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Old 06-17-2008, 02:53 PM    (permalink
Burns336
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Originally Posted by PACKmanN View Post
1 more then what the Cowboys backs have done. I agree with what the 9er fan said, Gore has been struck with injuries this year, but still manged 1000 yards behind that o-line and offense.
Actually Barber was in the pro bowl last year. Nice try though...

And by me saying "Pro Bowl Season" -- I'm referring to a guy playing at a Top 3 level within his conference. Getting voted in doesn't matter, but how you play does. Obviously I'm not going to judge someone based off of whether or not they were voted in.

Maybe it can be attributed to his crappy offense, but right now I just wouldn't have him as high as some other people. I don't fully trust him either. Nagging injuries last year, a long history of knee problems, and the short lifespan of RB's in the NFL are all things that I would be afraid of in terms of sustained performance and longevity.

He's just another player that I have in my "good, but overrated to God-mode by some" pile.

Edit -- PacKMan - You give packer fans a bad name. What are you doing? Following me around, trying to throw shots at the cowboys? You can't even do that right... haha

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Old 06-17-2008, 02:56 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Duster View Post
No, I want to tell you Jackson is better.
You need to watch more Gore...

Gore has moved piles and I mean PILES of defenders...check some highlights of him moving 6 Seahawks with no help.

Gore is a terror in the open field, if he doesn't juke you out of your cleats he will just run you over.

Gore is has amazing balance and is very tough to knock off his feet which helps him to break alot of tackle, I don't see Jackson being better in these categories.
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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You need to watch more Gore...

Gore has moved piles and I mean PILES of defenders...check some highlights of him moving 6 Seahawks with no help.

Gore is a terror in the open field, if he doesn't juke you out of your cleats he will just run you over.

Gore is has amazing balance and is very tough to knock off his feet which helps him to break alot of tackle, I don't see Jackson being better in these categories.
I have watched both extensively. Gore is a tougher pound-for-pound runner but Jackson is just so big. There's definitely no back in the league that defenders hate seeing squaring their shoulders to them than Jackson. He's bigger than most LBs and he uses his size and power extremely well. Gore is great also but he just doesn't have the sheer size and power of Jackson.
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Old 06-17-2008, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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I have watched both extensively. Gore is a tougher pound-for-pound runner but Jackson is just so big. There's definitely no back in the league that defenders hate seeing squaring their shoulders to them than Jackson. He's bigger than most LBs and he uses his size and power extremely well. Gore is great also but he just doesn't have the sheer size and power of Jackson.
Gore doesn't have the size and power of Jackson. And to disagree with the previous poster, he actually has great balance for a back that big.

But Gore is probably one of the more explosive backs in the league when healthy. He doesn't have the speed of some others.

Just consider this, in 2006 Frank Gore had 15 runs over 20 yards. Steven Jackson, Clinton Portis, Brian Westbrook, Adrian Peterson, and LT have not ever had that many runs over 20 yards in a season. Only Larry Johnson matched that number in 2005 which was his career year.

In 2006 he also had 6 runs over 40 yards. Clinton Portis matched that once and no other top back put up 6 or more runs of over 40 yards.

I don't know what else to say to people who thinks that he doesn't belong in the top five debate.
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Old 06-17-2008, 05:36 PM    (permalink
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He's just another player that I have in my "good, but overrated to God-mode by some" pile.
If he was in God-mode, wouldn't people be saying that he was the best? No one is saying that. Thats a title for AD.
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Old 06-17-2008, 05:42 PM    (permalink
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If he was in God-mode, wouldn't people be saying that he was the best? No one is saying that. Thats a title for AD.
True, but when people are pushing for someone to be considered into the top 5 debates they typically overrate people with God-mode.

For arguments sake, I still have LT #1 and probably Westbrook #2...

AD was very impressive and did things that I will probably never see again in my life (Slashing through the chargers and bears like a hot knife through butter) but putting up 300 yards 1 week and 3 the next isn't going to help his team like he needs to. I'd like to see a full season of AD, with consistency, and NO INJURIES before I put him above LT and Westbrook. Both of them have been consistently great and have played at a high level for many years.

Props on the stats for gore though, I knew he had a great 06, but didn't realize how many breakaway runs the guy had.
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Old 06-17-2008, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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I am not gonna reply to any one person but to everyone saying they would take people like Marshawn Lynch and MB3 over Gore,

And to the person that said Gore only had one good season, as well. In 2006 he was 4th in the NFL in yards from scrimmage and last season he was 6th with a bad offensive coordinator, bad offensive line, playing injured, and teams stacking the box to stop him every play. If he was running behind say the Vikings' or Cowboys offensive lines he could put up 2000+ yards
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Old 06-18-2008, 03:27 AM    (permalink
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I just love you guys who disrespect Gore. Theres 8 stacked in the box on every play for 1 reason - he is lethal when unleashed. He wont do the sissy run round you routine he'll flat run over you. Make my words some half decent play at QB and WR / TE and you'll see the best of Frank
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Old 06-18-2008, 03:54 AM    (permalink
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I just love you guys who disrespect Gore. Theres 8 stacked in the box on every play for 1 reason - he is lethal when unleashed. He wont do the sissy run round you routine he'll flat run over you. Make my words some half decent play at QB and WR / TE and you'll see the best of Frank
I agree, but I don't agree with the person who said he would have 2000 yards. Gore has put up good numbers but was still limited due to the bad offense. Nothing when right for that offense, but you could always rely on Gore to help the offense make a push.
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Old 06-18-2008, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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I just love you guys who disrespect Gore. Theres 8 stacked in the box on every play for 1 reason - he is lethal when unleashed. He wont do the sissy run round you routine he'll flat run over you. Make my words some half decent play at QB and WR / TE and you'll see the best of Frank
I just love you guys who disrespect Lynch. Theres 8 stacked in the box on every play for 1 reason - he is lethal when unleashed. He wont do the sissy run round you routine he'll flat run over you. Make my words some half decent play at QB and WR / TE and you'll see the best of Marshawn
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Old 06-18-2008, 10:29 AM    (permalink
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Id actually take Trent Edwards, the Bufallo Line and Lee Evans over Alex Smith, 49ers Line and Arnaz battle
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Old 06-18-2008, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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Id actually take Trent Edwards, the Bufallo Line and Lee Evans over Alex Smith, 49ers Line and Arnaz battle
Me to but that's because the bills crew had a good year, compared to previous years. A year ago most people would've taken Smith, the 9ers line and battle/VD.
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Old 06-18-2008, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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The homerism is out of control in this thread, everybody thinks their RB is a little better then where they are ranked...I do know this though, CBS Sports.com and PFW came out with their own rankings list, and it was gathered from the help of coaches, scouts and execs, their top 10 looked like this, with grading scales out of 5:



1. LT 4.7
2. Brian Westbrook 4.35
3. Adrian Peterson 4.3
4. Steven Jackson 4.25
5. Larry Johnson 4.0
6. Marion Barber 4.0
7. Joseph Addaii 4.0
8. Willie Parker 3.85
9. Fred Taylor 3.85
10. Willis McGahee 3.75


So that would have Barber even higher on this list since some people have a problem with him where he is on this list, and that list has no reason to be biased what so ever...Gore came in at 11 on this list at 3.75 also, just so people can see some other perspective instead of their own homerific views...This list was compiled with the help of people in the NFL right now, not fans of guys they watched play every sunday and think they are the best thing ever since they only watch that one person play...This isn't "fact" either, but its more credible then what some fans say about their own players in defense.
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Old 06-18-2008, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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I think Marshawn Lynch is the 6th best back in the league, although I understand having played just one season in buffalo that few have actually gotten to watch him play and know how good he is. It's cool, he'll be hugely under-rated, until he leads the bills to the playoffs.
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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It really is hard to compare backs. Not all the systems are the same. Different o-linemen, different plays drawn up, and then comes factoring in each RB within that system.
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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It really is hard to compare backs. Not all the systems are the same. Different o-linemen, different plays drawn up, and then comes factoring in each RB within that system.
There's absolutely no objective way to compare them, but based on preferences to certain styles we can create personal ratings.
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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Brian Leonard+ SJax= win. what can't you people understand about that? Greatest player of all time, and sweet RB who's nickname is SJax...
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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Greatest player of all time, and sweet RB who's nickname is SJax...
The Mighty Midget only trains with jax,
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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There's absolutely no objective way to compare them, but based on preferences to certain styles we can create personal ratings.
Yeah, I understand that part. But I look at it as a coach, and think so many things are involved in the running game that it goes way beyond stats. It's easy to look at stats and say this back is the best, then him, then him, and him.

But offensive line comes into play. Not all teams have equal talent in o-lines. Some teams have better pass blocking o-linemen than run blocking. Vice Versa is true as well. Then factor in OC. How is he drawing the plays up? What's the system for that team? Is the RB utilized right for that particular system?

I am just commenting out loud I guess, that it certainly is tricky to rank players. That's why I never rank or do that. Plus I don't watch the other backs like I would the giants, so it would make no sense rating backs unless I watched all 16 games for all 32 teams..
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Old 06-18-2008, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I understand that part. But I look at it as a coach, and think so many things are involved in the running game that it goes way beyond stats. It's easy to look at stats and say this back is the best, then him, then him, and him.

But offensive line comes into play. Not all teams have equal talent in o-lines. Some teams have better pass blocking o-linemen than run blocking. Vice Versa is true as well. Then factor in OC. How is he drawing the plays up? What's the system for that team? Is the RB utilized right for that particular system?

I am just commenting out loud I guess, that it certainly is tricky to rank players. That's why I never rank or do that. Plus I don't watch the other backs like I would the giants, so it would make no sense rating backs unless I watched all 16 games for all 32 teams..
All valid points, but I think a knowledgeable NFL fan can subjectively rank the players based on what they've shown in the situation they're in and your personal preference on style of play you want from the position.
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Old 06-18-2008, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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Maybe Steven Jackson??

Jackson is head and heels better than Frank Gore, and it's not even close
Are you serious? Steven Jackson has been surrounded with skill position players like Bruce, Holt, and Bulger ever since he was a rookie. Frank Gore has not. There have always been eight guys in the box whenever Frank Gore has taken the field almost all the time.
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Old 06-18-2008, 02:26 PM    (permalink
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Actually Barber was in the pro bowl last year. Nice try though...

And by me saying "Pro Bowl Season" -- I'm referring to a guy playing at a Top 3 level within his conference. Getting voted in doesn't matter, but how you play does. Obviously I'm not going to judge someone based off of whether or not they were voted in.

Maybe it can be attributed to his crappy offense, but right now I just wouldn't have him as high as some other people. I don't fully trust him either. Nagging injuries last year, a long history of knee problems, and the short lifespan of RB's in the NFL are all things that I would be afraid of in terms of sustained performance and longevity.

He's just another player that I have in my "good, but overrated to God-mode by some" pile.

Edit -- PacKMan - You give packer fans a bad name. What are you doing? Following me around, trying to throw shots at the cowboys? You can't even do that right... haha
Nagging injuries? Frank Gore has started every single game except one since he became the starter. And his "knee" problems that were an issue for him in college haven't been a bother every since he came into the NFL.
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Old 06-18-2008, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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Nagging injuries? Frank Gore has started every single game except one since he became the starter. And his "knee" problems that were an issue for him in college haven't been a bother every since he came into the NFL.
I know he has only missed minimal time, but hasn't he just been playing through nagging injuries? I thought I remembered that and I'm pretty sure a 9er fan had posted earlier that he had lingering injuries but just played through them..

Either way, whether it be the system, surrounding talent, or just him -- I don't think Gore is as good as some people are making him out to be.
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Old 06-18-2008, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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YAYareaRB is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.YAYareaRB is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.YAYareaRB is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.YAYareaRB is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.YAYareaRB is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.YAYareaRB is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.YAYareaRB is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.YAYareaRB is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.YAYareaRB is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.YAYareaRB is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.YAYareaRB is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Not too mention all these other RBs have had pro bowl caliber O-linemen to play with. Larry Allen is the only one that came close to being selected I bet. Gore is better than most are giving him credit for. Put Barber, Portis, even AP behind Jonas Jennings and company and you'll see why 49er fans praise Gore so much. Not too mention a non exsistent passing game and a stupid ass Offensive coordinator.
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Old 06-18-2008, 03:22 PM    (permalink
Ness
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Originally Posted by Burns336 View Post
I know he has only missed minimal time, but hasn't he just been playing through nagging injuries? I thought I remembered that and I'm pretty sure a 9er fan had posted earlier that he had lingering injuries but just played through them..

Either way, whether it be the system, surrounding talent, or just him -- I don't think Gore is as good as some people are making him out to be.
So despite all the facts that he hasn't missed game time, his knee injuries that dropped him down on draft charts haven't been an issue, he plays behind a horrible offensive line, he faces eight guys in the box almost all the time, and he has no help at the skill positions yet still makes it happen, you're just going to dismiss him? Sounds like a personal issue to me.
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