Cardinals to name Kurt Warner starter - Page 4

TheBuffaloBills · 08-26-2008, 05:38 PM

If I could go back to the the 8th pick in that draft..... I would punch myself in the face for getting mad that the Bills picked Whitner instead of Leinart.... I am very glad with the outcome

D-Unit · 08-26-2008, 05:41 PM

Dude, why does anyone ever believe anything Chris Mortensen reports???

He's notorious for being wrong. More than any other reporter out there.

bigbluedefense · 08-26-2008, 05:41 PM

Leinart can still salvage his career. He needs out of Arizona. Whistenhunt was the worst thing that happened to the Cardinals.

Leinart is a WCO qb, we all know that. Whistenhunt's downfield pass game is a horrible fit for Leinart. Leinart looked like he'd be fine when Green was around. Throw him in a WCO, and he'll salvage his career.

Having that said, he's proving that he's no where near the hype he got prior to coming out. And I myself am disappointed, bc i expected him to be better than this. His poor work ethic and belief that things are owed to him is why this happened.

But still, terrible fit in Whistenhunt's scheme. That was a bad hire.

D-Unit · 08-26-2008, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Leinart can still salvage his career. He needs out of Arizona. Whistenhunt was the worst thing that happened to the Cardinals.

Leinart is a WCO qb, we all know that. Whistenhunt's downfield pass game is a horrible fit for Leinart. Leinart looked like he'd be fine when Green was around. Throw him in a WCO, and he'll salvage his career.

Having that said, he's proving that he's no where near the hype he got prior to coming out. And I myself am disappointed, bc i expected him to be better than this. His poor work ethic and belief that things are owed to him is why this happened.

But still, terrible fit in Whistenhunt's scheme. That was a bad hire.

They should've hired Norm Chow.

fenikz · 08-26-2008, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Leinart can still salvage his career. He needs out of Arizona. Whistenhunt was the worst thing that happened to the Cardinals.

Leinart is a WCO qb, we all know that. Whistenhunt's downfield pass game is a horrible fit for Leinart. Leinart looked like he'd be fine when Green was around. Throw him in a WCO, and he'll salvage his career.

Having that said, he's proving that he's no where near the hype he got prior to coming out. And I myself am disappointed, bc i expected him to be better than this. His poor work ethic and belief that things are owed to him is why this happened.

But still, terrible fit in Whistenhunt's scheme. That was a bad hire.

...what? Wow that may be the dumbest statement i have ever heard. 1st of all it's Whisenhunt, and he is far in away the best coach we have had in my lifetime. The man took us to 8-8 in his 1st year, after 3 terrible season with Green's ****** coaching. I don't think Leinart can handle any Pro offense right now, his mind simply can't handle it, he needs something like Hawaii's spread.

SeanTaylorRIP · 08-26-2008, 05:48 PM

Too bad for the Cardinals, if Whistenhunt was coach during the 06 draft they would have certainly have taken Jay Cutler which would have been a significantly better fit.

bigbluedefense · 08-26-2008, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

They should've hired Norm Chow.

he wouldve been great.

that team is built to play WCO.

fenikz · 08-26-2008, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

he wouldve been great.

that team is built to play WCO.

umm exactly what part of our team is built for the west coast offense?

Breaston is the only WR who fits that type of scheme

bigbluedefense · 08-26-2008, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenikz

...what? Wow that may be the dumbest statement i have ever heard. 1st of all it's Whisenhunt, and he is far in away the best coach we have had in my lifetime. The man took us to 8-8 in his 1st year, after 3 terrible season with Green's ****** coaching. I don't think Leinart can handle any Pro offense right now, his mind simply can't handle it, he needs something like Hawaii's spread.

Leinart was looking fine under Green. Whistenhunt should get a plaque bc he led you to 8-8? This is the parity era, big whoop. Im not saying keep Green, Im saying they shouldve kept a WCO.

Whistenhunt is a good coach, but just a bad fit for what Arizona was built for. Ive seen enough Leinart tape, he needs a WCO. He's Chad Pennington when Chad still had some kind of arm. You don't throw a guy like that into the vertical game that Whistenhunt wants to play. Terrible fit.

bigbluedefense · 08-26-2008, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenikz

umm exactly what part of our team is built for the west coast offense?

Breaston is the only WR who fits that type of scheme

What does a WCO WR need to be?

A guy who's strong who can get YAC. Well Boldin and Fitz are pretty good at that. Neither are heralded as WRs who stretch the field either, theyre WCO WRs.

Edge is a WCO RB. He can catch and block and run the stretch. Can cutback. He's a WCO RB.

Leinart's arm would make him more suitable for a WCO.

What part of your offense ISN'T built for the WCO?

BrownsTown · 08-26-2008, 06:05 PM

Whoever said Whisenhunt is the worst thing to happen to the Cardinals should slap themselves. He deserved a coaching job for a long time and it was a great hire considering him and Grimm both are known to put great Oline's together, and that had plagued Arizona for years.

bigbluedefense · 08-26-2008, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrownsTown

Whoever said Whisenhunt is the worst thing to happen to the Cardinals should slap themselves. He deserved a coaching job for a long time and it was a great hire considering him and Grimm both are known to put great Oline's together, and that had plagued Arizona for years.

If Whistenhunt gets them to the playoffs, then yeah sure.

But what if he doesn't? What if they miss out this year and next year? (Mind you thats a very realistic possibility). What would be so special about Whistenhunt then?

He hasn't accomplished anything as a HC to get so much praise. He's living off reputation and reputation alone at this point. Im not gonna anoint the guy until i see actual results.

BrownsTown · 08-26-2008, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

If Whistenhunt gets them to the playoffs, then yeah sure.

But what if he doesn't? What if they miss out this year and next year? (Mind you thats a very realistic possibility). What would be so special about Whistenhunt then?

He hasn't accomplished anything as a HC to get so much praise. He's living off reputation and reputation alone at this point. Im not gonna anoint the guy until i see actual results.

He's accomplished already turning Arizona into a contender and making an Oline (and this is a serious challenge) that Kurt Warner can actually play behind. The coaching and scheme more than the player additions have changed the Oline from embarrassing to above average. And the offense always starts with the Oline.

fenikz · 08-26-2008, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

What does a WCO WR need to be?

A guy who's strong who can get YAC. Well Boldin and Fitz are pretty good at that. Neither are heralded as WRs who stretch the field either, theyre WCO WRs.

Edge is a WCO RB. He can catch and block and run the stretch. Can cutback. He's a WCO RB.

Leinart's arm would make him more suitable for a WCO.

What part of your offense ISN'T built for the WCO?

Q is a good YAC WR but it's not over the middle, he is at his best when being covered by a CB as he can run them over, he would not be able to do that with LB's and most SS's

as for Fitz we never send him across the middle, he simply is built for the outside, the only route in which he goes across the field is a deep in, he is built for curls, outs and seam routes where he can use his height and leaping advantage, you simply can't do that on a quick in or slant route.

bigbluedefense · 08-26-2008, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrownsTown

He's accomplished already turning Arizona into a contender and making an Oline (and this is a serious challenge) that Kurt Warner can actually play behind. The coaching and scheme more than the player additions have changed the Oline from embarrassing to above average. And the offense always starts with the Oline.

most of those players he has were Denny Green players. Denny Green built up most of that team.

Yes, he's improved that oline, but come on, we're gonna give him so much praise just for that? He did afterall, spend the 6th pick in the draft on an OT with his first pick, shoot, the oline better be improved. I don't see why he should get so much credit for that.

He also has a more developed oline. Green had some guys when they were young (in particular the OG from USC), Whistenhunt got them in a more developed stage. He's not the only Coach that couldve improved that oline.

And what good is 8-8 for one season when he's partly responsible for the ineptness of what was supposed to be your franchise qb for the next 10 years?

Like I said, he's not necessarily a bad coach, just a bad fit for what Arizona was built to do.

And he's shown nothing yet to deserve the praise he's gotten. Mike Nolan almost did decent one year with the 49ers. Is he a savior too? Hardly.

BrownsTown · 08-26-2008, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

most of those players he has were Denny Green players. Denny Green built up most of that team.

Yes, he's improved that oline, but come on, we're gonna give him so much praise just for that? He did afterall, spend a 6th round pick on an OT with his first pick, shoot, the oline better be improved. I don't see why he should get so much credit for that.

He also has a more developed oline. Green had some guys when they were young (in particular the OG from USC), Whistenhunt got them in a more developed stage. He's not the only Coach that couldve improved that oline.

And what good is 8-8 for one season when he's partly responsible for the ineptness of what was supposed to be your franchise qb for the next 10 years?

Like I said, he's not necessarily a bad coach, just a bad fit for what Arizona was built to do.

And he's shown nothing yet to deserve the praise he's gotten. Mike Nolan almost did decent one year with the 49ers. Is he a savior too? Hardly.

Like I said, it's much more the scheme and coaching of the Oline, with Whisenhunt and Grimm, than the players. That's why the line was awful when Green was the coach. Ineptness...I think people are always too hard on Matt Leinart and expect too much of him. He had a good preseason aside from the Oakland game and he lost his job to the better QB. What are we supposed to be surprised about? I think he'll still be a productive QB down the road even if they need to tweak the offense a bit to fit him.

bigbluedefense · 08-26-2008, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrownsTown

Like I said, it's much more the scheme and coaching of the Oline, with Whisenhunt and Grimm, than the players. That's why the line was awful when Green was the coach. Ineptness...I think people are always too hard on Matt Leinart and expect too much of him. He had a good preseason aside from the Oakland game and he lost his job to the better QB. What are we supposed to be surprised about? I think he'll still be a productive QB down the road even if they need to tweak the offense a bit to fit him.

he's not the only coach who couldve done that though. i just don't like the overall direction he's taking the team. i had the same problem with Nolan.

Even the defense for example. They have Allan Branch and Gabe Watson. They could have the next John Henderson/Stroud combo in a 4-3 defense in their lap. Why run a 3-4? Where does Calias Campbell fit in a 3-4?

This team has a good amount of talent on it. Its just being misused.

fenikz · 08-26-2008, 06:31 PM

O-Line Draft Picks from Denny Green

Alex Stepanovich - Cut
Nick Leckey - Cut
Elton Brown - Back Up
Deuce Latui - Starting RG...for now

We had a terrible O-line and he never addressed it, his only quality player could very well lose his starting spot to Whis' 7th round pick, Brandon Kieth has most definitely out played Deuce, the only thing keeping him as a starter is his draft position.

Whis/Grim have brought in 3 new starters and moved Wells from OT to LG like Green should of done with fatty, we went from 18th best in sacks allowed to 7th in 1 season.

As for the move to 3-4, you do realize that Branch would be getting no playing time as a UT with Darnell Dockett here. Campbell is a legit 3-4 DE, he has played great in the preseason so far, most LT's just cant handle his strength and speed 1 on 1.

bigbluedefense · 08-26-2008, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenikz

O-Line Draft Picks from Denny Green

Alex Stepanovich - Cut
Nick Leckey - Cut
Elton Brown - Back Up
Deuce Latui - Starting RG...for now

We had a terrible O-line and he never addressed it, his only quality player could very well lose his starting spot to Whis' 7th round pick, Brandon Kieth has most definitely out played Deuce, the only thing keeping him as a starter is his draft position.

Whis/Grim have brought in 3 new starters and moved Wells from OT to LG like Green should of done with fatty, we went from 18th best in sacks allowed to 7th in 1 season.

Like I said, Im not saying that Dennis Green shouldn't have been fired. And I don't doubt how they shored up the oline. But that doesnt mean that he's done a great job either.

He's done an average job at this point. Until he gets that team to the playoffs, it will continue to be an average job.

For all of Denny Green's faults, he did some great things himself with that team. He laid the foundation for that team. If Whistenhunt doesn't at least get this team to the playoffs within 2 years, his tenior is more disappointing than Green's.

Menardo75 · 08-26-2008, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

he's not the only coach who couldve done that though. i just don't like the overall direction he's taking the team. i had the same problem with Nolan.

Even the defense for example. They have Allan Branch and Gabe Watson. They could have the next John Henderson/Stroud combo in a 4-3 defense in their lap. Why run a 3-4? Where does Calias Campbell fit in a 3-4?

This team has a good amount of talent on it. Its just being misused.

The Cardinals do have the people to run a decent 3-4. Branch and Watson would not be near a Stroud Henderson combination at all. Niether of them have good enough motors to play that often and stay disciplined. They both do have the size to play nose which is a lot less responsibility and does'nt take as much gas out of them. Dansby is a great fit at OLB and it looks like so far Okeafor is a pretty good fit at the other OLB spot. Not to mention Dockett is perfect as a 3-4 DE

fenikz · 08-26-2008, 06:43 PM

if we aren't in the playoffs in 2 years he will be fired, it's that simple

but you can't argue with a 3 win improvement in his 1st year, Denny is a good GM just a really really bad coach, though it always seemed like he was just reading a draft magazine and picking BPA.

Dansby is a ILB in our 3-4, he and Hayes make up one of the best young 3-4 cores in the league.

our OLBs are Berry, Okeafor, LaBoy, Haggans, Highsmith & Harrington, great depth and a mix of youth and veterans

Menardo75 · 08-26-2008, 06:53 PM

Oh how is Berry doing at OLB

D-Unit · 08-26-2008, 06:55 PM

I still thank Wisenhunt for not pushing the Cardinals to bring Leonard Davis back.

He's an absolute God send to our RG woes. Now only if the Boys had a LG... :(

I think Wisenhunt is a very good coach, but a great coach would alter the offense to fit the players he has and mold the player into what he needs to have for his perfect system. Leinart was a huge investment by the Cards and thus Wisenhunt should tweak his offense to tailor Leinart's game and develop him along the way. If arm strength is a concern, and Wisenhunt wants a QB that can throw deep, then get him on a very strict strengthening program. Keep the offense in a way Leinart can succeed with what he's got and then as Leinart develops, open up the playbook.

Too many times, it's... The guy doesn't fit... or the system doesn't fit... Whenever a new coach comes in, you're going to have mismatches. Some players will come and go, but some players have to stick. when the Cards spent the money on Leinart and decided to make him their 1st pick, that made him a keeper.

On a separate note, WTH does he see in Al Johnson???

fenikz · 08-26-2008, 07:00 PM

You think Whis wanted to pass like he did last year with Warner? He adjusted very well to his players, Warner put up some huge numbers, and if his elbow is injured and can cut down on the fumbles you can expect much of the same this year. He uses Q to his full potential running screens, sweeps and even putting him in the back field, he is a very innovative OC and it showed much of last year. But the simple fact is if you establish the run and don't turn the ball over you have a great chance of winning games, it's a championship formula and I think every HC in the league has that vision.

As for Johnson he is a POS, and that is why he isn't starting anymore, Lyle Sendlein is a Grimm product and should be here for quite awhile.