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Old 07-16-2008, 11:35 PM    (permalink
Paranoidmoonduck
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This is horribly stupid. Horribly.

There's a difference between punishing people for egregious misbehavior and making huge leaps in association to prevent that anyone ever thinks anything bad about the NFL.
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Old 07-17-2008, 12:17 AM    (permalink
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I think it's stupid. The end.
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Old 07-17-2008, 07:57 AM    (permalink
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The guy they hire for this is probably going to get grossly overpaid. So, good for him for making a living off others stupidity.
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Old 07-17-2008, 09:14 AM    (permalink
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The guy they hire for this is probably going to get grossly overpaid. So, good for him for making a living off others stupidity.
I bet the guy they hire is the leader of a gang...just throwing that one out there.

It's happened before, similar situation, just different scenario.
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Old 07-17-2008, 06:40 PM    (permalink
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Yeah you're probably right, he's either an ex cop who lost his job, or he's a former gang member,
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Old 07-17-2008, 07:01 PM    (permalink
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Larry Johnson stole his sign from Jay-Z who stole it from Diamond Dallas Page a pretty famous pro wrestler. It's what's known as gimmick infringement in the wrestling business and DDP should get paid every time someone else does it lol. Seriously it's a blatant rip off on Jay-Z's part as DDP was doing that diamond cutter sign several years before Jay. And it's obviously not a gang sign lol.
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Old 07-19-2008, 06:05 AM    (permalink
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No Fun League.

They're just making hand signals to celebrate their touchdowns. This is as ridiculous as NBA forcing players to wear suits.

It would be unfair to punish those using hand signals, and not punish Shawn Merriman for that over the top BS he pulls whenever he gets a sack.
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Old 07-20-2008, 11:06 AM    (permalink
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Lynch's so-called gang sign is the symbol for his charity/football clinic called "Family First".........
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Old 07-20-2008, 11:18 AM    (permalink
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No Fun League.

They're just making hand signals to celebrate their touchdowns. This is as ridiculous as NBA forcing players to wear suits.

It would be unfair to punish those using hand signals, and not punish Shawn Merriman for that over the top BS he pulls whenever he gets a sack.
Wow, talk about a serious overreaction...

and there is nothing wrong with the NBA's dress code. They want the people who represent the league look professional.
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Old 07-20-2008, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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Larry Johnson stole his sign from Jay-Z who stole it from Diamond Dallas Page a pretty famous pro wrestler. It's what's known as gimmick infringement in the wrestling business and DDP should get paid every time someone else does it lol. Seriously it's a blatant rip off on Jay-Z's part as DDP was doing that diamond cutter sign several years before Jay. And it's obviously not a gang sign lol.
DDP had actually filed a lawsuit against Jay-Z, if i'm not mistaken..

Edit - Yeah, just for the hell of it i checked Wikipedia and he had filed a lawsuit. Apparently he copyrighted the use of the sign in 1996.. Larry Johnson better watch out, or DDP will come back for some of his bonus money.. Haha.

http://www.wrestleview.com/news2006/1185398664.shtml
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Old 07-21-2008, 12:21 AM    (permalink
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According to the paper, an NHL spokesman said the league has a policy against inappropriate gestures but has never employed a gang expert.

The NHL should get on that, it looks like a place that is rife with gang activity.
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Old 07-21-2008, 12:43 AM    (permalink
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No Fun League.

They're just making hand signals to celebrate their touchdowns. This is as ridiculous as NBA forcing players to wear suits.

It would be unfair to punish those using hand signals, and not punish Shawn Merriman for that over the top BS he pulls whenever he gets a sack.
1. You are aware they aren't punishing players for making hand signals right? It's just to keep an eye out to see if anyone is making gang signs and stopping those in particular. As far as I'm concerned it's a great idea. I won't pretend like I know gang signs, but I think it's a good thing to keep all gang related activity down.

2. NBA dress code was a great idea.
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Old 07-21-2008, 06:29 PM    (permalink
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1. You are aware they aren't punishing players for making hand signals right? It's just to keep an eye out to see if anyone is making gang signs and stopping those in particular. As far as I'm concerned it's a great idea. I won't pretend like I know gang signs, but I think it's a good thing to keep all gang related activity down.

2. NBA dress code was a great idea.
Did you honestly care about the players using potentially gang-related signs before the NFL decided to take action? Did you honestly care about what NBA players were wearing before commissioner stern decided to fine players for not wearing the proper attire(in addition to fining players for making accusations towards cheating refs)?

Seriously, It's the NBA. Your job is to run around, bounce and throw a ball in brightly colored(sometimes shiny) clothing for a couple of hours every other day for 7 months. Who cares what they wear twenty minutes before they hit the court?
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Old 07-21-2008, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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Did you honestly care about the players using potentially gang-related signs before the NFL decided to take action? Did you honestly care about what NBA players were wearing before commissioner stern decided to fine players for not wearing the proper attire(in addition to fining players for making accusations towards cheating refs)?

Seriously, It's the NBA. Your job is to run around, bounce and throw a ball in brightly colored(sometimes shiny) clothing for a couple of hours every other day for 7 months. Who cares what they wear twenty minutes before they hit the court?

Agreed if I was getting paid that sort of money, to play a game that I love not to mention the endless stream of endorsements and loose women I'd be getting I'd wear a freakin tutu to a game if they told me to.
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Old 07-21-2008, 07:45 PM    (permalink
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Did you honestly care about the players using potentially gang-related signs before the NFL decided to take action? Did you honestly care about what NBA players were wearing before commissioner stern decided to fine players for not wearing the proper attire(in addition to fining players for making accusations towards cheating refs)?

Seriously, It's the NBA. Your job is to run around, bounce and throw a ball in brightly colored(sometimes shiny) clothing for a couple of hours every other day for 7 months. Who cares what they wear twenty minutes before they hit the court?
Wow, what a dumb argument. So because you didn't care about a certain topic before, you shouldn't care about it now that there has been light shed on it?

No one realized how many gang signs have been thrown before our very eyes and went unnoticed. Why do you think clubs and bars have dress codes? To prevent people from fighting and ruining their business by some stupid thing like what colors they're wearing or what signs they're throwing. What if somebody got shot because they threw a blood or crip sign? They're already assuming that's what happened with Darrent Williams, so why let it go on even more? It's a great idea to have. Sure, it might seem over the top, and the guy doing the screening of tapes and stuff might be some over-paid schmuck, but the league is taking the necessary precautions to deal with a situation like that. They would have looked a lot stupider had something happened like a brawl or a shoot out over a gang signal.

The fining of players in the NBA is warranted. You know the rules, if you break the rules, you have to pay. It's not that hard a concept to grasp. If you start letting players babble on about refs after games, you're gonna have a league full of players disrespecting the refs on the court, and hell will break loose. Constant bickering and arguing, expletive ridden interviews post-game, the whole shebang.

Yes, it's the NBA, and while it's cute to assume that all they do is bounce the ball around and dunk, it's an idiotic argument to try to make in a serious manner. I'll use your argument against you, if you'd prefer. If you were getting paid millions on millions to bounce around a basketball in a shiny uniform, do you think you'd give a crap if they made you wear a suit pre-game? Hell No.
I'd juggle oranges and wear a red nose if you asked me to.

These guys aren't just representing their team, but the league as well. Do you think the owners want their players to portray their team as a bunch of ignorant hoodlums? Would you want that for your business??

Do you think Lebron James has a problem wearing a suit? Of course not, cause he has smart people around him. Everything he does is publicity. He's a businessman at the end of the day, and he for one, wants to look like one.
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Old 07-21-2008, 08:57 PM    (permalink
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No one realized how many gang signs have been thrown before our very eyes and went unnoticed. Why do you think clubs and bars have dress codes? To prevent people from fighting and ruining their business by some stupid thing like what colors they're wearing or what signs they're throwing. What if somebody got shot because they threw a blood or crip sign? They're already assuming that's what happened with Darrent Williams, so why let it go on even more? It's a great idea to have. Sure, it might seem over the top, and the guy doing the screening of tapes and stuff might be some over-paid schmuck, but the league is taking the necessary precautions to deal with a situation like that. They would have looked a lot stupider had something happened like a brawl or a shoot out over a gang signal.
Look, I support the theory behind Goodell's reformation of the NFL. More significant punishments for players convicted of crimes off the field is a great idea. Make it clear that their excessive livelihood is threatened when they perform criminal acts. Keep closer tabs on how far some teams stretch the rules. Take away those teams' ability to add young talent by removing draft picks. All great ideas.

We need to face the fact that players come from rough backgrounds. Some of them undoubtedly have some gang affiliation. However, so long as gang acts stay off the field, I see nothing wrong with gang signs. It's a way of positioning your hands for crying out loud. More than that, it gives the NFL total discretion in determining which uses of a players hand in celebration are correct or not. That just sounds wrong. I sort of understood why the NFL put a clamp on prop celebrations, but this is just silly.

The NFL wants to put an image out there. But we all know that image is false. So long as a player isn't upsetting the balance of play or becoming a distraction, who really cares? And moreover, why should the NFL reserve to right to decide? Like I said, I agree with most of the decisions the NFL front office has made since the new commissioner came in, but in certain instances I see them seizing more power than they should.
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Old 07-21-2008, 09:23 PM    (permalink
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Look, I support the theory behind Goodell's reformation of the NFL. More significant punishments for players convicted of crimes off the field is a great idea. Make it clear that their excessive livelihood is threatened when they perform criminal acts. Keep closer tabs on how far some teams stretch the rules. Take away those teams' ability to add young talent by removing draft picks. All great ideas.

We need to face the fact that players come from rough backgrounds. Some of them undoubtedly have some gang affiliation. However, so long as gang acts stay off the field, I see nothing wrong with gang signs. It's a way of positioning your hands for crying out loud. More than that, it gives the NFL total discretion in determining which uses of a players hand in celebration are correct or not. That just sounds wrong. I sort of understood why the NFL put a clamp on prop celebrations, but this is just silly.

The NFL wants to put an image out there. But we all know that image is false. So long as a player isn't upsetting the balance of play or becoming a distraction, who really cares? And moreover, why should the NFL reserve to right to decide? Like I said, I agree with most of the decisions the NFL front office has made since the new commissioner came in, but in certain instances I see them seizing more power than they should.
Wait, so you don't have a problem with gang acts continuing as long as they're off the field? I think the whole idea is to eliminate as much gang activity in general. I applaud Goodell for trying to do his part. Somebody already brought up Darrent Williams' death which was likely gang related, so it is affecting the NFL. Sure, it's not guaranteed that stopping gang signs will reduce gang violence, but it can't hurt.
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Old 07-21-2008, 11:27 PM    (permalink
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Wait, so you don't have a problem with gang acts continuing as long as they're off the field? I think the whole idea is to eliminate as much gang activity in general. I applaud Goodell for trying to do his part. Somebody already brought up Darrent Williams' death which was likely gang related, so it is affecting the NFL. Sure, it's not guaranteed that stopping gang signs will reduce gang violence, but it can't hurt.
That's exactly the problem right there. The NFL is taking liberties with its rights over how much a player can express himself on the field because it might perhaps help something unrelated...maybe.

I have a problem with all sort of violence, but I do have a problem with the people in the NFL front office acting like they have any impact over it. This is a ham-fisted PR stunt to portray the NFL as something it's not, and moreover it gives the NFL more discrepancy and power than it should rightly have. And that's what I have a problem with.
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Old 07-22-2008, 03:39 AM    (permalink
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Look, I support the theory behind Goodell's reformation of the NFL. More significant punishments for players convicted of crimes off the field is a great idea. Make it clear that their excessive livelihood is threatened when they perform criminal acts. Keep closer tabs on how far some teams stretch the rules. Take away those teams' ability to add young talent by removing draft picks. All great ideas.

We need to face the fact that players come from rough backgrounds. Some of them undoubtedly have some gang affiliation. However, so long as gang acts stay off the field, I see nothing wrong with gang signs. It's a way of positioning your hands for crying out loud. More than that, it gives the NFL total discretion in determining which uses of a players hand in celebration are correct or not. That just sounds wrong. I sort of understood why the NFL put a clamp on prop celebrations, but this is just silly.

The NFL wants to put an image out there. But we all know that image is false. So long as a player isn't upsetting the balance of play or becoming a distraction, who really cares? And moreover, why should the NFL reserve to right to decide? Like I said, I agree with most of the decisions the NFL front office has made since the new commissioner came in, but in certain instances I see them seizing more power than they should.
Well you see, here is where you're tangling yourself in your own web. You're saying that you're fine with ridding the league of gang acts, but gang signs are okay.

Isn't the throwing of a gang sign, a gang affiliated act?

I don't know if you've ever been around a rough neighborhood.. But i've had the displeasure of doing so, and doing anything as little as throwing your hands in a certain way, will absolutely piss off rival gangs. Why would the league condone, or at least look the other way, when people are throwing gang signs at tv cameras, then they get their car broken into or damaged?

If they're gonna take the necessary precautions to avoid anything gang related, they BETTER make sure no one is representing gangs on the field of play. At the end of the day, you decide how you lead your life out of the field, but the NFL will be damned if they let you tarnish their reputation in the process. And ultimately, i would do the exact same thing to protect my business.

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That's exactly the problem right there. The NFL is taking liberties with its rights over how much a player can express himself on the field because it might perhaps help something unrelated...maybe.

I have a problem with all sort of violence, but I do have a problem with the people in the NFL front office acting like they have any impact over it. This is a ham-fisted PR stunt to portray the NFL as something it's not, and moreover it gives the NFL more discrepancy and power than it should rightly have. And that's what I have a problem with.
Well that's why they hired someone that knows his stuff, to determine what is gang related or not. This isn't Joe Citizen looking at tapes.

I don't think anyone believes the NFL feels like they can overall impact the amount of violence their players are involved in. It wouldn't be a very realistic assumption, but i do understand why they would do this. You say it's a PR stunt, and maybe it is, but you have to respect the fact that they wanna clean up the reputation and portrayal of their league. Every sane business man or woman would do something like this as well.
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Old 07-22-2008, 04:18 AM    (permalink
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Well you see, here is where you're tangling yourself in your own web. You're saying that you're fine with ridding the league of gang acts, but gang signs are okay.

Isn't the throwing of a gang sign, a gang affiliated act?

I don't know if you've ever been around a rough neighborhood.. But i've had the displeasure of doing so, and doing anything as little as throwing your hands in a certain way, will absolutely piss off rival gangs. Why would the league condone, or at least look the other way, when people are throwing gang signs at tv cameras, then they get their car broken into or damaged?

If they're gonna take the necessary precautions to avoid anything gang related, they BETTER make sure no one is representing gangs on the field of play. At the end of the day, you decide how you lead your life out of the field, but the NFL will be damned if they let you tarnish their reputation in the process. And ultimately, i would do the exact same thing to protect my business.



Well that's why they hired someone that knows his stuff, to determine what is gang related or not. This isn't Joe Citizen looking at tapes.

I don't think anyone believes the NFL feels like they can overall impact the amount of violence their players are involved in. It wouldn't be a very realistic assumption, but i do understand why they would do this. You say it's a PR stunt, and maybe it is, but you have to respect the fact that they wanna clean up the reputation and portrayal of their league. Every sane business man or woman would do something like this as well.
The league should teach that doing something stupid like flash a gang sign on TV will get your **** messed with. Not mandate that no one can perform such an act. The league teaches you to avoid skanky whores who will mother your child for money (look at Travis Henry) should they fine anyone for having illegit children? It certainly "reflects badly" on the league to have a bunch of players running around fathering bastard children (Matt Leinart, Tom Brady etc.) Also, the NFL has TOTAL control over what some idiot does in the spur of the moment. I know, maybe if you fine and suspend people for smoking weed, they'll stop doing that too.

God, your last paragraph...
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Old 07-22-2008, 04:23 AM    (permalink
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The league should teach that doing something stupid like flash a gang sign on TV will get your **** messed with. Not mandate that no one can perform such an act. The league teaches you to avoid skanky whores who will mother your child for money (look at Travis Henry) should they fine anyone for having illegit children? It certainly "reflects badly" on the league to have a bunch of players running around fathering bastard children (Matt Leinart, Tom Brady etc.) Also, the NFL has TOTAL control over what some idiot does in the spur of the moment. I know, maybe if you fine and suspend people for smoking weed, they'll stop doing that too.

God, I could go off on a 600 word riff about politics but I'm restraining myself right now.
If you could go off on a 600 word rant on something that made sense, i'd welcome it, but if it looks anything like your first paragraph, please, refrain.

Your analogy has absolutely no relation whatsoever to the topic at hand. What does fathering illegitimate children have anything to do with gang violence? There isn't a connection there, because while having children out of wedlock might seem immoral to most people, IT IS NOT ILLEGAL. Gangs kill people, sell drugs and guns, promote prostitution, launder money, etc. All of which are illegal. Having the league rid themselves of people that are representing certain gangs, and in essence condoning gang violence, makes complete sense.
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Old 07-22-2008, 04:30 AM    (permalink
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If you could go off on a 600 word rant on something that made sense, i'd welcome it, but if it looks anything like your first paragraph, please, refrain.

Your analogy has absolutely no relation whatsoever to the topic at hand. What does fathering illegitimate children have anything to do with gang violence? There isn't a connection there, because while having children out of wedlock might seem immoral to most people, IT IS NOT ILLEGAL. Gangs kill people, sell drugs and guns, promote prostitution, launder money, etc. All of which are illegal. Having the league rid themselves of people that are representing certain gangs, and in essence condoning gang violence, makes complete sense.
I wish we could discuss the politics behind drugs, guns, and prostitution, and how legalizing those would end gang crimes. But I won't.

Being in a gang isn't illegal, flashing gang signs isn't illegal, just like having babies out of wedlock isn't illegal. Your whole thing about gang related signs reflecting badly on the league is as valid as the multitude of players who father illegitimate children reflecting badly on the league.
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Old 07-22-2008, 04:38 AM    (permalink
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I wish we could discuss the politics behind drugs, guns, and prostitution, and how legalizing those would end gang crimes. But I won't.

Being in a gang isn't illegal, flashing gang signs isn't illegal, just like having babies out of wedlock isn't illegal. Your whole thing about gang related signs reflecting badly on the league is as valid as the multitude of players who father illegitimate children reflecting badly on the league.
Here, get this.

Promoting and condoning gang signs and gangs in general, is in essence promoting and condoning all the horrible things that come with it. What's so freakin hard to understand? Having children out of wedlock is no where near the same ballpark as any of the things affiliated with gangs. Geez..
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Old 07-22-2008, 04:43 AM    (permalink
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If you could go off on a 600 word rant on something that made sense, i'd welcome it, but if it looks anything like your first paragraph, please, refrain.

Your analogy has absolutely no relation whatsoever to the topic at hand. What does fathering illegitimate children have anything to do with gang violence? There isn't a connection there, because while having children out of wedlock might seem immoral to most people, IT IS NOT ILLEGAL. Gangs kill people, sell drugs and guns, promote prostitution, launder money, etc. All of which are illegal. Having the league rid themselves of people that are representing certain gangs, and in essence condoning gang violence, makes complete sense.
I think what PMD is trying to get this across: it is not illegal to be in a gang, but you are just bound to harsher penalties if found committing illegal acts, especially in the furtherance of the gang. In that respect, throwing up a gang sign is committing no illegal act - it really is no different than LJ throwing up the Roc. Jay-Z has certainly been involved in illegal activity, but LJ throwing up the sign certainly doesn't mean he is endorsing everything Jay Z has ever done or stood for. It's just an affiliation thing.
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Old 07-22-2008, 04:53 AM    (permalink
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I think what PMD is trying to get this across: it is not illegal to be in a gang, but you are just bound to harsher penalties if found committing illegal acts, especially in the furtherance of the gang. In that respect, throwing up a gang sign is committing no illegal act - it really is no different than LJ throwing up the Roc. Jay-Z has certainly been involved in illegal activity, but LJ throwing up the sign certainly doesn't mean he is endorsing everything Jay Z has ever done or stood for. It's just an affiliation thing.
I can see where you're going with that, but it's easy to poke a hole through that argument as well. By throwing up the Roc, or the DDP sign, whichever you prefer giving credit to, LJ is not exactly saying he's involved in any way with Jay-Z. Why else in the world would you throw gang signs if you're not affiliated with the respective gang? It wouldn't make a whole lot of sense, now would it?

The difference between the comparison you're making is an enormous one. Some people grow up in gangs, so they're around that stuff their whole life. One would imagine that you'd rid yourself of such relationships, but those who keep promoting it should be punished. Gangs as a group are not illegal, you're right, but nearly every damn thing they do is. If you're out there, representing a gang, you're representing EVERYTHING that comes with it.
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