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Old 03-01-2007, 07:27 PM    (permalink
M.O.T.H.
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
Tell that to Wade Phillips who has been interviewing the likes of Dan Bazuin, Charles Johnson and Brian Robison... Notice a trend? Make sense now?
None of those guys is a 1st rounder. Those are depths guys with the ability to play both positions.
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Old 03-01-2007, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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None of those guys is a 1st rounder. Those are depths guys with the ability to play both positions.
Dunno if you haven't heard of Charles Johnson before, but he is widely considered a first round player. Scott has him going to Denver at pick 21. Kiper has him at 19 on his newly released Big Board... Check out all the experts... He is a top prospect.
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Old 03-01-2007, 07:48 PM    (permalink
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Dunno if you haven't heard of Charles Johnson before, but he is widely considered a first round player. Scott has him going to Denver at pick 21. Kiper has him at 19 on his newly released Big Board... Check out all the experts... He is a top prospect.
There isnt a player in this draft I havent heard about. To be honest I didnt see him on your list. He is a DE through and through and I see no reason in even considering him. We already have three potentially great DEs.
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Old 03-01-2007, 07:54 PM    (permalink
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There isnt a player in this draft I havent heard about. To be honest I didnt see him on your list. He is a DE through and through and I see no reason in even considering him. We already have three potentially great DEs.
He wouldn't be a DE in our system. He would be an OLB. All of those players are big around the 270 pound range. Cowboys have already talked to him about playing the position. He also looked good at the Combine in his LB drills.
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Old 03-01-2007, 08:02 PM    (permalink
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He wouldn't be a DE in our system. He would be an OLB. All of those players are big around the 270 pound range. Cowboys have already talked to him about playing the position. He also looked good at the Combine in his LB drills.
He did have a promising combine but, I'm still not sold on him as a 3-4 OLB. I really cant see us taking another hybrid type player in the first. He ran in the 4.8 range I believe...correct? I still like him better as a 4-3 End.
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Old 03-01-2007, 08:14 PM    (permalink
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He did have a promising combine but, I'm still not sold on him as a 3-4 OLB. I really cant see us taking another hybrid type player in the first. He ran in the 4.8 range I believe...correct? I still like him better as a 4-3 End.
You're straying from the point. The point being that Wade Phillips is putting a premium on OLB.
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Old 03-01-2007, 08:27 PM    (permalink
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You're straying from the point. The point being that Wade Phillips is putting a premium on OLB.
Straying from the point... non-intentional.

Anway... I dont really understand why. We have loads of cash invested in our two young MLBs. I understand we need to improve the pass-rush but, I dont see any reason to give up on Carp. Obviously, drafting a high round LB/DE means Carp is more likely than not moving inside, where he will be stuck. I can see us taking one of these hybrid guys later in the draft like a Robinson or a Bazuin (two of my favs) to say, spell Carp but, as for a first round hybrid... it would baffle me. Unless of course, we plan on releasing Akin or Bradie but, i really do not see that happening, at all. Things are going to get pretty interesting.
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Old 03-01-2007, 08:29 PM    (permalink
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Straying from the point... non-intentional.

Anway... I dont really understand why. We have loads of cash invested in our two young MLBs. I understand we need to improve the pass-rush but, I dont see any reason to give up on Carp. Obviously, drafting a high round LB/DE means Carp is more likely than not moving inside, where he will be stuck. I can see us taking one of these hybrid guys later in the draft like a Robinson or a Bazuin (two of my favs) to say, spell Carp but, as for a first round hybrid... it would baffle me. Unless of course, we plan on releasing Akin or Bradie but, i really do not see that happening, at all. Things are going to get pretty interesting.
When did Carp move to SOLB?
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Old 03-01-2007, 08:37 PM    (permalink
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When did Carp move to SOLB?
By seasons end Carp was playing just about every LB position and he was playing well. Ware was switching between both OLB positions when Ellis went down and Carp was frequently getting time opposite him.
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Old 03-01-2007, 08:47 PM    (permalink
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By seasons end Carp was playing just about every LB position and he was playing well. Ware was switching between both OLB positions when Ellis went down and Carp was frequently getting time opposite him.
If he was playing everywhere, then he's not really "moving" to ILB. Right?

If he was playing opposite of Ware... Then how come we stunk it up after Ellis went down? He obviously wasn't playing that good. Our defense lost a lot when Ellis went down...especially in our pass rush. Many experts would agree.
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Old 03-01-2007, 09:03 PM    (permalink
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If he was playing everywhere, then he's not really "moving" to ILB. Right?

If he was playing opposite of Ware... Then how come we stunk it up after Ellis went down? He obviously wasn't playing that good. Our defense lost a lot when Ellis went down...especially in our pass rush. Many experts would agree.
He wasnt playing that well at all. The last few games of the season he started to show some flashes and of course he had that "break out" game against the Hawks. We're not guranteed anything with Carp, he hasnt shown us enough yet but, he has only played in 13 games with the majority of his PT coming on Special Teams, to draft another high round hybrid would just be a mistake IMO....right now. Wade should at least give it a year in his defense to see what kind of a player Bobby actually is. As of right Bobby doesnt even have a definite position, BP moved him inside intially and when Ellis got hurt, he went back to playing OLB. All I know is that we can not... can not have our expensive 1st round LB playing behind two young ILBs. He's gotta play and that is probably going to come as a SOLB. Now, i agree we must improve our pass rush but, I think we have the players in house. Ratliff, Hatcher, and Coleman were all solid nickel pass rushers. Of course we have Canty and Spears, both of which are very talented but, that havent put it together. Most scouts had Spears as a 10+ sack guy by year 3. Who knows what Wade's aggresive pass rush friendly D could do for these guys. As for the first round... I just think safety seems like a much more pressing need and if we lose Crayton, WR becomes a bit of need as well. It's not up to me but, if it was, I wouldnt touch the LB position until the 3rd round, just for some depth.
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Old 03-01-2007, 10:04 PM    (permalink
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If it were up to me I wouldn't draft a LB until after the 1st round. The only LB I would consider drafting is Patrick Willis. That is just an SEC bias I have based on watching Willis play. I think he has the skills to be another very high impact ILB.

My ideal draft (FA not withstanding) is CB then WR then OL on the first day.

BTW Jeff Ireland mentioned the two positions of the most depth this year in the draft are WR and OL. That's always good news.
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Old 03-02-2007, 08:19 AM    (permalink
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Here's my point of view...

In regards to your first point, I can accept the rationale there. I would also include RB as a high impact position with high costs tied to the position. But that's besides the point. I agree with you about a cornerback's impact and expense. What I want to point out is that we are already at that point. We already have invested a lot of money into the position with Henry. He's got the big contract. We already have spent big time first round pick money on Newman and he's due for another big extention after this season. We're at the point where we are in the prime of receiving a return on our investment. If we didn't have a big FA signing (Henry) or a first round pick investment (Newman), then yeah, I could see us using our first pick on a CB. But by selecting another first round pick on CB, when we have already invested a lot, we are divying up more resources than I think we need to or can afford to. It's too big of a chunk out of the pie in this salary cap age.

You second point is similar to your first point in regards to expense and commanding high prices... but in regards to limiting those positions as being first round draft worthy because of impact, I would have to slightly disagree once again. Yes, they are worthy, but no, it should not be limited to them. I think that an impact player can come from any position. It really depends on the skill level of the player and his fit in the team's scheme and his role/playing time. ...and Safety can certainly fit in that mix of being first round worthy. Look at Bob Sanders impact with the Colts... Troy Polamalu - Steelers, Rodney Harrison -Pats, John Lynch - Tampa, Ed Reed - Baltimore... all of whom were huge impacts on their SB winning teams and still are for the most part... In the past teams were able to find good safeties in the second round and beyond, but today's NFL is different and so must our mindset on the position change as well. It can't be so cookie cutter that we just say, here are the positions that deserve a first round pick. If you got a chance to get a big time playmaker, you take him because he will provide an impact.

As to your third point, I get that back up corners get a decent amount of playing time, but mostly every back up has a role on special teams or they simply don't suit up. Do they really get more playing time than say a guy in a RB by committee? more than a #3 WR? more than along the DL? LB? I really think that the positions that don't get a lot of rotation during the games are QB and OL... other than that, guys are running in and out of games pretty frequently. ...and one thing I'd have to say is that in the last few years where we've had Jacquez Reeves and Nate Jones sitting on the sidelines, they really haven't gotten that much playing time unless Henry was injured. Glenn got a lot of PT at Nickel Back... but we shouldn't be spending our first round pick on a Nickel Back.

#4, I agree you can't teach speed, but look at the guys who are projected in Round 3 or later... Johnathan Wade (4.36), Fred Bennett (4.46), Tarrell Brown (4.45), David Irons (4.44), DeAndre Jackson (4.49), CJ Gattis (4.45)... Even Round 2 guys like McCauley, Josh Wilson, Eric Wright ran just as fast if not faster than the Round 1 projected prospects.... You just don't have to draft a corner in Round 1 to make sure you get a fast guy.

5th... well... can't injuries occur at any position? It's good to have depth everywhere. I'm all for adding depth to corner... but not with a first round pick investment.

So that said, I'm still not convinced that we have to go corner with our first pick.
Back to the CB discussion, I understand the sentiment that at some point we will need a top of the line CB to replace Henry and Glenn, but it does not make sense to me to take that player in the first round of this year's draft. Any corner we take would most likely sit behind Henry and Glenn. One of the main goals of the first round of any draft is to take a player who can be an impact player right away...a CB would not. I believe that there are a lot of guys in the middle rounds who could easily be developed into serviceable, if not very good nickel corners or even starters, including the guys listed above.
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Old 03-02-2007, 08:20 AM    (permalink
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He did have a promising combine but, I'm still not sold on him as a 3-4 OLB. I really cant see us taking another hybrid type player in the first. He ran in the 4.8 range I believe...correct? I still like him better as a 4-3 End.
His teammate Quentin Moses ran a 4.8...I believe Johnson ran higher, but IMO, still not good enough to really be considered as a 3-4 OLB.
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