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Old 07-26-2008, 02:17 AM    (permalink
BlindSite
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Originally Posted by Geo View Post
I thought I read that S-Jax was representing himself, after his agent fired him.

Maybe he hired a new agent since then.
Isn't that the other way round?

Jon Beason dumped his agent almost straight away after he signed his rookie deal. He kept instructing his agent to get a deal done by any means and his agent kept stonewalling Carolina's FO.

Funny how sometimes its the agents pulling the strings to screw things up and the player cops all the hate.
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Old 07-26-2008, 02:23 AM    (permalink
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That's a big reason so many agents get fired now-a-days. Their employer lets them know what to do, and they pull their strings behind closed doors, and all to fatten up THEIR wallet some more. Drew Rosenhaus gets so much hate from the media, but he's honestly one of the best agents out there, because he does what's best for his player first and foremost.
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Old 07-26-2008, 04:43 AM    (permalink
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Isn't that the other way round?

Jon Beason dumped his agent almost straight away after he signed his rookie deal. He kept instructing his agent to get a deal done by any means and his agent kept stonewalling Carolina's FO.

Funny how sometimes its the agents pulling the strings to screw things up and the player cops all the hate.
no there was this article that said the Agent just dumped SJax
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Old 07-28-2008, 08:46 AM    (permalink
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Steven Jackson turned down the Rams long term offer, so this hold out could take a while.
Who is the other RB then?
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Old 07-28-2008, 08:49 AM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
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Brian Leonard, duhhhh
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Old 07-28-2008, 08:55 AM    (permalink
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Brian Leonard, duhhhh
I thought he was their FB. They have no other RBs then? I don't mind seeing BL play then.
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Old 07-28-2008, 09:37 AM    (permalink
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BRIAN LEONARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!1

you all know he's gonna set the single season rushing record.

in week 1.

but he'll take a week off to show respect to the Giants afterwards, because he's that great of a person. He'll be all like: You guys are the Super Bowl Champs, congrats! As a reward, you don't have to face me"
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 07-28-2008, 10:45 AM    (permalink
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BRIAN LEONARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!1

you all know he's gonna set the single season rushing record.

in week 1.

but he'll take a week off to show respect to the Giants afterwards, because he's that great of a person. He'll be all like: You guys are the Super Bowl Champs, congrats! As a reward, you don't have to face me"
scarlet isn't a usable color, red is.
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:04 AM    (permalink
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scarlet isn't a usable color, red is.
LIES!!!!!!!!! I write in scarlet!!!!!!!!
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:06 AM    (permalink
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Well looks like Grant as well thinks he is worth more and has proven more then what he is getting paid, another hold out player.
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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Well looks like Grant as well thinks he is worth more and has proven more then what he is getting paid, another hold out player.
He's proven more than he's paid(considering he's getting paid like a 3rd stringer/PS guy) but he shouldn't be holding out, and he definately shouldn't have high demands(I don't know what he's asking/demanding, but I'm willing to bet it's more than he's worth)
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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He's proven more than he's paid(considering he's getting paid like a 3rd stringer/PS guy) but he shouldn't be holding out, and he definately shouldn't have high demands(I don't know what he's asking/demanding, but I'm willing to bet it's more than he's worth)
I would like to see him play a full year now, and duplicate those results before paying him. I wonder how long he will hold out.
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:42 AM    (permalink
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I would like to see him play a full year now, and duplicate those results before paying him. I wonder how long he will hold out.
Oh, me too obviously. Especially if I was a Packers fan. He's got talent, no doubt. I think based on last year, he deserves a bit of a raise, but holdout status? no way
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 07-28-2008, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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The thing with Grant is that they can't fine him for missing camp, so there's absolutely no incentive for him to show up to camp at all. If I were him I would hold out until at least week 3 of the preseason, if not all the way to week 1.
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Old 07-28-2008, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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Grant can't show up until they agree on a contract.
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Old 07-28-2008, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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Grant can't show up until they agree on a contract.
He was at the OTAs but didn't run drills or practice with the team. He can show up and care for the team, but isn't.
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Old 07-28-2008, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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He was at the OTAs but didn't run drills or practice with the team. He can show up and care for the team, but isn't.
He doesn't have a contract, the same reason unsigned rookies can't show up. The ball is almost entirely in his court. They can't fine him for not showing up and they can't get him into practice either.
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Old 07-28-2008, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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A recent post of mine on Grant in the Packers forum, I'll share it here:

Unless they are some serious roster bonuses involved, that's a joke. And even then it's bush league for a signing bonus that small with an extension that long, give me a break.

Not that I am ardently advocating locking up Grant now, I'm not really siding with one option or another. If I had to pick something, I'd say let him play out his ERFA tender of $370K this season, and if he repeats his great play from last year, then next offseason would be time to pay him. If we're treating Grant as a second-year pro, I believe that is what he currently is in terms of accrued NFL seasons, then normally you don't tear up a rookie contract after the first season even if the guy is a Pro Bowl-caliber starter. You do it after the second year, see Marques Colston and Devin Hester who both signed extensions recently.

Now yes, Earnest Graham signed a 4-year/11M contract this offseason. And maybe the Packers and Grant should do the same, although if Grant is the starting runningback for a few seasons, then he could arguably be underpaid. Two summers ago Chester Taylor signed a 4-yr/14M contract with the Vikings as a free agent, when he was planned to be their new starting runningback. However Graham is in his fourth season now and Taylor was in his fifth season then, it's just that those guys hadn't won the starting job early like Grant has as a rookie.

I do understand Grant wants to get paid something now, when he has the chance. He came into the league without even a drafted rookie's contract, will be 26 this December, and he's three years away from being an unrestricted free agent. Looking back on some of his performance this season, I wonder if the Giants didn't trade away their best runningback on the roster for a 6th round pick. He's a great fit for the Packers' scheme and can break a big run on anyone. That 5-yards-plus average last year was for real, he looked like he was going for 5 just about every time he touched the ball.

If Brett Favre is gone, then the Packers definitely need Ryan Grant back and ready to carry more of the load this season, to help shield some of the pressure from new starter Aaron Rodgers. Either tell him to play out this season to get paid for real, or throw him a bone of a bonus for this year (and next), whatever. Neither Brandon Jackson nor DeShawn Wynn can do what Grant does, he's much more of an effective slasher and home run threat which pairs perfectly with their athletic offensive line.
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Old 07-28-2008, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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He doesn't have a contract, the same reason unsigned rookies can't show up. The ball is almost entirely in his court. They can't fine him for not showing up and they can't get him into practice either.
You couldn't be more wrong. I already responded on this whole issue and to Geo's post in the Green Bay Packers Discussion thread.
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Old 07-28-2008, 01:07 PM    (permalink
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The ball is in Grant's court if he is actually serious about sitting out a season, which doesn't make sense as he needs to play and get paid. If the ball is in his court, and he does that, he's not walking away a winner.

Plus the Packers will probably pay him if he continues to play as well, they will just want to make sure he can do well without Favre.
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Old 07-28-2008, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Geo View Post
The ball is in Grant's court if he is actually serious about sitting out a season, which doesn't make sense as he needs to play and get paid. If the ball is in his court, and he does that, he's not walking away a winner.

Plus the Packers will probably pay him if he continues to play as well, they will just want to make sure he can do well without Favre.
That's the biggest key is to see if he can play well without Favre. Maybe it is a smart move on his part, perhaps his agent told him now is the time to strike, just in case you can't duplicate those #s without Favre.
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Old 07-28-2008, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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The ball is in Grant's court if he is actually serious about sitting out a season, which doesn't make sense as he needs to play and get paid. If the ball is in his court, and he does that, he's not walking away a winner.

Plus the Packers will probably pay him if he continues to play as well, they will just want to make sure he can do well without Favre.
There's no way Grant sits out the season. No matter how upset he gets he'll play. I'd rather have him happy to play here, but I'm not the least bit worried of him not playing for us. Like you said he needs to play to get paid, but more importantly he needs to play to become a free agent. Sitting out for him does the opposite of what he wants. Grant needs two more years of service before he can become an unrestricted free agent. If he sits out that doesn't count as a year of service. So he would not only lose playing the 2008 season, but then he'd still have the two years to go. The only way he can get those two seasons of service time is by playing for the Packers. His options are:

1) Sign the extension we're offering (which is actually a fair deal despite what people are saying)

2) Play out the 2008 and 2009 seasons with the Packers and then become an unrestricted free agent and sign with whoever.

3) End his NFL career and find a real job.

He's got nothing.
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Old 07-28-2008, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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Here were my responses to Geo's posts
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Unless they are some serious roster bonuses involved, that's a joke. And even then it's bush league for a signing bonus that small with an extension that long, give me a break.
That's not at all a joke, that's right where it should be. As an exclusive rights free agent Grant has no leverage, it all belongs to us. We'll probably add some as negotiations move on, but not a whole lot.
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Not that I am ardently advocating locking up Grant now, I'm not really siding with one option or another. If I had to pick something, I'd say let him play out his ERFA tender of $370K this season, and if he repeats his great play from last year, then next offseason would be time to pay him.
Grant is the one that doesn't want to do that. We offered him the tender he didn't sign it because he wanted an extension.
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If we're treating Grant as a rookie, I believe that is what he is in terms of accrued NFL seasons, then normally you don't tear up a rookie contract after the first season even if the guy is a Pro Bowl-caliber starter. You do it after the second year, see Marques Colston and Devin Hester who both signed extensions recently.
He's not a rookie he's an exclusive rights free agent. Completely different situations.
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Now yes, Earnest Graham signed a 4-year/11M contract this offseason.
Bingo. That's where you should be looking if you want to compare. Graham was in a situation very similar to Grant and had a kind of similar season stat wise. Guess how much guarenteed money Graham got. 0, none, nothing. $1.75 for Grant is not a joke it's perfect. I'd expect the total for this proposed deal to be around $20 million, which while it sounds low it's exactly where it should be.

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Two summers ago Chester Taylor signed a 4-yr/14M contract with the Vikings as a free agent, when he was planned to be their new starting runningback.
Chester Taylor was a free agent. He could sign with any team in the NFL, Grant can only sign with the Packers just like Graham could only sign with Tampa.

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I do understand Grant wants to get paid something now, when he has the chance. He came into the league without even a drafted rookie's contract, will be 26 this December, and he's three years away from being an unrestricted free agent. Looking back on some of his performance this season, I wonder if the Giants didn't trade away their best runningback on the roster for a 6th round pick. He's a great fit for the Packers' scheme and can break a big run on anyone. That 5-yards-plus average last year was for real, he looked like he was going for 5 just about every time he touched the ball.
I agree with pretty much everything you said there. And yes I'm well aware that Grant wants to get a big pay day and this might be his only chance, but unfourtunately for him he's in no position to get that.

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If Brett Favre is gone, then the Packers definitely need Ryan Grant back and ready to carry more of the load this season
Grant is going to be playing for the Packers this season no matter what. It's just a matter if he's happy about it or not. If we get to the start of the season with no long term deal worked out he will sign the ERFA tender. He's not going to hold out because that hurts him way more than it'd help.

He should take what we're offering and then earn more through performance. If he plays well we will extend his contract or increase his salary. We've done it multiple times for Donald Driver, and have done it with our tackles and other players. Right now he can't get much, but if he gives us some good seasons we'll redo his contract in a couple years.

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A 1.75M signing bonus for a 6-year extension is the epitome of a joke, get real.
Absolutely not. You're failing to realize the difference between UFAs and ERFAa and there is a huge difference. You can't look at say Michael Turner who got $15 guarenteed for 6 years or Jamal Lewis who got $10 guarenteed for 3 years and compare them to Grant because they are two completely different situations. He has to be compared to other ERFAs like Graham and Willie Parker. Graham as I previously stated got 4 year and 0 guarenteed. Parker got a 4 year 13.6 million dollar total deal, I couldn't find the exact details on how much was guarenteed but I'm sure it was very little.
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Old 07-28-2008, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shockey+Manning=Shocking View Post
That's the biggest key is to see if he can play well without Favre. Maybe it is a smart move on his part, perhaps his agent told him now is the time to strike, just in case you can't duplicate those #s without Favre.
His 5.1 ypc will fall a bit, but I think Grant can still run strong with Rodgers at QB. Even if you respect the run more than the pass, if the Packers continue to throw some multiple receiver sets out there, you can't let Driver/Jennings/Jones run free. Add in receivers who run-block, which I'm sure new addition Jordy Nelson will also do, and an athletic offensive line that can open up some holes, and I think Grant can have a great season.
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Old 07-28-2008, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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His 5.1 ypc will fall a bit, but I think Grant can still run strong with Rodgers at QB. Even if you respect the run more than the pass, if the Packers continue to throw some multiple receiver sets out there, you can't let Driver/Jennings/Jones run free. Add in receivers who run-block, which I'm sure new addition Jordy Nelson will also do, and an athletic offensive line that can open up some holes, and I think Grant can have a great season.

Yeah, it depends though on how AR does. I can see teams trying to stop him, and then let AR beat you. I want to see how he can play, AR I am talking about, on a consistent basis, and then evaluate their formations, and types of plays they run. I saw via my breakdown with Favre there, but I want to see now what they keep and what they add without Brett.

But I wouldn't say he will have a great year, until I see him play. Teams can now see tape of him, and factor in a inexperienced QB, I want to see the same success before I form an opinion. He does have a great OL, and a very creative OC who has very good drawn up plays, so that will help. It will be interesting to see him play though. I, for one, will be watch carefully.
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