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Old 07-28-2008, 07:06 AM    (permalink
Smooth Criminal
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I'd put both Jacksonville and Pittsburgh above Green Bay. I don't think Aaron Rodgers will make that team the #6 team in the league.
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Old 07-28-2008, 08:00 AM    (permalink
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I understand the Pats were a more talented team, but not better as they didn't, you know, beat us and stuff. People are acting although the Giants got analy raped by the offseason. Gibril, wasn't all that good, seriously. Grabbing the best safety in the draft in Phillips offsets that easily(Phillips has been nuts thus far in camp, granted it's like 2 days, but stll...) Mitchell, yea he was pretty good for us, but honestly, does anyone here honestly believe Mitchell is that good? or hard to replace? watching him all year, I can safely say, he isn't. We also get Kiwi back, which is a major plus. Now, the two biggest losses:
Shockey- he is hurt alot, but a ridiculous talent. traded him at the wrong time, but he needed to go. Alot rides on Boss(who I'm still not sure of. He needs to prove himself to real Giants fans, not the ones who are like: Tyree and Boss are lyke top 5!!!!!!!)

Strahan- I cried when this happened. Knew it was coming, but still. Can't' replace a HOF talent like this. Excellent pass rusher and elite run stopper. just so damn good. I don't care how Tuck is(he also needs to prove himself as a starter) Stray will be sorely missed.

So the Giants lost basically Strahan andShockey. If Boss plays well enough, the Shockey deal for us will have paid off in full.

And don't give me the Reggie Torbor is gone ****, he wasn't you know, good or anything.

So while the Giants may not be the flashy elite team in everyone's eyes, we're still the reigning champs. But that's fine, we didn't get respect all year, hell after the game it was how the Patriots choked. Granted I'm homer numero uno on these boards(especially RU) but I didn't see it as THAT big an upset.
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Old 07-28-2008, 08:35 AM    (permalink
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Same thing happened to the Steelers in 05. They came from no where and won the superbowl. No one gave them credit as the best team in the offseason.

And they proved everyone right by not making the playoffs.

Its a whole new season. The Giants winning the superbowl should have absolutely no effect on what they're ranked at the start of this year.
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Old 07-28-2008, 09:38 AM    (permalink
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Same thing happened to the Steelers in 05. They came from no where and won the superbowl. No one gave them credit as the best team in the offseason.

And they proved everyone right by not making the playoffs.

Its a whole new season. The Giants winning the superbowl should have absolutely no effect on what they're ranked at the start of this year.
Sure it should. As of now, they are the best team. They are the champs. They're the best until someone knocks them off. That's how I see it.

Now if it's a list based on overall talent, then no, the shouldn't be at the top or have any effect on last year
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Old 07-28-2008, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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Sure it should. As of now, they are the best team. They are the champs. They're the best until someone knocks them off. That's how I see it.

Now if it's a list based on overall talent, then no, the shouldn't be at the top or have any effect on last year
The best team doesn't always win the Super Bowl. The Giants were hot at the right time and won a close game. If you replay that game ten times, the Patriots are going to win it more often than not in my opinion. Hence, they are the better team.

Would I claim to be a better shooter than Michael Jordan if we each took three shots and I made all of them and he made two? Of course not because he has proven he's a better shooter than me over a much larger sample size.
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:09 AM    (permalink
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The best team doesn't always win the Super Bowl. The Giants were hot at the right time and won a close game. If you replay that game ten times, the Patriots are going to win it more often than not in my opinion. Hence, they are the better team.

Would I claim to be a better shooter than Michael Jordan if we each took three shots and I made all of them and he made two? Of course not because he has proven he's a better shooter than me over a much larger sample size.
How would you know that? How do you know the Giants wouldn't constantly abuse the Pats O-Line?

And were the Patriots really that much better over a larger sample size? Beating the Giants, by 3, in the last game of the season which meant nothing? I see what you're trying to say, but your example is off. There's obviously a much bigger difference in the best NBA player of all time and you. Not so much with 2 NFL franchises, especially two meeting in the Super Bowl.

The Patriots were supposed to win it, they didn't. The Giants beat them, making them better and the champs. And is getting hot at the right time not good then? is it not clutch? or being good? Did the Giants being hot equal them being lucky throughout the whole postseason? Getting hot at the right time is playing well, not "just getting hot". The Giants won, thus making them the best team.

Again, most talented? certainly not. But best? yes, and their 10 table rings and lombardi trophy are evidence of that. There's a distinction of being the best, and being the most talented.
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:13 AM    (permalink
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I understand the Pats were a more talented team, but not better as they didn't, you know, beat us and stuff. People are acting although the Giants got analy raped by the offseason. Gibril, wasn't all that good, seriously. Grabbing the best safety in the draft in Phillips offsets that easily(Phillips has been nuts thus far in camp, granted it's like 2 days, but stll...) Mitchell, yea he was pretty good for us, but honestly, does anyone here honestly believe Mitchell is that good? or hard to replace? watching him all year, I can safely say, he isn't. We also get Kiwi back, which is a major plus. Now, the two biggest losses:
Shockey- he is hurt alot, but a ridiculous talent. traded him at the wrong time, but he needed to go. Alot rides on Boss(who I'm still not sure of. He needs to prove himself to real Giants fans, not the ones who are like: Tyree and Boss are lyke top 5!!!!!!!)
The Pats are absolutely a better team than the Giants, and I really don't know how you could argue it any other way. The best team in the league doesn't win the Superbowl. It's the team that's playing the best at the end of the season. There is a huge difference.

Think about this: in 1999, the Denver Broncos went 14-2 and went on to beat the Atlanta Falcons in the Superbowl. The Broncos were steamrolling and had a 13-0 record before going in to play the New York Giants (who finished 8-8). The Giants upset them. Were they a better team? Absolutely not. They just played better on that night.

That's what's so much better about football than other sports. You only play one game, and that leaves for so much more room for an upset. In other sports, when you play a series, the better team will win almost every single time. That's why they do them. But in football, you've got one shot, and you've gotta make it count, which the Giants did.

And also, if the Giants are a better team, then why couldn't they beat the Patriots AT HOME in week 17?
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:27 AM    (permalink
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The Pats are absolutely a better team than the Giants, and I really don't know how you could argue it any other way. The best team in the league doesn't win the Superbowl. It's the team that's playing the best at the end of the season. There is a huge difference.

Think about this: in 1999, the Denver Broncos went 14-2 and went on to beat the Atlanta Falcons in the Superbowl. The Broncos were steamrolling and had a 13-0 record before going in to play the New York Giants (who finished 8-8). The Giants upset them. Were they a better team? Absolutely not. They just played better on that night.

That's what's so much better about football than other sports. You only play one game, and that leaves for so much more room for an upset. In other sports, when you play a series, the better team will win almost every single time. That's why they do them. But in football, you've got one shot, and you've gotta make it count, which the Giants did.

And also, if the Giants are a better team, then why couldn't they beat the Patriots AT HOME in week 17?
We beat them when it counted. We're the champs, aren't we the best until we're knocked off?

Are we the best in terms of talent, no. But we won, and if the Patriots were truly the best team in the league, they would've beaten us. that's how I see it.

For the 99 Denver team, they were the best, better than the Giants, because they won the Super Bowl.
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:37 AM    (permalink
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MOTU, Blindsite, hand over the drugs kids, you are obviously STONED, if you think the Saints deserve to be 9th on this list or finish 3rd in the NFC South.
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:45 AM    (permalink
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I'm stoned.
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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MOTU, Blindsite, hand over the drugs kids, you are obviously STONED, if you think the Saints deserve to be 9th on this list or finish 3rd in the NFC South.
Saints havent proven nothing to this point but their commitment to pay
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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I find your lack of faith in the Saints disturbing.
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:59 AM    (permalink
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U sir are a homer!
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Old 07-28-2008, 07:03 PM    (permalink
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Simple question: If the Patriots and Giants played in Week 1, who would be favored to win?

In my opinion that is what power rankings are all about, and I really think the Patriots would certainly be the favorites. You can argue whether going 16-0 in the regular season and losing the Super Bowl is better or not than going 10-6 and winning the Super Bowl all you want, but I still think the Patriots should be on top of these types of lists going into the new season.
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Old 07-28-2008, 08:29 PM    (permalink
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Simple question: If the Patriots and Giants played in Week 1, who would be favored to win?

In my opinion that is what power rankings are all about, and I really think the Patriots would certainly be the favorites. You can argue whether going 16-0 in the regular season and losing the Super Bowl is better or not than going 10-6 and winning the Super Bowl all you want, but I still think the Patriots should be on top of these types of lists going into the new season.
now that's the compelling argument.

and the truth... with the personnel changes that have affected both teams, if you're going to bet on one team, you'd bet on the pats...
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Old 07-28-2008, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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id bet on the giants...i dont trust that secondary of the pats
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Old 07-28-2008, 08:53 PM    (permalink
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I think the Patriots were definitely the best team last year. There's a difference between Super Bowl winner and best team. A lot of times they are the same team, but it doesn't have to be. That is the case here. However being the best team doesn't mean ****, winning the Super Bowl is what matters.
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Old 07-28-2008, 09:15 PM    (permalink
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Half of the pat's D should be in wheelchairs. I don't think they are anything like they were last year.

Honestly, these lists that have Chargers, Pats, and Colts in the top 3 are getting old. It's been that way for the past 3 years. The same 3 teams.

Doesn't anyone want to give the NFC some respect? Maybe go out on a limb and pick the Jags over colts? Maybe the Browns supplant the Steelers this year?

So for all the predictions I've seen have been really "Espn"
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Old 07-28-2008, 09:59 PM    (permalink
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Vilma was a good addition. Ellis still has question marks and hasn't played a down in the NFL. McCray still hasnt shown anything that I'd call consistent and Randall *** is the worst cornerback starting in the division.

New orleans has had a good defensive line for the last few years and it hasn't been enough to make that defense good enough to win games. The addition of a rookie DT and an inconsistent DE who registered 3 sacks last year doesn't make it so.

signing a poor coverage cornerback in a scheme that uses Man coverage isn't a winning signing either. If that defense does anything its all because of Vilma and the DE position.

Tampa still has a more complete roster.
Our Defensive line was horrible last year. Will Smith was even quoted saying the DE's were bulked up and made to play contain last season to help stop the run. We are doing the opposite this year, as Coach O likes smaller and quicker linemen that get after the QB. Will Smith is down from about 290lbs last season, now down to 275lbs and Grant from close to 300lbs to 278lbs. Hollis Thomas also lost like 30lbs.

McCray had 10 sacks in 06. He is a very good pass rusher but needs to work on his pursuit angles. I know Coach Orgeron is working on this with him and is going to make the Saints D-Line one of the best in the league. And the Saints are going to be running a lot more zone defense this year.

And ***, Craft, David or Porter might not even be the starter opposite Mike McKenzie. CB, Usama Young in his second year in the league is having a outstanding Training Camp. He keeps making plays and Young added a lot of strength in the off season. He's using that strength to his advantage, since the only receiver not having a lot of trouble getting off the line against him is Colston. Not saying he's going to be the starter or even good but he looks great in Camp and I hope he keeps improving.

“I don’t know how a golfer feels when he gets into a zone,” Young said, “but I do know that today was a really good day.”

“He’s playing fast and confident right now and making life miserable for the receivers,” said Colston

“He’s a year older and wiser,” said Head Coach Sean Payton. “He is playing with some confidence and is improving. This is a big training camp for him.”



Young looking to breakout in 2008
http://wwl.com/Young-looking-to-brea...n-2008/2710074



I expect Ellis to be a beast also. But I can see what your saying. This "could" happen but I know Tamp Bay is proven solid on both sides of the ball.

Last edited by SaintsMan : 08-01-2008 at 04:15 PM.
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