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Old 07-21-2008, 07:42 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MetSox17 View Post
No.

Reggie Bush can actually catch the ball. He's actually better than Hester in just about anything you can think of not named "returning".

Besides, if Hester gets clocked out on a return and he's out for 5 weeks, no biggie. He's your 4th WR at best, and a KR earning peanuts, compared to Bush.
If Hester is out for 5 weeks, the Bears could say bye to the amazing field position he gets them. Whether it be by punting away from him or Hester sheerly taking it the distance it gives much needed field position to a questionable offense. And I'm not sure if I could see the Bears offense driving 75-80 yards on a regular basis otherwise.
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Old 07-21-2008, 07:42 PM    (permalink
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Well i guess you can say that about a lot of players. Reggie Bush is a poor mans Brian Westbrook though. Devin Hester is Dante Hall tht doesn't fall off the face of the earth
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Old 07-21-2008, 07:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MetSox17 View Post
Well i guess you can say that about a lot of players. Reggie Bush is a poor mans Brian Westbrook though. Devin Hester is Dante Hall tht doesn't fall off the face of the earth
Yeah I could agree with that haha./
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Old 07-21-2008, 08:06 PM    (permalink
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MetSox, you weren't around at the time, but Reggie Bush received by far the most hype of anyone I have ever seen on these forums. A lot of posters(myself included) may tend to be a little bit harsh on him because of that. Seriously though, you don't grasp the sheer kind of dickriding that went on in his favor. Someone said he would be better than Faulk. I said that was ridiculous and someone thought I was being unreasonable. People thought it was absolutely disgusting, a terrible insult of epic proportions towards Bush to say he'd be a rich man's Brian Westbrook. People here expected him to light the world on fire. And he has not. Not by any stretch. If he was so good, he'd be the best runningback on his team. If he was so good, he would average 4 ypc(especially with all the players around him) at some point. He simply is not very good at this point in his career, and at his position, it gets less and less likely he'll turn it around.
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Old 07-21-2008, 08:08 PM    (permalink
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I think this is a very bad move for the Giants.
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Old 07-21-2008, 09:13 PM    (permalink
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I think we're gonna see a much more opened up New York offense this year. You have the emergence of Manning and Steve Smith in the playoffs last season, plus the drafting of Mario Manningham (plus there's Sinorice Moss for depth, too). Also, spreading the defense out is only going to help create cutback lanes and more space for mighty might Ahmad Bradshaw.

Also, if Reggie Bush can't pull off 4 yards per carry next year, then he never will. Getting Shockey is essentially getting a lead blocking fullback plus a dominant inside receiver in the same player. Things should really open up (even more) for the New Orleans offense. They'll be downright scary next year.
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Old 07-21-2008, 10:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CutlerChris View Post
MetSox, you weren't around at the time, but Reggie Bush received by far the most hype of anyone I have ever seen on these forums. A lot of posters(myself included) may tend to be a little bit harsh on him because of that. Seriously though, you don't grasp the sheer kind of dickriding that went on in his favor. Someone said he would be better than Faulk. I said that was ridiculous and someone thought I was being unreasonable. People thought it was absolutely disgusting, a terrible insult of epic proportions towards Bush to say he'd be a rich man's Brian Westbrook. People here expected him to light the world on fire. And he has not. Not by any stretch. If he was so good, he'd be the best runningback on his team. If he was so good, he would average 4 ypc(especially with all the players around him) at some point. He simply is not very good at this point in his career, and at his position, it gets less and less likely he'll turn it around.


Well said that's exactly how I feel in regards to Bush.

But if he does plan to run to the outside Shockey will surely seal that edge. If anything, our running game will certainly miss him.
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Old 07-21-2008, 10:15 PM    (permalink
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Well i guess you can say that about a lot of players. Reggie Bush is a poor mans Brian Westbrook though. Devin Hester is Dante Hall tht doesn't fall off the face of the earth
This had me rolling.

Shockey is a perfect fit for the Saints; Drew certainly knows how to get the ball to a TE.
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Old 07-21-2008, 10:19 PM    (permalink
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I think Shockey can add another dimension to the Saints' offense and I think they will be in the NFC Championship game and have thought so since before this trade. But Shockey is very injury prone and a 2nd + a 5th rounder will be way too much if Shockey keeps getting hurt. I think they'll get a good year out of Shockey this year though so it won't be a "bad trade" for either side.
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Old 07-21-2008, 10:24 PM    (permalink
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I think Shockey can add another dimension to the Saints' offense and I think they will be in the NFC Championship game and have thought so since before this trade. But Shockey is very injury prone and a 2nd + a 5th rounder will be way too much if Shockey keeps getting hurt. I think they'll get a good year out of Shockey this year though so it won't be a "bad trade" for either side.
I agree. Depends on how healthy he can stay. I also like that 2nd rounder now. We have good luck with second rounders for the most part.. Strahan, Toomer, Tiki, Osi, Smith, and Snee are some of the ones we struck gold with. Hopefully it continues.
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Old 07-21-2008, 10:31 PM    (permalink
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One thing in all of this is that I have full trust in coach Pope. He is one of the elite TE coaches in the league, if not the best. I trust him to continue to mold Boss. When Shockey got into this league, blocking certainly was a weak point for him. And over time he became one of the better blocking TEs in the league.
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Old 07-21-2008, 10:54 PM    (permalink
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I think this move definitely helps the Saints offense, which to be honest doesn't need a whole lot of help as it is already quite a proficient unit. One just has to wonder if adding more offensive fire power isn't going to hinder that defense which is still porous as a unit and relatively untested.
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Old 07-21-2008, 11:13 PM    (permalink
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It should help them, they're already hinging their success on firepower.

Awesome Avatar btw.
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Old 07-22-2008, 12:28 AM    (permalink
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Somehow this turned into a Reggie Bush discussion again .. :/
You're surprised?! Lawlz.
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Old 07-22-2008, 12:32 AM    (permalink
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Vilma and Shockey in one offseason? :o

Championship.
only got this far...but its not gunna happen...with the way the NFC South goes...Atlanta is winning the division next year
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Old 07-22-2008, 12:32 AM    (permalink
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Hey, I just thought of something!
Shockey+Manning=Shocking has to change his name to...................
Jeremy+Drew=Jew
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Old 07-22-2008, 01:41 AM    (permalink
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or Manning+Manningham=Manning or Manningham
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Old 07-22-2008, 02:27 AM    (permalink
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MetSox, you weren't around at the time, but Reggie Bush received by far the most hype of anyone I have ever seen on these forums. A lot of posters(myself included) may tend to be a little bit harsh on him because of that. Seriously though, you don't grasp the sheer kind of dickriding that went on in his favor. Someone said he would be better than Faulk. I said that was ridiculous and someone thought I was being unreasonable. People thought it was absolutely disgusting, a terrible insult of epic proportions towards Bush to say he'd be a rich man's Brian Westbrook. People here expected him to light the world on fire. And he has not. Not by any stretch. If he was so good, he'd be the best runningback on his team. If he was so good, he would average 4 ypc(especially with all the players around him) at some point. He simply is not very good at this point in his career, and at his position, it gets less and less likely he'll turn it around.
I apologize if i seem like a person with normal reasoning. That, of course, sheds light on me understanding why there's so much Reggie Bush hate. Before i discovered this forum, i've had countless of arguments with my best friend over a variety of things.. one being Reggie Bush. I always preached the Texans passing on him, but not because i figured he would be a bust. I just didn't trust him working the load of the carries as a normal running-back, and at that time i felt the Texans were already set at positions where he could help. But anyway, that's a whole different argument.

I saw all the hype that was created around him, and the fact that he played in Hollywood.

In comparison to the hype that was created, according to you here specifically, yes i can see where you can argue that he has performed no where near his hype. BUT, that is comparing it to the idiots that were thinking he was gonna be the next coming of Jordy Nelson. For me, he has done enough to keep hope for him becoming a special player. I never expected him to rush for 1500 yards, therefore i'm not disappointed by him not doing so. Understand me? That's why i defend him.
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Old 07-22-2008, 02:28 AM    (permalink
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This had me rolling.
How so? Like "hah, MetSox, you sure are a funny guy", or "you can't be serious"?
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Old 07-22-2008, 02:37 AM    (permalink
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Put Bush in a WCO and you got yourself the god he was supposed to be. WCO is made for RBs like Marshal Faulk, Brian Westbrook and Reggie Bush (even though he isn't deserving of being in a sentence with those 2).
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Old 07-22-2008, 07:55 AM    (permalink
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One thing in all of this is that I have full trust in coach Pope. He is one of the elite TE coaches in the league, if not the best. I trust him to continue to mold Boss. When Shockey got into this league, blocking certainly was a weak point for him. And over time he became one of the better blocking TEs in the league.
im assuming they will change up our run blocking schemes a little bit this year to accommodate for Boss's learning curve. maybe its just blind faith, but i have a hunch that Boss will be a much improved blocker this year. last year he came in at 245, then got up to 270 with some jiggle in his belly. this year he came to minicamp a solid 272 all muscle. so he's definitely big and strong enough to block, now its a matter of technique.

i think he'll make big strides in training camp.


As far as his ability in the pass game, he'll never be Shockey. he's not fast enough to stretch the seam, plain and simple. however, i expect him to be a much better route runner, and have more reliable hands than Shockey. be more of a checkdown guy. and thats good enough in our scheme.

this means more balls will go to Steve Smith, and Im perfectly fine with that. Steve Smith is gonna have a very good year, mark it down.
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Old 07-22-2008, 08:59 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
im assuming they will change up our run blocking schemes a little bit this year to accommodate for Boss's learning curve. maybe its just blind faith, but i have a hunch that Boss will be a much improved blocker this year. last year he came in at 245, then got up to 270 with some jiggle in his belly. this year he came to minicamp a solid 272 all muscle. so he's definitely big and strong enough to block, now its a matter of technique.

i think he'll make big strides in training camp.


As far as his ability in the pass game, he'll never be Shockey. he's not fast enough to stretch the seam, plain and simple. however, i expect him to be a much better route runner, and have more reliable hands than Shockey. be more of a checkdown guy. and thats good enough in our scheme.

this means more balls will go to Steve Smith, and Im perfectly fine with that. Steve Smith is gonna have a very good year, mark it down.

We didn't during the playoffs. Who knows if we changed it up maybe we could have gotten Jacobs going during the playoffs.. I will wait and see before I comment on it, but pre season should be a good forum to see if Gilbride is installing anything new or seeing how the TEs does.
I would rather us be in a more run and shoot type offense. Perhaps run in a 4 wide set. Make teams get in the Dime and Nickel, and then try to stop Jacobs, Bradshaw, and Ward that way.
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:06 AM    (permalink
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Let me clear up this trade a bit. This is what I understand it to be.

http://www.giantsfootballblog.com/20...ing-to-giants/

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Earlier this evening, Brian Bassett of The Jets Blog noted that the New Orleans Saints traded a second-round pick in 2009 to the Giants in the Jeremy Shockey deal, but the pick also could potentially belong to the New York Jets.

An ESPN report had this to say about how the Saints and Jets deal went down earlier this offseason…

Jonathan Vilma, was traded to the New Orleans Saints on Friday for a conditional fourth-round choice. The Jets could receive a second- or third-round pick in 2009 depending on how much Vilma plays and if he signs a contract extension. Talks have not started on a contract extension for Vilma, who is entering the final year of his rookie deal.

According to Newsday’s Tom Rock, the Jets will receive the Saints second-round pick in 2009 if Jonathan Vilma signs a contract extension and plays more than 85% of the defensive snaps and for the team this upcoming season. If the criteria is not met, the Jets will then receive a third-round pick and the Giants will get their original second and fifth-round picks. Now if the Jets do receive the Saints second-round pick in 2009, the original Shockey trade changes and the Giants will then receive a 2010 first-round draft pick, rather than a second and fifth-round pick in 2009.
Rock’s source tells him…

“That’s not going to happen because the Saints hold all the cards, and they’re not going to just give away that first rounder when they really don’t have to.”

It’s been speculated that Vilma, a fellow University of Miami product, was one of the players who was in Shockey’s ear, trying to lure him to the Saints during this summer. If that’s the case (and we’re not saying it is since that would probably be some type of tampering), Vilma may have recruited his way out of a new contract in New Orleans — at least until after free agency opens up.

Many have called the Shockey trade a win-win deal. The only loser appears to be the Jets, who will undoubtedly see their potential second-round price tag for Vilma shrink to a third.

To sum it all up, the Giants fans want to see linebacker Jonathan Vilma play 85% of the snaps and sign a contract extension this season. If that happens, the Jets will then receive the 2009 second-round pick, leading to the Giants receiving the Saints first-round pick.
Basically depending on how much Vilma plays, and if he signs a contract extention, the Jets would get the Saints second round pick and the Giants would get their first.
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:07 AM    (permalink
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MetSox, you weren't around at the time, but Reggie Bush received by far the most hype of anyone I have ever seen on these forums. A lot of posters(myself included) may tend to be a little bit harsh on him because of that. Seriously though, you don't grasp the sheer kind of dickriding that went on in his favor. Someone said he would be better than Faulk. I said that was ridiculous and someone thought I was being unreasonable. People thought it was absolutely disgusting, a terrible insult of epic proportions towards Bush to say he'd be a rich man's Brian Westbrook. People here expected him to light the world on fire. And he has not. Not by any stretch. If he was so good, he'd be the best runningback on his team. If he was so good, he would average 4 ypc(especially with all the players around him) at some point. He simply is not very good at this point in his career, and at his position, it gets less and less likely he'll turn it around.
Maybe he should switch to WR and that might turn it around?
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:18 AM    (permalink
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Maybe he should switch to WR and that might turn it around?
I've been saying that that's what he should have been all along. Even going back to college. He's always been a wide receiver playing tailback. I always envisioned him being a Steve Smith type of flanker - get him the ball in space on bubble screens and underneath routes and let him rack up yardage after the catch.
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