE and a legitimate deep threat at receiver and a playmaking safety. As everyone has ALREADY SAID, their QB is the question mark. If he improves, it seems quite logical they will be one of the better teams in the NFC, and thus, have a chance at the Super Bowl. I like to argue just to argue too, but you're getting out of hand.

Quote:
Dallas's defense is better, as is their offense.
New York's defense is better, as is their offense.
Green Bay's defense is better, and the offense will be a tossup between Rodgers and Jackson (most would put faith in Rodgers before Jackson).
No one is saying Dallas doesn't have a chance, or New York or Green Bay. They're just saying that the Vikings have a great chance also, WHAT THE **** DON'T YOU GET ABOUT THIS!?

Also - Green Bay lost their Franchise QB and their starting DT. New York lost their Hall of Fame DE, some linebackers, and their best safety. How have they gotten 'better'? Again though, no one is saying they don't have a chance either as the NFC is wide-open...and that wide-openness is why the Vikings also have a Great Chance.
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Old 06-18-2008, 05:16 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duster View Post
That's the problem with you draftniks. You look at talent on paper as a bunch of players and compare them unit-by-unit or some other ridiculous method. Look at what the Giants, Packers, and Cowboys did last season. The teams are all relatively the same except maybe the Packers who lost Favre and have an unproven quarterback replacing him. Do you realistically think the Vikings made enough improvements in the offseason to pass all of these teams, plus some teams that will likely emerge?

Dallas's defense is better, as is their offense.
New York's defense is better, as is their offense.
Green Bay's defense is better, and the offense will be a tossup between Rodgers and Jackson (most would put faith in Rodgers before Jackson).

See this is the problem with you who talk out of their ass. You get called out for not knowing what you are talking about. So you than decide to take a swipe at draftniks(which the vast majority of posters on this site are), calling their methods ridiculous. You would have gotten a lot more respect had you simply said something along the lines of... yea your right my bad they have talent at the positions on paper. However I'm skeptical of how much better they will be this year as a unit. Where as we have a good idea how the other teams should perform as a unit.

Anything you have to say on the subject is no longer dicussion worthy. By the way nice post RollingMoss.
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Old 06-18-2008, 06:46 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by RollingMoss View Post
Yes. The Vikings addressed their weakest points with a Top5 DE and a legitimate deep threat at receiver and a playmaking safety. As everyone has ALREADY SAID, their QB is the question mark. If he improves, it seems quite logical they will be one of the better teams in the NFC, and thus, have a chance at the Super Bowl. I like to argue just to argue too, but you're getting out of hand.


.
Bernard Berrian is fast and produces, but its not like he's anything special.

Allen though extremely talented will not instantly turn that pass defense around. The Panthers had less sacks from their defensive line than the Vikings last year and their pass defense was well better.

Minnesota 32 overall

Carolina 17 overall

Minnesota sacks: 38, 8th overall
Carolina sacks: 23, 31st overall

Larry Allen is not going to turn the worst pass defense in the league into an average one, or even a competitive one.

Antoine Winfield and Griffin would not be able to contain a set of receivers like TO and Terry Glenn. Hell, they wouldn't stand a chance against Plax and Toomer or for that matter Driver and Jennings.

If involved in a shootout like a lot of playoff games tend to end up as, then Minnesota won't come out on top.
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Old 06-18-2008, 06:53 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by RollingMoss View Post
Yes. The Vikings addressed their weakest points with a Top5 DE and a legitimate deep threat at receiver and a playmaking safety. As everyone has ALREADY SAID, their QB is the question mark. If he improves, it seems quite logical they will be one of the better teams in the NFC, and thus, have a chance at the Super Bowl. I like to argue just to argue too, but you're getting out of hand.



No one is saying Dallas doesn't have a chance, or New York or Green Bay. They're just saying that the Vikings have a great chance also, WHAT THE **** DON'T YOU GET ABOUT THIS!?

Also - Green Bay lost their Franchise QB and their starting DT. New York lost their Hall of Fame DE, some linebackers, and their best safety. How have they gotten 'better'? Again though, no one is saying they don't have a chance either as the NFC is wide-open...and that wide-openness is why the Vikings also have a Great Chance.
Dallas, Green Bay, and New York have a much better chance. That's the point. Every team has a chance, but expecting a non-playoff team last year to come in and make the Super Bowl is just overly optimistic. They aren't even better on paper than quite a few teams in the NFC and definitely haven't shown much on the field.

I wasn't saying that Dallas, Green Bay, or New York got better...I'm saying they ARE better.
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Old 06-18-2008, 08:14 AM    (permalink
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Allen, the biggest name among the newcomers, was even more direct. "We expect to go to the Super Bowl," he said."[/i][/b][/quote]


Jon Kitna expects big things from the Lions in 2008.

"Our expectation is we will be disappointed if we don't win 10 games," Kitna following a Tuesday training session. "Because that will mean we're not in the playoffs and that sucks.

"I can't make it any simpler than that. Anybody who says that's not their expectation level is not much of a competitor."

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Old 06-18-2008, 09:08 AM    (permalink
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Dallas, Green Bay, and New York have a much better chance. That's the point. Every team has a chance, but expecting a non-playoff team last year to come in and make the Super Bowl is just overly optimistic. They aren't even better on paper than quite a few teams in the NFC and definitely haven't shown much on the field.

I wasn't saying that Dallas, Green Bay, or New York got better...I'm saying they ARE better.
You've basically owned yourself in this thread. Every time you come here to post you say "Dallas / Green Bay / New York" - hell, if thats the only hurdles Minnesota has to leap then they're in better shape then I thought.

Basically you're saying they're a top 4 team in the NFC. Top 4 isn't a bad place to be, thats better than 12 other teams. Realistically I would probably say they're bout 6-7 throwing bucs / seahawks and maybe saints a bone.

Btw, no one here is saying they're a lock to go to the superbowl. All anyone has said is that if ball bounces their way, they can win more games this year than they did last year. Its pretty simple buddy~
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Old 06-18-2008, 10:41 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Chris View Post
Do you really think on paper the Packers, Giants, Redskins, Seahawks, and Buccaneers are all overall more talented than the Vikings?

Seriously of all the teams you listed the Cowboys are the only one that is more talented on paper.

Giants
QB:Giants>>Vikings
RB/FB:Giants<<Vikings
WR/TE:Giants>>Vikings
O-line:Giants<Vikings

D-line:Giants=Vikings
Lbs:Giants<Vikings
CBs:Giants<Vikings
S:Giants<Vikings

Giants:2 Vikings:5

Packers
QB:Packers=Vikings
RB/TE:Packers<<Vikings
WR/TE:Packers>>Vikings
O-line:Packers<Vikings

D-line:Packers<Vikings
Lbs:Packers<Vikings(very close)
CBs:Packers>Vikings
S:Packers<Vikings

Packers:2 Vikings:5

Some one is being a bit too liberal with their team on many of these picks. In particular, with the O-line and Lbs. Personally, I wouldn't put the vikings equal at QB with any team in the league, but Packers are obviosuly "unproven" so i'll let ya fool yourself with that for right meow. Not to mention, you forget to factor Major dad's coaching into it. By your logic here, the vikings are CLEARLY better than the defending superbowl champs and the second best team( sure, now Favreless) in the NFC last season because of the addition a couple players?
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Old 06-19-2008, 02:07 AM    (permalink
Crazy_Chris
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How nice of you to take one part of the post out of context...

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Originally Posted by Crazy_Chris
Obviously talent on paper doesn't always translate to success on the field but you are using the complete wrong arguement against the Vikings. They are one of the most talented teams in the NFC on paper. That is the reason why they are getting all this hype.

Edit:Just for the Record I think the Dallas Cowboys, New York Giants, Seattle Seahawks, and the Philadelphia Eagles will all be better teams than the Vikings this year(in the NFC).
I never said it was meant to demonstrate they are a better team it was just meant to demonstrate that on paper they are talented team. Oh how I knew their would be atleast 1 packer fan to protest the post what am I being liberal about? The QB's are a wash at this point becuase Aaron Rodgers hasn't done crap in this league yet, and Jackson himself is still unproven to a point.

I guess when you brought up the LB's your mad because I said the Vikings Corp is better than the packers? right well Greenway/Hawk, Barnett/Henderson are close in how good they are. I don't think that anyone would argue one to be far and away better than the other. The deciding factor is that Ben Leber is better by a pretty decent sized margain than Poppinga/Chillar(whoever starts), and if you disagree with that then it's definatly not worth debating. I don't know whats to argue about the o-line.

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Old 06-19-2008, 02:26 AM    (permalink
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If a coach was allowed to pick one part of his offense to upgrade and one part of his defense to upgrade. It would be D-Line and a running game.

Might sound old school but the philosophy holds up to this day. A strong run game can disguise an average pass game and a great pass-rush can disguise a poor secondary and LB core.

This is why I think the Vikings are going to be firing on all cylinders once AD and that dline are unleashed.
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Old 06-22-2008, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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I think curbing expectation can be a good thing, and conversely not curbing expectation can be a bad thing. Maybe coming out with this instills some confidence in the Vikings, positively reinforcing them towards their goal, however I can't help but be reminded of Nick Saban's 2006 Miami Dolphins as a cautionary tale in this regard. After trading for Daunte Culpepper, there was a poor job of curbing expectation in terms of how the Dolphins were viewed, coming off a 9-7 season in 05 (better than the Vikes did last year). Sports Illustrated famously had them in the Super Bowl in August. Yet once the season started, there was nothing but greater disappointment and frustration in the wake of those unchecked expectations.

Certainly it's in Brad Childress' best interests to try and curb expectations, because the greater perceived disappointment in his third year as the head coach, the greater the likelihood he could be fired.
...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ngs/index.html
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Old 06-22-2008, 09:49 PM    (permalink
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Damn him...
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Old 06-22-2008, 10:14 PM    (permalink
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I honestly think that the vikings can really get hot once in the playoffs, their defense can dominate when on and their offense can make plays and and run the ball. Therey've got a good chance and it wouldn't surprise me to see them beat the giants, cowboys or anyone else in the playoffs.
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Old 06-22-2008, 11:20 PM    (permalink
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Damn him...
took the words out of my mouth. I'll admit that if Tarvaris works out then we could have a shot at making the superbowl but predicting us to win before training camp is a little early.

Let us see where we are after week 2. After a Game in Green Bay then Come home and play Indy.
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Old 06-23-2008, 12:05 AM    (permalink
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took the words out of my mouth. I'll admit that if Tarvaris works out then we could have a shot at making the superbowl but predicting us to win before training camp is a little early.

Let us see where we are after week 2. After a Game in Green Bay then Come home and play Indy.
That's a tough way to start the season. Best case is probably 1-1, and 0-2 is a strong possibility. Luckily they have a soft schedule the next 6 games or so.
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Old 06-23-2008, 01:40 AM    (permalink
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That's a good point raised about the Vikings, moreso on how they come together through the season and then finish going into the playoffs, they focusing on how they start. Especially when they have a young quarterback like T-Jack, in an offense that's young at the skill positions and still learning to play together (including new acquisition Bernard Berrian). Plus fellow FA acquisition Madieu Williams has to get comfortable in the defense - which doesn't happen overnight - so that he can react and attack without hardly thinking.

Look no farther than the Giants last season. They didn't started off very well, as owners of an 0-2 record thanks mainly to a mess of a defense, but it turned at halftime in Week 3 at Washington. And they didn't get into the playoffs until a few weeks remaining in the season, but they got hot at the right time to the result of the championship.

So even if the Vikings don't start the season off well, that doesn't necessarily mean "they're not ready" and what have you. It actually might relieve some of the pressure and get them back in more of an underdog role, I think.
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Old 06-23-2008, 11:57 AM    (permalink
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They need to make the playoffs first. Allen should be more concerned about that, then making false promises about winning the super bowl. They have the defence and they have the running game but they have no quaterback and IMO Jackson is never going to good and the Vikes have no passing game so if a team can shut down their run they are done. You have to have balance to make it to the playoffs and they don't. So them predicting that they are going to win it all is a sad attempt at getting their fans (who are used to losing) excited about there team this year
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