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View Poll Results: Will Cutler be an elite QB?
Yes 90 71.43%
No 36 28.57%
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Old 09-09-2008, 12:34 PM    (permalink
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Great game for Cutler but don't get too estatic because the Raiders could not pass rush to save their lives last night.

Any QB that deserves to play in the NFL should be able to carve up a defense when there is no pressure. Not to mention all the wholes in the Raiders coverage.


But yeah I'd say kudos to Merrill Hodge and all those pundits who got it right when they said Cutler would be the best QB from that draft.


Easy decision in hindsight but not at the time with all the hype around Leinart and Young.
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Old 09-09-2008, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bruce Banner View Post
shh, don't let AQ hear you. Hell on earth if she does....
I heard that.

My five cents.

The Diabetes card is overplayed. With proper management of his Diabetes (and lord knows, NFL QB's do have some of the best), he'll have a normal career.

Here's the thing. Cyclists. (yeah, you heard me), go through around 10000 calories on a 110 mile race. There are diabetics who race. Tell me, how do they do it? And if they can at the age of 30-35 competitively race, why can't cutler? You want to know why?

It's because you don't trust...

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Old 09-09-2008, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by awfullyquiet View Post
It's because you don't trust...

This was my thought. He is such a hefty investment I doubt the organization is going to get lazy with his health care.

and by lazy I mean anything less than the best available.
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Old 09-09-2008, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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Cutler scoffs at you guys for even implying he'll need help from science, in fact once he stops playing football he's going to travel the world staring down people with cancer until the cancer regresses. Just to prove that Cutler >>>>>>>> Science
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Old 09-09-2008, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bruce Banner View Post
This was my thought. He is such a hefty investment I doubt the organization is going to get lazy with his health care.

and by lazy I mean anything less than the best available.
Sleeping in hypobaric chambers if need-be... nothing but the best.
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Old 09-09-2008, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bruce Banner View Post
What are your thoughts on his apparently imminent diabetes complications?
I never said it was going to happen immediately. We're talking 6 or 7 years down the road before it would start to become noticable.

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Originally Posted by awfullyquiet View Post
I heard that.

My five cents.

The Diabetes card is overplayed. With proper management of his Diabetes (and lord knows, NFL QB's do have some of the best), he'll have a normal career.

Here's the thing. Cyclists. (yeah, you heard me), go through around 10000 calories on a 110 mile race. There are diabetics who race. Tell me, how do they do it? And if they can at the age of 30-35 competitively race, why can't cutler? You want to know why?

It's because you don't trust...

No, I trust the wonders of science. If I didn't then I'd claim it was a miracle he was still alive after he went hyper right before the diagnosis.

The reason why cyclists can compete later than I expect a QB to is because of the differences between the sports. In cycling, you might get into a wreck once every 10 races. One out of every ten of those might be serious enough to cause you anything beyond scrapes and bruises. And most races are several weeks apart. You're talking maybe one serious threat for injury a year. In football, for a QB, they have to put up with this.



two or three times a game. Diabetes has ended an NFL player's careers as recently as 2002. Complications from kidney trauma from a hard hit not only put Kenny Duckett out of the league, it put him in an early grave at the age of 38. The pounding you take in an NFL football game is beyond any other in all of sports. The real concern isn't that Cutler will go into hyperglycemic shock, it's that he gets sacked hard, and lacerates a kidney. Ask Chris Simms how easy it is to play at the same level if you've had an internal organ shredded.
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Old 09-09-2008, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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The reason why cyclists can compete later than I expect a QB to is because of the differences between the sports. In cycling, you might get into a wreck once every 10 races. One out of every ten of those might be serious enough to cause you anything beyond scrapes and bruises. And most races are several weeks apart. You're talking maybe one serious threat for injury a year.
This here is where i have to stop you. Imagine going 40 mph in a car. Stripping down to your underwear, and throwing yourself off onto pavement. That's pretty much what it's like in any crash, to start. Not to mention curbs, people, bystanders, metal things, cliffs, bridges, concrete... oh yeah. and mountains + rocks...

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In football, for a QB, they have to put up with this. two or three times a game.
Sure, quarterbacks get 'touched' but, most of the time, they're not getting demolished like RB's or WR's would... But i don't see your point, because you're diabetic getting hit hurts more?

Quote:
Picture of Kitna getting owned
Cute picture, Kitna gets sacked a tremendous amount of times, why hasn't he had his kidneys lacerated yet?

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Diabetes has ended an NFL player's careers as recently as 2002. Complications from kidney trauma from a hard hit not only put Kenny Duckett out of the league, it put him in an early grave at the age of 38.
Whoa whoa whoa... Kidney trauma can affect anyone. You can't possibly know or infer that the kidney trauma and the diabetes have ANYTHING to do with each other.

Quote:
The pounding you take in an NFL football game is beyond any other in all of sports. The real concern isn't that Cutler will go into hyperglycemic shock, it's that he gets sacked hard, and lacerates a kidney. Ask Chris Simms how easy it is to play at the same level if you've had an internal organ shredded.
I agree with you, the pounding in an NFL football game is above everything else... But, first, i think more important is to look at a positional level here. When you bring up Duckett, he was a wide reciever. He was subject to even more brutal tackles than Cutler would (hence 'protect the quarterback?'), Cutler will not take the pounding of a: running back, defensive player, or wide reciever. Therefore, i don't think it's fair to compare the two... Secondly, Did Chris Simms have diabetes? Well, then, how did he lacerate an internal organ? Does diabetes mean you're more likely to lacerate a kidney? Or a speen for that matter? No. Not a chance in hell. Yes, kidney disease is likely for those with diabetes (more predominantly type 2). But that doesn't mean you'll lacerate a kidney because of it.

I think you're taking this WAY too far. Diabetics can live rather normal lives, and yes, play in football on a ultra-competative level till whenever they feel like it. Sorry dude, you have a way lame argument on this. The only thing holding Cutler back is his own ability to manage his health, and in that regard, he has some of the best money can by making sure he's alright.
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Old 09-09-2008, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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But i don't see your point, because you're diabetic getting hit hurts more?
This is what I don't get....He is also saying that contact sports make diabetic complications progress faster.
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Old 09-09-2008, 03:29 PM    (permalink
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This is what I don't get....He is also saying that contact sports make diabetic complications progress faster.
Which is totally unproven.
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Old 09-09-2008, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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Sure, quarterbacks get 'touched' but, most of the time, they're not getting demolished like RB's or WR's would... But i don't see your point, because you're diabetic getting hit hurts more?
RBs might get wore down faster because they're getting hit more often. WRs rarely get laid out, for most of the game they run routes, occasionally attempt to block, and maybe 5 or 6 times out of 40-50 snaps, might catch the ball and get hit. The difference between an open field tackle and a sack is the posture. Why do you think QBs, Kickers, and punters have so many rules regarding how they can be hit? Because they're exposed. A blindside sack is the most damaging hit in football, because the QB is focused downfield, fully extended, and often with their torso completely exposed. A running back or WR getting hit 95% of the time knows it's coming, and takes steps to protect themselves. They curl up, protect their torso, and try to make an effort to ride the blow. On most sacks, the QB is trying to find a reciever, gets hit in the torso, and driven into the ground.

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Cute picture, Kitna gets sacked a tremendous amount of times, why hasn't he had his kidneys lacerated yet?
Luck. Why hasn't every player who gets upended wound up with a broken neck like Kevin Everett?

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Whoa whoa whoa... Kidney trauma can affect anyone. You can't possibly know or infer that the kidney trauma and the diabetes have ANYTHING to do with each other.
Did you not read my earlier post? Diabetes Nephropathy. Diabetes places tremendous strain on the circulatory system. It causes blood vessels to degrade, starting with the cappillaries, the smallest in the body. The Kidneys are essentially a tightly wound ball of cappillary tufts. And unlike the vital cappillaries in the lungs, the kidneys are rather painfully exposed. Diabetes is the number one cause of adult kidney failure in the entire world.

Compounding the issue is PVD, which causes poor circulation, which makes it more difficult to heal from wounds and more prone to infection. Hence why a cat scratch can cause an otherwise healthy diabetic to need to have their leg amputated.

These two combine to create a cyclical problem. Diabetes causes kidney damage, which makes the alread poor circulation worse, which makes the damage harder to recover from, which makes you more prone to further kidney damage, along with other problems such as cardiovascular disease, necrosis, and nerve damage.

Quote:
I agree with you, the pounding in an NFL football game is above everything else... But, first, i think more important is to look at a positional level here. When you bring up Duckett, he was a wide reciever. He was subject to even more brutal tackles than Cutler would (hence 'protect the quarterback?'), Cutler will not take the pounding of a: running back, defensive player, or wide reciever. Therefore, i don't think it's fair to compare the two... Secondly, Did Chris Simms have diabetes? Well, then, how did he lacerate an internal organ? Does diabetes mean you're more likely to lacerate a kidney? Or a speen for that matter? No. Not a chance in hell. Yes, kidney disease is likely for those with diabetes (more predominantly type 2). But that doesn't mean you'll lacerate a kidney because of it.
Actually, Type I diabetes creates more problems, due to it's earlier onset, and likleyhood of going undiagnosed for a long time during the younger years. Cutler himself said that he let his blood sugar get up to 600 before he decided to seek treatment. That's compounding the likelyhood of further complications exponentially.
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Old 09-09-2008, 03:50 PM    (permalink
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Woo, i wanna hear the response to this one. Seems like a well re-searched post.
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Old 09-09-2008, 03:50 PM    (permalink
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Woo, i wanna hear the response to this one. Seems like a well re-searched post.
AQ's better.

Give it time.
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Old 09-09-2008, 03:53 PM    (permalink
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AQ's better.

Give it time.
I must say, i've yet to be disappointed by one of AQ's posts, so i'll brb, i'm gonna pop some corn.
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Old 09-09-2008, 04:03 PM    (permalink
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It's because you don't trust...

I for one think Terry Jeeves is completely unreliable.
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Old 09-09-2008, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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RBs might get wore down faster because they're getting hit more often. WRs rarely get laid out, for most of the game they run routes, occasionally attempt to block, and maybe 5 or 6 times out of 40-50 snaps, might catch the ball and get hit. The difference between an open field tackle and a sack is the posture. Why do you think QBs, Kickers, and punters have so many rules regarding how they can be hit? Because they're exposed. A blindside sack is the most damaging hit in football, because the QB is focused downfield, fully extended, and often with their torso completely exposed. A running back or WR getting hit 95% of the time knows it's coming, and takes steps to protect themselves. They curl up, protect their torso, and try to make an effort to ride the blow. On most sacks, the QB is trying to find a reciever, gets hit in the torso, and driven into the ground.
WR's, in the air. Where do they get hit first? Kidneys, Stomach, Side, all those sensitive areas of the abdomen that cause issues that you're talking about. A QB should NEVER be fully focused downfield, if you cannot tell where the pass-rush is and how to 'avoid' the hit, you shouldn't be a qb. Secondly, you said it yourself. They get hit in the torso. TORSO. Not the abdomen. The TORSO. T-O-R-S-O. which is why you see bruised ribs so common on the injury reports for QB's.

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Luck. Why hasn't every player who gets upended wound up with a broken neck like Kevin Everett?
Luck doesn't exist. Statistically Improbable is more likely. For the amount of times Kitna has gone down, he's sure a tough one.

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Did you not read my earlier post? Diabetes Nephropathy. Diabetes places tremendous strain on the circulatory system. It causes blood vessels to degrade, starting with the cappillaries, the smallest in the body. The Kidneys are essentially a tightly wound ball of cappillary tufts. And unlike the vital cappillaries in the lungs, the kidneys are rather painfully exposed. Diabetes is the number one cause of adult kidney failure in the entire world.
Lets see, where to start here. First of all, you treat Cutler as he's a 'normal american'. Jay Cutler is in fine physical condition. He regulates his blood sugar. And he has great medical personnel, above the national average. Lets start with something useful here. Why does diabetes cause strain to the circulatory system? Improperly controlled blood glucose levels causes blood pH to vary to the point, that after PROLONGED exposure, the blood vessels are more apt to be filled with cholesterol and fatty plaque buildup. Yes. Diabetes is the number one cause of adult kidney failure in the world, but, JAY CUTLER IS NOT THE WORLD. Anyway... When Duckett was playing, Diabetes wasn't the subject of Ron Santo's radio gabberings... JDRF wasn't important... Jay Cutler has the best medical technology can offer, and that includes a world class diet.

Now, here's a stat for you... "kidney damage rarely occurs in the first 10 years of diabetes". (footnote 1) If cutler plays for 10, 15 years... do you REALLY think he's going to have kidney damage? no. because as i said above, it's about prolonged negative exposure.

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Compounding the issue is PVD, which causes poor circulation, which makes it more difficult to heal from wounds and more prone to infection. Hence why a cat scratch can cause an otherwise healthy diabetic to need to have their leg amputated.
See above. They're not 'compounded' issues at all. Yes, but not all diabetics have PVD, ron santo didn't develop PVD until later in life, as most diabetics around that age are. Here's a fun idea. When you talk about the average life expecancy, you'd say it's around 75-80. But, you look at people now, they're dying on average around that age, but, you have to think. What exactly were they exposed to at that age, that we now know are bad. It's concievable we'll live to 100 now, with the advances in health care and proper health management. Now, think of people who are undergoing kidney problems due to diabetes, average age? 40-50, where was diabetes research 20 years ago? where has diabetic medication come since then? Cutler was diagnosed what? three months ago? You can't say that the results of the past are going to be the same statistics of the future. That's ridiculous mr. i know medicine.

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These two combine to create a cyclical problem. Diabetes causes kidney damage, which makes the alread poor circulation worse, which makes the damage harder to recover from, which makes you more prone to further kidney damage, along with other problems such as cardiovascular disease, necrosis, and nerve damage.
Again, this is all true currently for people suffering from those conditions, but not necessarily applicable.

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Actually, Type I diabetes creates more problems, due to it's earlier onset, and likleyhood of going undiagnosed for a long time during the younger years. Cutler himself said that he let his blood sugar get up to 600 before he decided to seek treatment. That's compounding the likelyhood of further complications exponentially.
Agreed, type 1 diabetes creates more problems, but a big issue with type 2 is the general bad habits of poor eating, and lack of managment causes a number of other terrible issues that lead to kidney failure as quickly (and ketosis).

3 Months of blood sugar nightmares isn't enough for 10 years worth of issues. It's probably likely that his body stopped producing insulin over the past year. It's not like he's had it since he was a child... Type 1 diabetes can occur at any time.

Anyway. Is Jay Cutler more likely to get a so-called kidney injury or Adam Morrison? Where do you get your information? Are you some sorta doctor? Or diabetic yourself? Or are you just perusing web md for your hypocondriac needs?

(footnote 1) http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/Kudiseases/pubs/kdd/
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Old 09-09-2008, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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That was refreshing.

and I'm not surprised whatsoever.

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Old 09-09-2008, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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AQ, do you know this stuff off the top of your noodle or did you do some researching?

Edit - BB, she's actually a little scary how much she knows.
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Old 09-09-2008, 04:59 PM    (permalink
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I'm hypoglycemic. I'm also compulsorily asian. I study non-stop, especially with things that have to do with my blood sugar...

I needed a little help with finding out the average age of kidney failure in relation to average time of diabetes... but most of it is things i remember from college, journals i read when directing which way cupcakes are supposed to exit my body (you're not doing anything important, you might as well learn)... and the fact that i know how to put 2+2 together most of the time. And i have a degree in biomedical systems (i.e. an engineering degree). That helps too.

Besides, what helps more is actually being able to relate **** to ****. (yes, **** to ****)... when you put one piece of **** next to another piece of ****, you better make sure you can rub them together or else it'll look nasty. (see notes on life expectancy)
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:03 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bruce Banner View Post
What are your thoughts on his apparently imminent diabetes complications?
All I'm going to say is diabetes has never faced off against a divine being... until now.
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:03 PM    (permalink
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Besides, what helps more is actually being able to relate **** to ****. (yes, **** to ****)... when you put one piece of **** next to another piece of ****, you better make sure you can rub them together or else it'll look nasty. (see notes on life expectancy)
I'm seeing stars because of your argument.

I could go on about how I agree with you on Cutler being a diabetic, but I couldn't say it any better than you did anyway... so... you go girl.
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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Jay Culter is ******* awesome. Awesome enough, he could've gone to Rutgers. Yes, he's that awesome
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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All I'm going to say is diabetes has never faced off against a divine being... until now.
I heard his weapon against diabetes is Ron Santo's prosthetic legs.
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:09 PM    (permalink
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AQ's better.

Give it time.
A true classic has st-st-st-staying power. So let's give it ten seconds.
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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Jay Culter is ******* awesome. Awesome enough, he could've gone to Rutgers. Yes, he's that awesome
Rutger's should still build him a monument and offer him an honorary degree.

As for aq's point on us likely living to 100 you've also gotta consider that as our knowledge of biology and medicine builds new discoveries will come quicker and quicker so by the time we're 100 there'll be new break throughs that'll push the average life expectancy even further so that hopefully the medicine is growing faster than we're aging. Why I genuinely think some of us will live for ever.
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