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Old 07-21-2008, 01:39 AM    (permalink
Geo
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Originally Posted by Paranoidmoonduck View Post
And yet, 2008 is here and it is not 2007.
Parcells' 06 Cowboys stumbled badly down the stretch as they were unable to generate a pass rush. The Giants won the Super Bowl championship last year thanks mainly to their pass rush and Eli converting third downs through the air. The Eagles in recent years haven't been able to generate the same amount of turnovers they used to as they haven't played a worthwhile pass-rusher outside of Trent Cole - good thing they finally dumped Javon Kearse, Jerome McDougle and Darren Howard are deserving of being cut too if there was only enough quality depth present. But Howard is signed to a big contract (ouch), so the Eagles are moving him inside to tackle for the time being, until he is inevitably cut sooner rather than later.

I don't dig aping convenient ignorance of the importance of the pass rush in this division, especially when it comes from a fan of any team in the division and this acquisition is of a skilled veteran who is still disruptive in Jason Taylor.

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The Redskins lost one of their base ends to New York (Renaldo Wynn) and just lost their other one to a potentially season ending ACL injury. They're replacing both of them with a 33 year old pass rushing specialist who may be forced to play more snaps that he should for lack of depth.
Renaldo Wynn was with the Saints last year, actually. And whatever deficiency in run defense there is, it is overlapped times over by the gain in pass rush.
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Old 07-21-2008, 01:42 AM    (permalink
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Great acquisition for the Redskins who are starting to turn the corner. Was pissed to see him land there to be honest. Only makes the NFC East that much tougher. Gonna be fun to watch Zach Thomas on the Cowboys and Jason Taylor on the Redskins go at it this season.

Shoot. After drafting Colt Brennan this trade for Taylor is just like a cherry on top!
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Old 07-21-2008, 01:47 AM    (permalink
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As was mentioned before, if Taylor stays for 2-3 years, then this is a good trade. If he is only in DC for 1 year, then it wasn't worth the draft picks.
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Old 07-21-2008, 02:16 AM    (permalink
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Renaldo Wynn was with the Saints last year, actually. And whatever deficiency in run defense there is, it is overlapped times over by the gain in pass rush.
Right you are, my mistake.

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Originally Posted by Geo View Post
Parcells' 06 Cowboys stumbled badly down the stretch as they were unable to generate a pass rush. The Giants won the Super Bowl championship last year thanks mainly to their pass rush and Eli converting third downs through the air. The Eagles in recent years haven't been able to generate the same amount of turnovers they used to as they haven't played a worthwhile pass-rusher outside of Trent Cole - good thing they finally dumped Javon Kearse, Jerome McDougle and Darren Howard are deserving of being cut too if there was only enough quality depth present. But Howard is signed to a big contract (ouch), so the Eagles are moving him inside to tackle for the time being, until he is inevitably cut sooner rather than later.

I don't dig aping convenient ignorance of the importance of the pass rush in this division, especially when it comes from a fan of any team in the division and this acquisition is of a skilled veteran who is still disruptive in Jason Taylor.
I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make. Of course pass rush is important, I never said otherwise. In fact, I never even said the trade was a poor one (although I think a 2nd rounder holds more value to a team like the Redskins).

However, using the theory that since the Redskins were awesome against the run in 2007, they will continue to be even if they change their personnel at some fairly important positions is pretty unstable territory. There's definitely reason to think that the run defense will fall off a bit, something that doesn't bode well for a team that may not have much of a shot at the playoffs anyway.
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Old 07-21-2008, 05:25 AM    (permalink
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Who is the best player on the dolphins now? Its gonna be incredibly hard to watch
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Old 07-21-2008, 05:36 AM    (permalink
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Jason Taylor wasn't the best player on the Dolphins last year, so their guy is still there. Ronnie Brown is a hell of a player, so if he can stay healthy he should be producing at a Top-3-AFC level, again. For his sake, i hope they can get the quarterback situation settled in Training Camp, to avoid a Minnesota Vikings situation where your running game is killed thanks to your lack of a productive passing game. Ginn and Hagan should be a little more polished so they won't be COMPLETELY horrible on offense.. horrible nonetheless, though.

Good luck on defense.
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Old 07-21-2008, 05:48 AM    (permalink
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I meant best player on defense
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Old 07-21-2008, 05:51 AM    (permalink
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Makes sense.

With little to no help around him, i wouldn't be surprised to see Channing Crowder put up some big numbers.
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Old 07-21-2008, 06:05 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Geo View Post
Parcells' 06 Cowboys stumbled badly down the stretch as they were unable to generate a pass rush. The Giants won the Super Bowl championship last year thanks mainly to their pass rush and Eli converting third downs through the air. The Eagles in recent years haven't been able to generate the same amount of turnovers they used to as they haven't played a worthwhile pass-rusher outside of Trent Cole - good thing they finally dumped Javon Kearse, Jerome McDougle and Darren Howard are deserving of being cut too if there was only enough quality depth present. But Howard is signed to a big contract (ouch), so the Eagles are moving him inside to tackle for the time being, until he is inevitably cut sooner rather than later.

I don't dig aping convenient ignorance of the importance of the pass rush in this division, especially when it comes from a fan of any team in the division and this acquisition is of a skilled veteran who is still disruptive in Jason Taylor.


Renaldo Wynn was with the Saints last year, actually. And whatever deficiency in run defense there is, it is overlapped times over by the gain in pass rush.

Having a good pass rush can only make up for weak run defense if your team is an offensive power house forcing the other team into shoot outs to make up points.

If you've got a team built on running the ball, like the redskins are going to be with a new system and an inexperienced QB they need to be able to grind out games with three and outs. Poor run defense won't get them that.
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Old 07-21-2008, 08:14 AM    (permalink
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I hate hearing all this junk about the Skins being a weak run defense. We were 3rd against the run last year, we are the same team that held the Cowboys to 1 total rushing yard the entire game week 16 or so last year. Phillip Daniels was hurt last year too, Demetric Evans played a huge role in our run defense as our base DE and he is still here. He will probably be playing many run downs while giving Taylor a breather for pass rush downs. Andre Carter is a very underrated run stopper. True at times he can be pushed out of position by mammoth OT's, but it doesn't happen often and his motor is incredible. Last year our run defense did this all with Cornelius Griffin gone, but now he's back and Anthony Montgomery and Kedric Golston and even Lorenzo Alexander are aboslute run stoppers, with Golston also having great pass rush ability. And now all of a sudden after 11 years London Fletcher is too small to play against the run?lol. If anything I would be more worried about our pass coverage but Taylor will definitely help with that. As well as pass rush specialist Chris Wilson who performed well last year, and hopefully Erasumus James can do something. Our pass defense did solid last year despite losing Sean Taylor, losing Carlos Rogers for most of the year, and losing Shawn Springs. This year Rogers should be back, Springs is back and looking good, Smoot looked more like his former self last year, and Landry should only be better. Rocky McIntosh should be back, but HB Blades is ready to be a starter if need be. Marcus Washington should also be back after missing most of last year. People don't realize how truly impressive the skins defense was last year to still be top 10 in the league despite losing 4 starters for the season early, and another 4-5 starters who missed 5+ games, not to mention the passing of Sean Taylor. I know any team can lay claim that their team was affected the most by injuries, but the Skins I think have to be up there, they made the playoffs, despite 13 of their 24 starters missing at least 3 games, with 7 of them missing 8+ games.
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Old 07-21-2008, 09:12 AM    (permalink
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Great trade for Taylor, but im somewhat confused.

Are they planning on putting Taylor on the strongside at LE? That would be a big mistake. Taylor is a stoute run defender as a RE, but LE is a whole different ball game. 245 lbs isn't gonna cut it on the strong side.


So while I question what impact this will have on their run defense, their pass rush on 3rd downs has increased significantly with this move. So its a catch 22, as of right now its great in one way but Id be skeptical in another.


Regardless, the NFC East gets even stronger. Im getting tired of all these good players going to my division rivals.
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Old 07-21-2008, 09:23 AM    (permalink
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Great trade for Taylor, but im somewhat confused.

Are they planning on putting Taylor on the strongside at LE? That would be a big mistake. Taylor is a stoute run defender as a RE, but LE is a whole different ball game. 245 lbs isn't gonna cut it on the strong side.


So while I question what impact this will have on their run defense, their pass rush on 3rd downs has increased significantly with this move. So its a catch 22, as of right now its great in one way but Id be skeptical in another.


Regardless, the NFC East gets even stronger. Im getting tired of all these good players going to my division rivals.

That's what I asked as well. He's going to be having to deal with 2 blockers a lot more often, and the bulk you look for in a LE isn't there.
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Old 07-21-2008, 09:40 AM    (permalink
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Dolphins run the 4-3 defense not that long ago? What year was that and how did Taylor fare playing with his hands down that entire year? I can't recall how many years they have been using the 3-4 and I was curious in what JT seems to play better in.
I believe the majority of his career has been spent playing as a DE in a 4-3, and he has only played in the 3-4 recently.
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Old 07-21-2008, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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ITT - We see jealous giants fans bash a solid acquisition with old cliches and unfounded knocks on JT.


great pickup... would have been better for a third but a second isn't terrible.
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Old 07-21-2008, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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ITT - We see jealous giants fans bash a solid acquisition with old cliches and unfounded knocks on JT.


great pickup... would have been better for a third but a second isn't terrible.
why would we be jealous?

and questioning his ability to stop the run on the strongside is not that outrageous, its a very valid point.

but like i said, its still an upgrade and now you can do more of those 4 man rushes that your DC wants to do. if you didn't get a pass rusher, your defense would be really bad this year. now it can still be top 10 caliber if Taylor can hold the fort against the run.
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Old 07-21-2008, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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why would we be jealous?

and questioning his ability to stop the run on the strongside is not that outrageous, its a very valid point.

but like i said, its still an upgrade and now you can do more of those 4 man rushes that your DC wants to do. if you didn't get a pass rusher, your defense would be really bad this year. now it can still be top 10 caliber if Taylor can hold the fort against the run.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/jealous

feeling resentment against someone because of that person's rivalry, success, or advantages (often fol. by of): He was jealous of his rich brother.

You think jason taylor is worse at stopping the run than phillip daniels?
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Old 07-21-2008, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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Adrian Peterson said the hardest defense he faced last year was the Redskins. If it's good enough for AP, it's good enough for anybody.

http://mvn.com/nfl-redskins/2008/06/...rian-peterson/

Anthony Montgomery and London Fletcher played lights out that game. Towards the end of the season, Carter wasn't getting trapped behind those OTs anymore and could force some TFLs. If we can get Carlos Rogers and Rocky McIntosh back early in the season I really like our defense. Hopefully Erasmus James will come off the PUP sometime mid season and fit perfectly into our rotation.

Pending any other injuries and a few speedy recoveries, I really think our defense can be a threat this year under Blatche.
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Old 07-21-2008, 12:28 PM    (permalink
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Great trade for Taylor, but im somewhat confused.

Are they planning on putting Taylor on the strongside at LE? That would be a big mistake. Taylor is a stoute run defender as a RE, but LE is a whole different ball game. 245 lbs isn't gonna cut it on the strong side.


So while I question what impact this will have on their run defense, their pass rush on 3rd downs has increased significantly with this move. So its a catch 22, as of right now its great in one way but Id be skeptical in another.


Regardless, the NFC East gets even stronger. Im getting tired of all these good players going to my division rivals.

He is only 245 lbs? Damn he will get owned if he plays strongside at LE.
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Old 07-21-2008, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/jealous

feeling resentment against someone because of that person's rivalry, success, or advantages (often fol. by of): He was jealous of his rich brother.

You think jason taylor is worse at stopping the run than phillip daniels?
we don't know that yet is all im saying. we haven't seen him play strongside ever in his entire career.

ask anyone who's played the position, playing strongside DE and weakside are 2 different worlds. just bc he was stoute against the run as a RE by no means indicates he'll do the same on the strongside with a bigger stronger RT and a TE moving him out of the way.

if i were to guess, id say he'll be solid still, but its just speculating at this point. however, he'd defy the odds by being great against the run in that role.
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Old 07-21-2008, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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If DT Anthony Montgomery's progress continues throughout next season, his value as a run-stuffing rock in the middle of the skin's d line will make up for the downgrade in run defense from Daniels to Taylor. There's only one question mark: Does Taylor still have his competitive edge?

If so, it will be great to see what the redskin's secondary can do now with a pass rush. The corners and linebackers will have at least 14 pics between them, and landry should add 4-5.

Ultimately, JTs addition will offset the loss of sean taylor, and the defense should remain dominant. More turnovers should help an offense that ranked 20th in the league in ppg. Jim Zorn's attacking mentality should also add points in the redzone, deviating from Joe Gibbs's etched-in-stone conservative playcalling:

1st: run portis up the middle (effective 4% of the time)
2nd: run portis to the side (effective 6% of the time)
3rd: play action and pray cooley's open (effective 10% of the time)
4th: kick (what ended up happening 80% of the time)
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Old 07-21-2008, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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He is only 245 lbs? Damn he will get owned if he plays strongside at LE.
245 with wet boots on.


thats what im trying to explain to these guys, its not as simple as it sounds. you coach, you know what im talking about.
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Old 07-21-2008, 12:38 PM    (permalink
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Adrian Peterson said the hardest defense he faced last year was the Redskins. If it's good enough for AP, it's good enough for anybody.

http://mvn.com/nfl-redskins/2008/06/...rian-peterson/

Anthony Montgomery and London Fletcher played lights out that game. Towards the end of the season, Carter wasn't getting trapped behind those OTs anymore and could force some TFLs. If we can get Carlos Rogers and Rocky McIntosh back early in the season I really like our defense. Hopefully Erasmus James will come off the PUP sometime mid season and fit perfectly into our rotation.

Pending any other injuries and a few speedy recoveries, I really think our defense can be a threat this year under Blatche.
Personally, I don't know enough about Blatche to have an honest critique of him.

I like your LB core albeit an old one. McIntosh is a stud in the making if he can come back from that terrible injury.

Landry will be a top 3 safety at worst imo this year. But your DTs, and CBs are big question marks. DTs are no big deal bc of your LB core, but your CB situation is not good. And you can't mask it the way we did with a dominant pass rush, because while your pass rush will be solid, it won't be dominant.
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Old 07-21-2008, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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Personally, I don't know enough about Blatche to have an honest critique of him.

I like your LB core albeit an old one. McIntosh is a stud in the making if he can come back from that terrible injury.

Landry will be a top 3 safety at worst imo this year. But your DTs, and CBs are big question marks. DTs are no big deal bc of your LB core, but your CB situation is not good. And you can't mask it the way we did with a dominant pass rush, because while your pass rush will be solid, it won't be dominant.
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we don't know that yet is all im saying. we haven't seen him play strongside ever in his entire career.

ask anyone who's played the position, playing strongside DE and weakside are 2 different worlds. just bc he was stoute against the run as a RE by no means indicates he'll do the same on the strongside with a bigger stronger RT and a TE moving him out of the way.

if i were to guess, id say he'll be solid still, but its just speculating at this point. however, he'd defy the odds by being great against the run in that role.

It's true we don't have what your depth was last yeah... but our secondary and our lbs are better imo.

Im very aware than JT is undersized and all but... while size does matter i think we can all agree it's the motion of the ocean combined with good foreplay. Our run D was number 3 last year... and my question wasn't will JT do spectacular. My question was will we see fall off from him to phillip daniels in stopping the run??
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Old 07-21-2008, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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It's true we don't have your depth... but our secondary is better imo.

Im very aware than JT is undersized and all but... while size does matter i think we can all agree it's the motion of the ocean combined with good foreplay. Our run D was number 3 last year... and my question wasn't will JT do spectacular. My question was will he be better than phillip daniels.
Actually, and this might be homerism talking, I think the Giants are going to have a very good and underrated secondary next year. I expect Ross to develop into a stud, Corey Webster to continue to grow into this new defense, and I expect Thomas to blossom into the same role Ross had last year. I also like our depth and matchups with Dockery in the slot against smaller quick WRs. Phillips is also going to surprise a lot of the draftniks that said he sucks.

But anyway, as for your question, I think he will give you the same production if he pans out in that position. Its not easy to play that side with his strength.

Remember, when analyzing Taylor, you gotta see how he plays and what makes him great. He's a speed rusher with great moves. He's able to hold his ground against the run on the weakside with hands and leverage.

However as a LE, you gotta have some strength to go with that. You gotta be strong enough to break the RT/TE combo block. I don't know if Taylor is strong enough to do that. We haven't seen it yet at least. Thats why im skeptical.

I wouldn't put it past him, but at the same time it wouldn't shock me if he is poor against the run on the strongside. Its not as easy as it sounds.
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Old 07-21-2008, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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245 with wet boots on.


thats what im trying to explain to these guys, its not as simple as it sounds. you coach, you know what im talking about.
Yeah but the avg. fan doesn't know it. They think DE is DE, right or left, same stuff, and if the guy is a stud, he will be a stud no matter what.

But put a 245 lb guy at DE in a 4-3 strongside, and then a TE and RT will own the ever living piss out of that DE. That's what makes Strahan's accomplishments special.
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