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Old 07-21-2008, 01:03 PM    (permalink
McBain
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Actually, and this might be homerism talking, I think the Giants are going to have a very good and underrated secondary next year. I expect Ross to develop into a stud, Corey Webster to continue to grow into this new defense, and I expect Thomas to blossom into the same role Ross had last year. I also like our depth and matchups with Dockery in the slot against smaller quick WRs. Phillips is also going to surprise a lot of the draftniks that said he sucks.

But anyway, as for your question, I think he will give you the same production if he pans out in that position. Its not easy to play that side with his strength.

Remember, when analyzing Taylor, you gotta see how he plays and what makes him great. He's a speed rusher with great moves. He's able to hold his ground against the run on the weakside with hands and leverage.

However as a LE, you gotta have some strength to go with that. You gotta be strong enough to break the RT/TE combo block. I don't know if Taylor is strong enough to do that. We haven't seen it yet at least. Thats why im skeptical.

I wouldn't put it past him, but at the same time it wouldn't shock me if he is poor against the run on the strongside. Its not as easy as it sounds.
Then the question that follows would be. Do you think he pans? I think you are over-rating the switch from lde to rde... obviously it's a change and i agree it will be an adjustment but i'm a firm believer in a great player is a great player is a great player. JT is a great player and will adjust.

Oh as far as the giants secondary... i think they benefited from the best pass rush in the game last year.... which has probably been said but still remains my unoriginal take. Aaron Ross is pretty good though.

Anyways off season speculation... woo.
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Old 07-21-2008, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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Yeah but the avg. fan doesn't know it. They think DE is DE, right or left, same stuff, and if the guy is a stud, he will be a stud no matter what.

But put a 245 lb guy at DE in a 4-3 strongside, and then a TE and RT will own the ever living piss out of that DE. That's what makes Strahan's accomplishments special.
Im glad you brought up Strahan. Bc i know someone is gonna say "well how did Strahan do it later in his career at 255?"

But what's lost in that is how strong Strahan was. Even at 255, Strahan played like a 300 lb lineman. He was that strong. He was an ox, and one of a kind in that regards.

As great as Taylor is, and Im a huge Taylor fan, he doesn't play as strong as Strahan does. Nobody does really. So its an unfair comparison.
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Old 07-21-2008, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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Then the question that follows would be. Do you think he pans? I think you are over-rating the switch from lde to rde... obviously it's a change and i agree it will be an adjustment but i'm a firm believer in a great player is a great player is a great player. JT is a great player and will adjust.
I think he will pan out. But I think it will be an adjustment that will reach full circle probably after week 4. Its gonna take some time to adjust to. He might try to put on weight to fit the role as well during the season.

But its not gonna be an easy transition. This is Jason Taylor, I have a feeling he'll figure it out sooner or later, but its not gonna be an easy transition.

I also feel however, that Taylor won't be as successful as a LE opposed to his days at RE.

Still successful though.
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Old 07-21-2008, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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I think he will pan out. But I think it will be an adjustment that will reach full circle probably after week 4. Its gonna take some time to adjust to. He might try to put on weight to fit the role as well during the season.

But its not gonna be an easy transition. This is Jason Taylor, I have a feeling he'll figure it out sooner or later, but its not gonna be an easy transition.

I also feel however, that Taylor won't be as successful as a LE opposed to his days at RE.

Still successful though.
I don't know how long it takes... but i agree... hi-five.
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Old 07-21-2008, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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I don't know how long it takes... but i agree... hi-five.
:)

make sure you beat the Cowboys lol ;)
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Old 07-21-2008, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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Im glad you brought up Strahan. Bc i know someone is gonna say "well how did Strahan do it later in his career at 255?"

But what's lost in that is how strong Strahan was. Even at 255, Strahan played like a 300 lb lineman. He was that strong. He was an ox, and one of a kind in that regards.

As great as Taylor is, and Im a huge Taylor fan, he doesn't play as strong as Strahan does. Nobody does really. So its an unfair comparison.
Strahan did it because he had a rare combo of size and strength, AND most importantly was a technically sound DE, who had a variety of moves. He was successful because he had many, many moves from the bull rush to a simple swim, or rip. He used all these moves with his size, strength, and speed and that's how he became good.
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Old 07-21-2008, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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Strahan did it because he had a rare combo of size and strength, AND most importantly was a technically sound DE, who had a variety of moves. He was successful because he had many, many moves from the bull rush to a simple swim, or rip. He used all these moves with his size, strength, and speed and that's how he became good.
Taylor is just as great from a technique perspective too. The thing that separates Strahan from Taylor though is pure strength.

Both of them have made a career out of using dominant leverage and technique and a variety of moves. Strahan is much stronger though.
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Old 07-21-2008, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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In the press conference Taylor addressed the switch from RDE to LDE. He said that when he was under Saban he played a great deal on the left. In 05 and 06 under Saban he had 25.5 total sacks 2 INT 21 PDs and 13 FFs.

He looked a little slim in the conference, but he has some time to build some strength through reps with our 5 preseason games. I'm glad we got him and hopefully he can help force some turnovers this season.
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Old 07-21-2008, 05:55 PM    (permalink
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In the press conference Taylor addressed the switch from RDE to LDE. He said that when he was under Saban he played a great deal on the left. In 05 and 06 under Saban he had 25.5 total sacks 2 INT 21 PDs and 13 FFs.
Saban mostly ran a 3-4 in Miami though, and Taylor played mostly from the outside linebacker position. Maybe he played some strongside linebacker, but I don't think he played 3-4 DE very often. Maybe I'm just misremembering.
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Old 07-21-2008, 05:55 PM    (permalink
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Sounds like a good trade for both teams as long as Taylor doesn't become an actor right away and plays longer than 1 more season. From a Cowboys perspective just as we lose Strahan in the division we get Jason Taylor lol.
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Old 07-21-2008, 05:58 PM    (permalink
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Saban mostly ran a 3-4 in Miami though, and Taylor played mostly from the outside linebacker position. Maybe he played some strongside linebacker, but I don't think he played 3-4 DE very often. Maybe I'm just misremembering.
He probably came up to the line and put his hand in the dirt occasionally making it a somewhat modded 4-3.
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Old 07-21-2008, 07:58 PM    (permalink
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Jason Taylor approves of the transaction. HAHAAHA
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Old 07-21-2008, 08:26 PM    (permalink
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we don't know that yet is all im saying. we haven't seen him play strongside ever in his entire career.

ask anyone who's played the position, playing strongside DE and weakside are 2 different worlds. just bc he was stoute against the run as a RE by no means indicates he'll do the same on the strongside with a bigger stronger RT and a TE moving him out of the way.

if i were to guess, id say he'll be solid still, but its just speculating at this point. however, he'd defy the odds by being great against the run in that role.


Yep. Take it from me, someone's who has played DE. There is a world of difference between strong and weak. I know this mainly because my first year I just played RDE. I didn't move no matter how the formations went. It's not at all the same. Normally the RT is a bigger and stronger then on the other side, so if he gets locked in on you, then you get the TE pushing, and it's really not easy. Then the most frustrating thing is... when and if you get by these guys, sometimes there's even a RB waiting to cut you down.
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Old 07-21-2008, 08:43 PM    (permalink
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Yeah I am just tripping.
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Old 07-21-2008, 10:21 PM    (permalink
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Yep. Take it from me, someone's who has played DE. There is a world of difference between strong and weak. I know this mainly because my first year I just played RDE. I didn't move no matter how the formations went. It's not at all the same. Normally the RT is a bigger and stronger then on the other side, so if he gets locked in on you, then you get the TE pushing, and it's really not easy. Then the most frustrating thing is... when and if you get by these guys, sometimes there's even a RB waiting to cut you down.
Yup! That's why at 245 lb he needs to bulk up if he plans on doing some damage in the NFC East. 245 plus a RT and TE combo or chipping will get himself owned.
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Old 07-21-2008, 11:49 PM    (permalink
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I wonder what number Taylor will wear. I think Carter is 99?
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Old 07-21-2008, 11:57 PM    (permalink
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Yeah but the avg. fan doesn't know it. They think DE is DE, right or left, same stuff, and if the guy is a stud, he will be a stud no matter what.

But put a 245 lb guy at DE in a 4-3 strongside, and then a TE and RT will own the ever living piss out of that DE. That's what makes Strahan's accomplishments special.
Taylor is 255, and for a comparison, Kampman is 265. I don't think Taylor will struggle as much if the Skins put a good scheme, just like the one he played under Jim Bates.
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Old 07-22-2008, 12:50 AM    (permalink
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Yup! That's why at 245 lb he needs to bulk up if he plans on doing some damage in the NFC East. 245 plus a RT and TE combo or chipping will get himself owned.
Robert Mathis plays LDE and is listed at 245. Granted he's closer to the ground being 6' 1.5", as opposed to the much taller Taylor at around 6' 6".
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Old 07-22-2008, 08:32 AM    (permalink
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Taylor is 255, and for a comparison, Kampman is 265. I don't think Taylor will struggle as much if the Skins put a good scheme, just like the one he played under Jim Bates.
Taylor is listed at 255, but he has said himself he's never been heavier than 245, and has played at 235 most of his career.

Kampman is a legit 265.
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Old 07-22-2008, 08:33 AM    (permalink
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Robert Mathis plays LDE and is listed at 245. Granted he's closer to the ground being 6' 1.5", as opposed to the much taller Taylor at around 6' 6".
Mathis isn't going to be mistaken for Reggie White in the run game anytime soon though. Thats the issue at hand. I have a feeling Taylor figures it out, but im just saying, its no guarantee.
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Old 07-22-2008, 09:01 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by 703SKINS202 View Post
True but the NFC East is the best division in football we put 3 in last year and it can happen again . Plus, its not set in stone that the Giants and Cowboys will finish ahead of the Eagles and Redskins, anything can happen its just ludicrous to mock the redskins as a poor football team which they are clearly not.
I think we are going to have to wait to find out the effect Gibbs leaving will have. Just maybe you are a very mediocre football team that had a HC who got the most out of his players and without Gibbs you'll return to mediocrity.
Maybe Washington fans don't realize what a fine job Gibbs did with a rather mediocre football team.
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Old 07-22-2008, 09:03 AM    (permalink
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I will say though under Zorn the offense is going to be so much more wide open, however you are right, Gibbs was the ultimate motivator, a players coach. He was like a father to all the players so all of them wanted to do their best, however Zorn is a different kind of players coach, he's like a player out there. He keeps the mood fun, he has brought in a bunch of weird devices and he is just as excited as any player, so we will see how it works out.
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Old 07-22-2008, 09:54 AM    (permalink
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I wonder what number Taylor will wear. I think Carter is 99?
55, sorry for the big pic. He chose 55 most likely because his boy Zach Thomas is 55 also.

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Old 07-22-2008, 11:05 AM    (permalink
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I think we are going to have to wait to find out the effect Gibbs leaving will have. Just maybe you are a very mediocre football team that had a HC who got the most out of his players and without Gibbs you'll return to mediocrity.
Maybe Washington fans don't realize what a fine job Gibbs did with a rather mediocre football team.
We were mediocore with gibbs and his handcuffed offense
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Old 07-22-2008, 11:44 AM    (permalink
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Who do the skins have playing RE, and why don't they line him up over there where most of the elite pass-rushers are? I thought they were pretty think at DE in general after injuries so I don't understand putting him on the left.
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