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Old 02-28-2007, 10:24 PM    (permalink
GiantRutgersFan
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Default Eli Manning for Philip Rivers trade....

let me hear your thoughts....


I love how Chargers fans and NFL pundits think the Chargers got such a great deal. I say, give it time my friend.

Elwayesque is how I would describe ELI.... The comebacks... amazing. Its nervewracking, but exciting. People love to hate the guy, but he is something special.




Not gonna elaborate on my thoughts, but I am wondering what YOUR thoughts are? Do you like Merriman, even through his Steriods and showboating on the field? do you think Rivers will redeem himself from his piss poor playoff outing? will Rivers be able to perform once Tomlinson isnt performing as he did this season?


IDK the answers, but I am interested in your opinion.
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Old 02-28-2007, 11:07 PM    (permalink
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Rivers>Manning.

Eli doesnt show emotions, and I dont see people ralling around him.

Purress and Shockey dont even work out with him in the offseason so maybe its not Elis fault.

i believe Eli went to Miami last year just to get alittle work in with them.
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Old 02-28-2007, 11:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JoeMontainya View Post
Rivers>Manning.

Eli doesnt show emotions, and I dont see people ralling around him.

Purress and Shockey dont even work out with him in the offseason so maybe its not Elis fault.

i believe Eli went to Miami last year just to get alittle work in with them.
He is not an emotional QB. But on the otherhand, he is calm under pressure. Nothing can rattle the guy. He responds under pressure. Whether he visibly shows it or not, he has to be a leader in one way or another considering all the late 4th quarter drives he has led.


BTW its Burress not Puress and him and Shockey have been going to Miami there whole career and they are not missing any mandotory practices (although I think they should stay in Jersey)

As far as i know, eli didnt go to miami
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Old 02-28-2007, 11:23 PM    (permalink
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Here's why Chargers fans think we got a great deal -

At the time of the trade, the Chargers were much further from competing than the Giants were in terms of talent.

Since the trade, the Chargers are 35-15, and the Giants are 24-26.

Philip's career passer rating is 90.5. Eli's is 73.2.

Maybe some day, Eli will develop into the player he is supposed to be. But the player he is supposed to be, is at least as good as Philip is right now.
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Old 02-28-2007, 11:55 PM    (permalink
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"BTW its Burress not Puress and him and Shockey have been going to Miami there whole career and they are not missing any mandotory practices (although I think they should stay in Jersey)

As far as i know, eli didnt go to miami"

They are missing key time with there young QB, thats why they dont gell like they could potentially.

Eli went to Miami 2 years ago to throw with them because they wouldnt train with the team in non mandatory off season training.
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Old 03-01-2007, 06:55 AM    (permalink
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Here's why Chargers fans think we got a great deal -

At the time of the trade, the Chargers were much further from competing than the Giants were in terms of talent.

Since the trade, the Chargers are 35-15, and the Giants are 24-26.

Philip's career passer rating is 90.5. Eli's is 73.2.

Maybe some day, Eli will develop into the player he is supposed to be. But the player he is supposed to be, is at least as good as Philip is right now.
Sorry, but the "Piss Poor" playoff game was 3 times the game Eli had in his only playoff game. SD Chicken was RIGHT on the money, and nobody mentioned Keading yet, who is our Pro Bowl kicker. We couldn't be happier with Rivers, and we will have the Lombardi's to prove it when She-Li is still crying to his daddy and his big brother "waaaaaa, why can't have one of those shiny trophies with the football on it." To which Dad replies "Son, its because you didn't want to play for the Chargers."
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Old 03-01-2007, 11:15 AM    (permalink
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Philip led us to something like 4 or 5 2nd half comeback wins and had the highest 4th quarter QB rating in the NFL this year. So our quarterback is clutch without all the awful play that yours has. I really think it is no contest on who got the better end of the deal.
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Old 03-01-2007, 04:07 PM    (permalink
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psssshhhttt Nate Kaeding. the guy cant kick a clutch kick when it matters. Lost you guys the game against the Jets and stunk it up this year in the playoffs as well. Talk about Merriodman or Rivers if you want, but dont bring up Nate Kaeding....
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Old 03-01-2007, 04:57 PM    (permalink
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GRF, that is some good instigating. Keep up the good work.
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Old 03-01-2007, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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psssshhhttt Nate Kaeding. the guy cant kick a clutch kick when it matters. Lost you guys the game against the Jets and stunk it up this year in the playoffs as well. Talk about Merriodman or Rivers if you want, but dont bring up Nate Kaeding....

Dude why are you taking this so personal?? you are the one who brought this topic up.. I used to get mad alot, it aint worth it.. If you dont want people to put their thoughts in then dont make topics
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Old 03-01-2007, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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How did eli do nothing with the weapons he had, he had burress, shockey, tiki (screens). what more do you need, hes not living up to all the hype they gave him. And for merrimum he has to be the heart of the defense he's who gets everyone hype and the steriods thing, i mean half of the nfl is taking it and waiting to get caught so its not a big deal to me anymore. Rivers worked as best as he could with what he got the best WR he had was gates. Rivers>Eli

Go MERRIMUM


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Old 03-01-2007, 09:16 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan View Post
let me hear your thoughts....


I love how Chargers fans and NFL pundits think the Chargers got such a great deal. I say, give it time my friend.

Elwayesque is how I would describe ELI.... The comebacks... amazing. Its nervewracking, but exciting. People love to hate the guy, but he is something special.




Not gonna elaborate on my thoughts, but I am wondering what YOUR thoughts are? Do you like Merriman, even through his Steriods and showboating on the field? do you think Rivers will redeem himself from his piss poor playoff outing? will Rivers be able to perform once Tomlinson isnt performing as he did this season?


IDK the answers, but I am interested in your opinion.


There is maybe no single quarterback in NFL history that I hate more than John Elway; however, there is no doubting that he is one of the greatest of all time, and for my money THE greatest I've ever seen.

That you could even think of comparing Eli and big John is just ridiculous. Your whole post reeks of sour grapes. Just be honest; after all, nobody knows the feelings you must be having more than Charger fans, who got to watch the franchise trade up for Ryan Leaf.


Next year, when Coughlin is gone and the new regime brings in a new QB to "compete" against Eli, the poor kid is going to crumble even more. We haven't seen the worst from Eli, and that is saying something.
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Old 03-01-2007, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan View Post
let me hear your thoughts....


I love how Chargers fans and NFL pundits think the Chargers got such a great deal. I say, give it time my friend.

Elwayesque is how I would describe ELI.... The comebacks... amazing. Its nervewracking, but exciting. People love to hate the guy, but he is something special.




Not gonna elaborate on my thoughts, but I am wondering what YOUR thoughts are? Do you like Merriman, even through his Steriods and showboating on the field? do you think Rivers will redeem himself from his piss poor playoff outing? will Rivers be able to perform once Tomlinson isnt performing as he did this season?


IDK the answers, but I am interested in your opinion.

I will take your arguments point by point here in my rebuttal. For the record I find in pathetic that you compared Eli to Elway. I would find it hard to gather Giants fans that agree with that statement.

Lets start with the comebacks

Eli: @ Philly, vs. Houston
Rivers: @ Cincinnati, @ Denver, @ Seattle

Rivers' three comeback wins of the season trump Eli's not onl in difficulty, as all three are better opponents, but also as they were all on the visitor's field. Not only that, but whereas Rivers was largely responisble for all three of those victories, with the argument that LT carried the load in Denver, Elisha's teammates were largely responsible for the win @ Philly, and should I even consider a game vs Houston a comeback?

The next part of the comeback argument would be their stats in the games

Rivers: 53/92 for 741 Yards 7 TD and 2 INT
Eli: 43/71 for 550 Yards 5 TD and 2 INT

While Eli's stats, unfortunately for my argument are not bad in these games, it is important to note that these games occurred in the first half of the year, when his teammates were still enjoying a good enough chemistry to bail him out, ex. Plaxico. Which brings me to my next point.

The ability Rivers has to rally his troops and continue gaining support from hsi teammates puts Eli to shame. Eli, who looks like he is trying to hide on the field, is of no comparison to Rivers as a field general, who doesn't just hide in LT's shadow but arguably does more, mentally and vocally to get his teammates ready to play for him.

Onto your next point. Are we happy with Merriman even with his steroids and showboating on the field? I will ignore the fact that not only is the legitimacy of his failed drug test in question, the fact that it was not steroids, rather nandralone, a substance that can be produced naturally when excess creatine is taken, and just assume that he did in fact take steroids for arguments sake. YES!! we are happy with him. The man missed 4 games and recorded 17 sacks. Extrapulate that to a full season and your DE's precious gift from Brett Favre sack record is in danger. The man payed his punishment without complaints or whining what more do you want from him. He failed the test in the summer and has passed everyone since then up until this point. Showboating on the field? Explain to me the difference between any celebration Plaxico would do in the endzone, or one of your players would do after recording a sack. What about the "Ballin" celebration the Giants had become famous for when they were winning, is that not showboating? The answer is no, its a minor part of the game. It isn't taunting its celebrating your own play so yes I support that, and I support Shawne.

Onto Rivers' "piss poor playoff outing." How quickly you forget Eli's 0 Td 3 INT performance last year in the playoffs vs. Car. Lets forget for a second that Rivers was playing a very defensively sound Patriots defense that has been at the top of the league for years, and the fact that his recievers dropped more balls than they caught, he still set them up as best he could at the end of the game to win it. Oh and if you really want we will do a stat comparison in the postseason for Eli and Philip.

Rivers 1st playoff outing: 14/32 230 yards 0 TD 1 INT (Important to note horrid WR play)
Eli's 1st playoff outing: 10/18 113 yards 0 TD 3 INT

Neither are stellar, but I would take Rivers any day of the week in that scenario.

Finally, not only did Rivers prove he can be efficient without the constant LT threat out of the backfield, but what leads you to believe that LT will not continue to be this dominant for the next 3-4 years? LT is finally hitting his prime with the core to this team locked up for a couple years. An ever-improving O-Line, hard workout program, and Lorenzo Neal paving the way for him shows no evidence he will ever stop being dominant for the next couple years. Not to mention that he has never rushed for less than 1236 yards in his career.

By the way, you conviently left out Nate Kaeding and Roman Oben from the Herschel Walker trade of the salary cap era. You remark that Kaeding is nothing but a choker. I have nothing but confidence in Nate. 26/29 on the season and a pro bowl season. Oh, but im sorry I forgot as a rookie kicker he choked against the Jets on a 39, alost 40 yard(Not a chip shot), field goal from the right hash when we were lucky to even be there in the first place. Oh right and he missed a 55 yarder, kicking into the wind, with the play clock running out because Marty lost a timeout on a meaningless challenge. By your logic a kicker who can't make a 55 yarder from the hash into the wind with no preparation time is a bust? Oh and let's throw in that 5th round pick who turned into Roman Oben, who anchored the line for 2-3 years before we brought in McNeill.

Oh and just to seal the deal... 2006 Stats

Rivers: 284/460 for 3388 yards, 22 TD 9 INT, 92.0 QB RAT
Eli: 301/522 for 3244 yards, 24 TD 18 INT, 77.0 QB RAT
The only area Sheli has the edge in is touchdowns, which stem from the fact his starting RB only stole 5 TD from him, where as LT stole 28?(maybe 29) that did not come from Rivers. Oh and he threw the ball 62 more times.

In conclusion, not only is Rivers > Eli
BUT
Rivers+Merriman+Kaeding+Oben>Eli

That is why all the pundits and fans across AMERICA regard the trade as insane

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Old 03-02-2007, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan View Post
let me hear your thoughts....


I love how Chargers fans and NFL pundits think the Chargers got such a great deal. I say, give it time my friend.

Elwayesque is how I would describe ELI.... The comebacks... amazing. Its nervewracking, but exciting. People love to hate the guy, but he is something special.




Not gonna elaborate on my thoughts, but I am wondering what YOUR thoughts are? Do you like Merriman, even through his Steriods and showboating on the field? do you think Rivers will redeem himself from his piss poor playoff outing? will Rivers be able to perform once Tomlinson isnt performing as he did this season?


IDK the answers, but I am interested in your opinion.
Manning will become the biggest bust in the History of the NFL, and fifteen years from now, when Rivers and Merriman are going to the Hall of Fame. ESPN will play over and over how they, how much the Giants regret the day they made that trade.
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Old 03-02-2007, 05:47 PM    (permalink
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Manning will become the biggest bust in the History of the NFL, and fifteen years from now, when Rivers and Merriman are going to the Hall of Fame. ESPN will play over and over how they, how much the Giants regret the day they made that trade.
if merrimam will get into the hall of fame it could be delayed cause of the steriods.
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Old 03-03-2007, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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if merrimam will get into the hall of fame it could be delayed cause of the steriods.
If he stays clean from here on out. I don't see a problem. And if he puts up HoF numbers up like last years for the next six, seven years, he will make it anyway. Either way if Mannings name was Johnson. He would have been a 3rd Round pick. Thank god they like glitter in NY.

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Old 03-03-2007, 09:26 PM    (permalink
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I'll say this, if Eli had been drafted by the Chargers, I think he would have been better. His passer rating would hopefully be in the 80's. However, his intelligence is highly questionable, which will always hurt him as a player. And he doesn't seem to have the greatest work ethic, and he's not fundamentally sound. He's rattled when he has pressure in his face (Philip isn't good with pressure on him either). He does have a strong arm and is a reasonably good deep ball passer to his credit.
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Old 03-05-2007, 11:24 PM    (permalink
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I will take your arguments point by point here in my rebuttal. For the record I find in pathetic that you compared Eli to Elway. I would find it hard to gather Giants fans that agree with that statement.

Lets start with the comebacks

Eli: @ Philly, vs. Houston
Rivers: @ Cincinnati, @ Denver, @ Seattle

Rivers' three comeback wins of the season trump Eli's not onl in difficulty, as all three are better opponents, but also as they were all on the visitor's field. Not only that, but whereas Rivers was largely responisble for all three of those victories, with the argument that LT carried the load in Denver, Elisha's teammates were largely responsible for the win @ Philly, and should I even consider a game vs Houston a comeback?

The next part of the comeback argument would be their stats in the games

Rivers: 53/92 for 741 Yards 7 TD and 2 INT
Eli: 43/71 for 550 Yards 5 TD and 2 INT

While Eli's stats, unfortunately for my argument are not bad in these games, it is important to note that these games occurred in the first half of the year, when his teammates were still enjoying a good enough chemistry to bail him out, ex. Plaxico. Which brings me to my next point.

The ability Rivers has to rally his troops and continue gaining support from hsi teammates puts Eli to shame. Eli, who looks like he is trying to hide on the field, is of no comparison to Rivers as a field general, who doesn't just hide in LT's shadow but arguably does more, mentally and vocally to get his teammates ready to play for him.

Onto your next point. Are we happy with Merriman even with his steroids and showboating on the field? I will ignore the fact that not only is the legitimacy of his failed drug test in question, the fact that it was not steroids, rather nandralone, a substance that can be produced naturally when excess creatine is taken, and just assume that he did in fact take steroids for arguments sake. YES!! we are happy with him. The man missed 4 games and recorded 17 sacks. Extrapulate that to a full season and your DE's precious gift from Brett Favre sack record is in danger. The man payed his punishment without complaints or whining what more do you want from him. He failed the test in the summer and has passed everyone since then up until this point. Showboating on the field? Explain to me the difference between any celebration Plaxico would do in the endzone, or one of your players would do after recording a sack. What about the "Ballin" celebration the Giants had become famous for when they were winning, is that not showboating? The answer is no, its a minor part of the game. It isn't taunting its celebrating your own play so yes I support that, and I support Shawne.

Onto Rivers' "piss poor playoff outing." How quickly you forget Eli's 0 Td 3 INT performance last year in the playoffs vs. Car. Lets forget for a second that Rivers was playing a very defensively sound Patriots defense that has been at the top of the league for years, and the fact that his recievers dropped more balls than they caught, he still set them up as best he could at the end of the game to win it. Oh and if you really want we will do a stat comparison in the postseason for Eli and Philip.

Rivers 1st playoff outing: 14/32 230 yards 0 TD 1 INT (Important to note horrid WR play)
Eli's 1st playoff outing: 10/18 113 yards 0 TD 3 INT

Neither are stellar, but I would take Rivers any day of the week in that scenario.

Finally, not only did Rivers prove he can be efficient without the constant LT threat out of the backfield, but what leads you to believe that LT will not continue to be this dominant for the next 3-4 years? LT is finally hitting his prime with the core to this team locked up for a couple years. An ever-improving O-Line, hard workout program, and Lorenzo Neal paving the way for him shows no evidence he will ever stop being dominant for the next couple years. Not to mention that he has never rushed for less than 1236 yards in his career.

By the way, you conviently left out Nate Kaeding and Roman Oben from the Herschel Walker trade of the salary cap era. You remark that Kaeding is nothing but a choker. I have nothing but confidence in Nate. 26/29 on the season and a pro bowl season. Oh, but im sorry I forgot as a rookie kicker he choked against the Jets on a 39, alost 40 yard(Not a chip shot), field goal from the right hash when we were lucky to even be there in the first place. Oh right and he missed a 55 yarder, kicking into the wind, with the play clock running out because Marty lost a timeout on a meaningless challenge. By your logic a kicker who can't make a 55 yarder from the hash into the wind with no preparation time is a bust? Oh and let's throw in that 5th round pick who turned into Roman Oben, who anchored the line for 2-3 years before we brought in McNeill.

Oh and just to seal the deal... 2006 Stats

Rivers: 284/460 for 3388 yards, 22 TD 9 INT, 92.0 QB RAT
Eli: 301/522 for 3244 yards, 24 TD 18 INT, 77.0 QB RAT
The only area Sheli has the edge in is touchdowns, which stem from the fact his starting RB only stole 5 TD from him, where as LT stole 28?(maybe 29) that did not come from Rivers. Oh and he threw the ball 62 more times.

In conclusion, not only is Rivers > Eli
BUT
Rivers+Merriman+Kaeding+Oben>Eli

That is why all the pundits and fans across AMERICA regard the trade as insane

Please dont make that long of a post.

You posted 2 of Eli's comeback's when it was more like 5, plus the comeback Eli orchestrated in the playoffs (only for the D to blow it, story of the year) The Giants do not have a good defense to fall back on that San Diego did.

Eli is a calm person. He is not a flamboyant guy. There is nothing wrong with that. He says what needs to be said in the huddle and gets it done. Not everyone is the kind of person who yells and goes nuts on the football field. I was very similar to Eli in that respect, and I was captain of my HS team and no one would say I wasnt a leader. Its just a personality thing.


Merriman is a thug all around. he showed up wearing a wifebeater on national TV during a game while suspended. Giants would never put up with stuff like that.

Rivers was awful during the playoff game. Eli had a terrible first outing as well, but so did the entire Giants team. And he redeemed himself this past year in the playoffs with a very solid game. Rivers has been bad all around. Plus he had a 60 yard dumpoff pass to LDT for a TD. If you actually watched the game you would know he was terrible.


Kaeding is a choker. I dont even need to back that one up.


I dont deny that people think the G-Men got the short end of the stick on this trade. But I dont see it that way, and neither will everyone else when its all said and done. And I would not want Rivers, or Merriodman on my team whatsoever....
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Old 03-06-2007, 12:02 AM    (permalink
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Hey GiantRutgersFan, I think it's about time you get off the chargers forum with your pointless arguments.
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Old 03-06-2007, 12:48 AM    (permalink
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Rivers was awful during the playoff game. Eli had a terrible first outing as well, but so did the entire Giants team. And he redeemed himself this past year in the playoffs with a very solid game. Rivers has been bad all around. Plus he had a 60 yard dumpoff pass to LDT for a TD. If you actually watched the game you would know he was terrible.
Actually, if you watched the game, you'd know that LT didn't score on that play.
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Old 03-06-2007, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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eli keeps downgrading every year...the guy has all the talent around him and he still struggles...the only reason he went #1 overall was cause of his LAST NAME not his production
the giants got ripped off plain and simple...this trade could go down as one of the most lopsided trades ever
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Old 03-06-2007, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan View Post
Please dont make that long of a post.

You posted 2 of Eli's comeback's when it was more like 5, plus the comeback Eli orchestrated in the playoffs (only for the D to blow it, story of the year) The Giants do not have a good defense to fall back on that San Diego did.

Eli is a calm person. He is not a flamboyant guy. There is nothing wrong with that. He says what needs to be said in the huddle and gets it done. Not everyone is the kind of person who yells and goes nuts on the football field. I was very similar to Eli in that respect, and I was captain of my HS team and no one would say I wasnt a leader. Its just a personality thing.


Merriman is a thug all around. he showed up wearing a wifebeater on national TV during a game while suspended. Giants would never put up with stuff like that.

Rivers was awful during the playoff game. Eli had a terrible first outing as well, but so did the entire Giants team. And he redeemed himself this past year in the playoffs with a very solid game. Rivers has been bad all around. Plus he had a 60 yard dumpoff pass to LDT for a TD. If you actually watched the game you would know he was terrible.


Kaeding is a choker. I dont even need to back that one up.


I dont deny that people think the G-Men got the short end of the stick on this trade. But I dont see it that way, and neither will everyone else when its all said and done. And I would not want Rivers, or Merriodman on my team whatsoever....
First of all, ill make a post as long as i need to in order to get my information across. I mentioned two of Eli's comebacks because he had two. Name his other ones that you insist he has. Oh by the way, if you don't win the game, its not a comeback! (Oh and you mention SD good defense...who is the face of that defense HINT: He wears #56)

Merriman a thug? If the way a person dresses defines them as a thug than half the NFL falls into that category, including your very own Plaxico Burress, and many other members of your team. So the thought that the Giants wouldn't tolerate that is absurd.

Eli is calm alright, so calm that his existence on the field is almost unnoticeable. It's great that you were a quiet leader on your HS team as a captain. I was a captain too buddy, and I can assure you that whether you lead by example or lead vocally you need to do something to lead, and Eli does nothing in that regard.

Right, and the playoff thing? Eli gets a free pass because his team had a bad game? And you ask if I watched the game? The Chargers team had their worst all around game as a team this year. Pal, I watched the game he was far from terrible and the argument is easily made he outplayed Brady, don't let your personal bias get in the way.

Kaeding...right I already addressed how you cannot define him as a choker, but if you insist I obviously can't change your mind.

So you can think whatever you want about Eli vs Rivers/Merriman/Kaeding/Oben, but if you're gonna make a legitimate argument, why don't you try countering one of my points, whether it be River's superior stats, his pro bowl status, superior team record, superior leadership skills, superior comeback status, and superior playoff performance.
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Old 03-06-2007, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Jhasley10 View Post
eli keeps downgrading every year...the guy has all the talent around him and he still struggles...the only reason he went #1 overall was cause of his LAST NAME not his production
the giants got ripped off plain and simple...this trade could go down as one of the most lopsided trades ever

I couldn't agree more, the only more lopsided trade I can think of is the Herschel Walker trade.
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Old 03-07-2007, 12:04 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan View Post
I dont even need to back that one up.


I dont deny that people think the G-Men got the short end of the stick on this trade. But I dont see it that way, and neither will everyone else when its all said and done. And I would not want Rivers, or Merriodman on my team whatsoever....
Eli blows. Hes busting right before your very eyes, and you dont want to see it. Thats your problem, enjoy your 4-12 2007 NY Giants. But don't *** on here and say you wouldnt want Merriman that just BS. With all the whiners and freaks on that Giant team, and you come here and bust on him? The real NFL DPOY? Get a brain then maybe you can get a life.
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Old 03-07-2007, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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maybe san diego can rip off the giants again this offseason....who knows switch michael turner for gibril wilson <you know the giants will somehow give another draft pick also >
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