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View Poll Results: Who is the worst of these teams?
Cincinnati Bengals 22 31.43%
Philadelphia Eagles 0 0%
Carolina Panthers 15 21.43%
Arizona Cardinals 14 20.00%
Houston Texans 5 7.14%
Buffalo Bills 4 5.71%
Tennessee Titans 4 5.71%
Washington Redskins 2 2.86%
Green Bay Packers 4 5.71%
Minnesota Vikings 0 0%
Voters: 70. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-30-2008, 10:48 AM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
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idk but doesnt being the second best defense vs 11th ranked season qualify as the better defense?
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:49 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MOTU View Post
That's semantics. Show me where the Bucs have better players than the Packers.
Better Group of Running backs, better QB, both have pretty good offensive lines so it's tough to decide, better defensive secondary, pretty similar linebackers, reasonably even defensive lines.
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:52 AM    (permalink
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idk but doesnt being the second best defense vs 11th ranked season qualify as the better defense?
Rankings don't mean much. I doubt you'll find many people that believe the Packers had only the 11th best defense in the league last season. Plus, the Packers were amoung the league leaders in points scored and point against. What does yardage really matter when you're scoring and not being scored on?
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:54 AM    (permalink
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Rankings don't mean much. I doubt you'll find many people that believe the Packers had only the 11th best defense in the league last season. Plus, the Packers were amoung the league leaders in points scored and point against. What does yardage really matter when you're scoring and not being scored on?
Why wouldn't many people believe the Packers had a top 15 defense last year? It's not an outlandish claim at all. Corey Williams, Aaron Kampman, AJ Hawk, Nick Barnett, Al Harris and Charles Woodson are a solid foundaiton for a good defense.
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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TB Bucs Pts/G allowed: 16.9
GB Packers Pts/G allowed: 18.2
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:57 AM    (permalink
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Better Group of Running backs, better QB, both have pretty good offensive lines so it's tough to decide, better defensive secondary, pretty similar linebackers, reasonably even defensive lines.
So by your estimation the Bucs are better at every position except they are even at offensive line, defensive line, and linebacker? Why didn't they do better than the Packers last season then?
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:57 AM    (permalink
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Better Group of Running backs, better QB, both have pretty good offensive lines so it's tough to decide, better defensive secondary, pretty similar linebackers, reasonably even defensive lines.
The Pack have someone of Kampman's calibur on the DL and the Bucs do not. Aside from that you've made a great point.
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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Why wouldn't many people believe the Packers had a top 15 defense last year? It's not an outlandish claim at all. Corey Williams, Aaron Kampman, AJ Hawk, Nick Barnett, Al Harris and Charles Woodson are a solid foundaiton for a good defense.
I'm saying that the Packers defense was better than the 11th defense.
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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So by your estimation the Bucs are better at every position except they are even at offensive line, defensive line, and linebacker? Why didn't they do better than the Packers last season then?
Come to think of it the Buccaneers have a better linebacker group too.

Sometimes the teams with the greatest players don't always win the big games. Just ask the Patriots. Besides, both the Pack and the Buccaneers were eliminated in the playoffs by the very same team.
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:00 AM    (permalink
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The Pack have someone of Kampman's calibur on the DL and the Bucs do not. Aside from that you've made a great point.
The talk in Tampa so far is that Gaines Adams is very ready to step up and fulfill his potential. Time will tell I guess.
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:04 AM    (permalink
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So by your estimation the Bucs are better at every position except they are even at offensive line, defensive line, and linebacker? Why didn't they do better than the Packers last season then?
Packs WR are better by a mile but thats it
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:05 AM    (permalink
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The talk in Tampa so far is that Gaines Adams is very ready to step up and fulfill his potential. Time will tell I guess.
Yeah, you're right. The Bucs are as vastly underrated as any team I can think of now.
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:07 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, you're right. The Bucs are as vastly underrated as any team I can think of now.
They are always under-rated but I can understand why really. They don't blow teams out and aren't really a hugely publicized team. They have the potential to do some damage in the NFC but they are only a couple of injuries at key positions from dropping to 3rd or worse (Maybe not worse, the Falcons are pretty bad) in the NFC South.
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Old 07-30-2008, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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Vikings don't have an offense.
Packers have a new QB that's fragile.

Bucs went to the playoffs last year.
Saints have added Vilma, Shockey, and Sedrick Ellis which should make them better than they were last year.

Neither the Bucs nor Saints fit as the 20th best team in the NFL.
I'm really high on the vikes, bills, cards and texans of the teams listed. I think all 4 will be in the 7-9 win area with the each having a good shot at the playoffs and surpassing my expectations. I voted for the panthers because I want to see them actually be aggressive in games with their D and I'm curious how their oline gels considering all the change that they've had at the position.

I think the bengals won't be as bad as last season although I still think they'll be fighting to approach the .500 mark.

If the bucs are in the next vote I'm going with them, they won a terrible division last season and got bounced in the wildcard round. If they don't get brett I think that the rest of the division closes the gap and I would be surprised to see the bucs break 9 wins this season.

I like were their defense is going, but I'm not sure that it's ready to carry that offense which, while efficient at protecting the ball, really overachieved last season and that passing game will be hard pressed to repeat.

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Old 07-30-2008, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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Toss up between Arizona and Cincy, but Cincy has more stability at QB
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Old 07-30-2008, 12:31 PM    (permalink
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i went with the panthers, they could be better if jake comes back well from injury
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Old 07-30-2008, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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real close between carolina and the Cincy. Carolina's offense is probably gonna struggle again this year
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Old 07-30-2008, 03:15 PM    (permalink
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They are always under-rated but I can understand why really. They don't blow teams out and aren't really a hugely publicized team. They have the potential to do some damage in the NFC but they are only a couple of injuries at key positions from dropping to 3rd or worse (Maybe not worse, the Falcons are pretty bad) in the NFC South.
In the case of the Bucs, they don't have a good QB situation, a good RB situation, or even a good WR corps. And the guys who got all the publicity as the keystones of the defense are either gone (Sapp, Lynch, Rice) or aging (Barber, Kelly, Brooks). That's more than half of the starting defense that was so good.

Can you really blame everyone for doubting the Bucs?
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Old 07-30-2008, 05:10 PM    (permalink
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I'm pretty sure Kelly is on Detroit now, but they'll still have a solid defense. And they'll have a top 10 o-line in the league.
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Old 07-30-2008, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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I'm pretty sure Kelly is on Detroit now, but they'll still have a solid defense. And they'll have a top 10 o-line in the league.
wow I think you're overrating them a bit there.
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Old 07-30-2008, 06:37 PM    (permalink
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wow I think you're overrating them a bit there.
Last year they were in my top half and they'll only get better. Davin Joseph will be a monster this season. I expect a lot out of the Bucs o-line this season. They were tied for seventh in rushing yards per attempt in the league last year (as a team). 11th in total rushing yards, and it's not like they had an amazing RB or anything either.
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Old 07-30-2008, 08:25 PM    (permalink
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In the case of the Bucs, they don't have a good QB situation, a good RB situation, or even a good WR corps. And the guys who got all the publicity as the keystones of the defense are either gone (Sapp, Lynch, Rice) or aging (Barber, Kelly, Brooks). That's more than half of the starting defense that was so good.

Can you really blame everyone for doubting the Bucs?
I disagree with your assessment of the Buccaneers offense other than the wide receiver group which is admittedly quite poor. Our RB situation this year is great. Earnest Graham posted 10 TD's in his first season as starter and he is a great back for the system. Combine that with a young, run oriented offensive line and Michael Bennett and Warrick Dunn as backup and you have a great group. That is without even mentioning BJ Askew at FB and Caddy who will probably be ready to go after week 6. The QB situation isn't as bad as everyone thinks either. Jeff Garcia was one of the top QB's in the NFC last season and his high efficiency rate is perfect for a defensively minded team. Even if he goes down we have a guy in Luke McCown who had a +90 QB rating in his 3 and a half starts last season.

Yeah nobody is stellar at their position, but to call them a less than 'good' unit is doing them a little injustice in my opinion.
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