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Old 09-14-2008, 08:23 PM    (permalink
MarioPalmer
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Default Carson Palmer, what can be done?

I wanted to ask non-Bengals fans what they thought about Carson Palmer. Please don't spam or flame or say he's sucks cause your a Steeler fan cause that doesn't help the situation.

So my question is, what do you guys think of Carson Palmer? Just 2 years ago, going into his 4th season (2006) he was considered 1 of the big 3. Brady, Manning and Palmer were all considered the top 3 elite QB talents in the NFL. And even with that horrible injury he still had a Pro-BOwl 2006 season and had a very solid 2007 season considering that the Bengal franchise had completely fallen apart. Yes, he did throw for 20 INTs last year, but he also threw 26 TDs and 4000+ yards along with a 60%+ completion percentage.

So, is his failings just a couple of bad games, or is this situation in Cincy finally getting to him? I have a hard time believing a QB with that much talent and proven production will just fall off the face of the earth and become mediocre over night. I know people were talking about Donovan McNabb in that light during the 2007 season and end of 2006 season, but we all say him in week 1 of 2008 against the Rams. And we are now sure that McNabb has atleast 2 or 3 highly productive years left in that body, of coarse if there is no major injury. Can the same thing be said about Carson Pamler?

Please, respectable, knowledgable and non bias NFL fans please.
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Old 09-14-2008, 08:26 PM    (permalink
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He's had 2 bad games.

Thats really about it.
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Old 09-14-2008, 08:28 PM    (permalink
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He needs to get out of Cinci somehow.
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Old 09-14-2008, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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His mechanics have really broken down. He's also struggles outside of the pocket. He can't make throws on the run at all. This is a real problem with the current state of the Bengals oline.
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Old 09-14-2008, 08:35 PM    (permalink
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He needs to get out of Cinci somehow.
That won't happen. As much as I think that some ignorant fans would want that, he won't leave. He isn't a quitter and the Brown family knows they finally have a real QB. They might not pay alot for outside help, but when they have a QB like Palmer they aren't getting rid of him.

I just have to wonder if its just 2 bad games, you know? Something that I am not liking is this whole Chad "Ocho Cinco" Johnson crap. He and TJ are playing with no heart. I mean none at all. It seems that TJ is Chads little puppy dog and oes whatever Chad wants. If Chad is unhappy then TJ finds a reason for himself to be unhappy. Its ridiculous. I wished they had traded him or both during or before the draft. I don't care is Carson would have had 2 unknown targets to throw too, better then having these two bums running around out there just going through the motions.

I personally think its Carson's frustration with his team mates. In 2005 when they were one of the best squads in the NFL, it was because they were a family, they lived and died together. But ever since then, when people actually started paying attention to them, you got guys like Johnson and TJ who are more worried about their on screen appearence, the coaches worried about what the media thinks of them, etc. I think its really pissed Carson off and maybe messed with his confidence. I just hope I'm looking too much into it, I root for this team every week and when we drafted Carson Palmer I really thought that this was it, we finally got our Peyton, our Brady, our guy that we can go to war with every Sunday no matter what, and we would always have him to rely on. I hipe that energy hasn't ended.

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Old 09-14-2008, 08:46 PM    (permalink
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I dont know whatsup with him now (if there is anything), but he definitely needs to get out of Cincy. Cincy has looked pathetic, and they need huge coach changes. The talent on the roster is good, but there just seems to be no sense of team chemistry. With talent like they have, I do not see why they shouldnt be doing better.
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Old 09-14-2008, 08:50 PM    (permalink
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Don't worry hell right the ship against Cleveland.

He'll go 55-61 for 1,023 yards and 9 touchdowns and 0 picks against us in two games this year
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Old 09-14-2008, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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He played against possibly 2 top 5 D's in the NFL in Baltimore and Tennessee. Today's game was in the same wind conditions that Big Ben and Anderson are experiencing right now, so right from the outset the Bengals were at a disadvantage since passing was made harder.

Brees started poorly last season and we know he is still a top QB, and it is only 2 weeks, he can still get back into it this season with Cinci IMO. But hey, the way the situation with Vince Young is unfolding, I'd be cool with Palmer wanting out of Cinci and coming to the Titans :)
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Old 09-14-2008, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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I agree, I think they need to bring in a complete hard ass, maybe Marty Scheotenhiemer (spelling??). THey need someone who will come in there and say this is my way and here is the highway.....PICK ONE! Marvin Lewis has seemed to be the guy who didn't want to be hated, he always wanted the players to like him and he always had that personality of "yeah, whatever you want." Its just stupid. I say bring in a drill sargent and lay down the law with this team and dump anyone who wants out.
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Old 09-14-2008, 08:56 PM    (permalink
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He's been screwing up my fantasy team =(.
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Old 09-14-2008, 09:01 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
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He played against possibly 2 top 5 D's in the NFL in Baltimore and Tennessee. Today's game was in the same wind conditions that Big Ben and Anderson are experiencing right now, so right from the outset the Bengals were at a disadvantage since passing was made harder.

Brees started poorly last season and we know he is still a top QB, and it is only 2 weeks, he can still get back into it this season with Cinci IMO. But hey, the way the situation with Vince Young is unfolding, I'd be cool with Palmer wanting out of Cinci and coming to the Titans :)

haha, I hope not, no offense, but I'm also a Texan fn and trust me the Texans would give their left legs for a QB that talented...lol

BUt thanks for the encouragment, I'm sure he'll be fine, I just hate, I mean I really hate it when I see players with a ton of potential and a player who really works hard and he production and success doesn't amount to much. I'm sure you are feeling the same way with Vince Young. I know when he was drafted by you guys you were all thinking..."Hell YEAH!!!" And now your seeing that maybe it wasn't all that great, there is always hope, but we'll see if it ever amounts to anything.

Carson is in a pretty difficult spot right now. He is with a team that has the offensive talent to be there and some young defensive players with a lot of potential, but the ownership, coaching staff and front office people are the ones who I believe that are letting this franchise and its fans down. This is a year were I think its either Marvin Lewis or Mike Brown (getting a real GM), but something has to give.
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Old 09-14-2008, 09:06 PM    (permalink
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He needs a new off. Co ordinator so bad, they are so predictable and the plays are so original.
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Old 09-14-2008, 09:57 PM    (permalink
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I think they need to give him this year. You really can't just give him his walking papers, because you would be dismissing (talent wise) a top 5 QB in the league. He no longer is in the big 3 as I think Brees and Romo have overtaken him. Like OzTitan posted, defenses don't get any tougher then the ones Carson has already faced. He has the talent to throw to, I didn't really understand getting rid of Rudi Johnson, except for the fact that it was a cap casualty. His line really doesn't have any standout, well I mean I like Levi Jones, but still. One more year, after wards then decide. If its another medicore year, it might be time to rip it apart and rebuild starting with a new head coach and the probable dismissal of Chad Ochocinco Johnson
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Old 09-14-2008, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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Old 09-14-2008, 11:28 PM    (permalink
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I always thought there was a Big 2(peyton and Tom) a number 3 in Drew Brees, and a close 4 in Palmer, able to make some throws that Brees can't, gets less passes knocked down, but a bit behind in terms of accuracy, pocket presence, and decision making.

He's had a rough start, but he's an elite QB, give him some time, he'll come out of his funk I think.
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Old 09-14-2008, 11:33 PM    (permalink
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LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

You've got to be kidding me... Two games. The first one he spent the entire game on his back. The second one had wind gusts up to 50+ mph.

I'm not saying he's still top 5 or top 3 like he was but come on, how about a larger time frame. Bob Bratkowski is terrible. As critesy saw on our board, none of us are happy with him, the play calling is bad. The WR's are essentially in their preseason games. We just played two of the best defenses in the AFC. If he keeps up this rough start until week 6 or 7, then you can start this thread but until then, lets be real.
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Old 09-14-2008, 11:45 PM    (permalink
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The Bengals need to give him a better running game and offensive line.
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Old 09-14-2008, 11:49 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basileus777 View Post
His mechanics have really broken down. He's also struggles outside of the pocket. He can't make throws on the run at all. This is a real problem with the current state of the Bengals oline.
Besides the lack of run game and throwing excessively last year, his mechanics were a part of the problem. That and he's not a mobile QB, he's never had to be. This post is correct and always has been, he's not perfect.

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The Bengals need to give him a better running game and offensive line.
Exactly. When they know we're going to pass and we can't block them, a non-mobile QB is in trouble. He had absolutely zero chance at Baltimore to make good throws. This week the wind killed any chance of moderate to deep passes, which are his bread and butter.
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Old 09-14-2008, 11:55 PM    (permalink
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He played against possibly 2 top 5 D's in the NFL in Baltimore and Tennessee
Are you serious about this?
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Old 09-15-2008, 12:32 AM    (permalink
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Anybody would rot in Cincy.
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Old 09-15-2008, 12:38 AM    (permalink
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Who do you want for him? You can have your pick, other than AD.
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Old 09-15-2008, 12:53 AM    (permalink
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LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

You've got to be kidding me... Two games. The first one he spent the entire game on his back. The second one had wind gusts up to 50+ mph.

I'm not saying he's still top 5 or top 3 like he was but come on, how about a larger time frame. Bob Bratkowski is terrible. As critesy saw on our board, none of us are happy with him, the play calling is bad. The WR's are essentially in their preseason games. We just played two of the best defenses in the AFC. If he keeps up this rough start until week 6 or 7, then you can start this thread but until then, lets be real.

No, I agree, I'm not saying we should move on, or get mad at him or anything like that. I want him to stay and retire a Bengal fan. I still think he can once again retake his top 3 QB title, but he needs something new to spark that offense like it was in 2004, 2005 and 2006.

There was the swagger that the Bengal offense had those years and then last year something happened. I think it has something do with the no running game and the loss of Eric Steinbach. The loss of Steinbach was unacceptable in my eyes. I know the Willie Anderson extension was basically the reason why they didn't keep him, but to say that didn't know they were going to cut Anderson or at the least they didn't know that Anderson was on his last tank of gas is just plain nieve.

Mike Brown also needs to grow a pair and bring in a real GM. Actually go out and recruit a Scott Pioli (spelling?). Or someone of that caliber of GM.

The draft picks need to pan out. The Bengals draft picks from 2004-2008 have been hit and miss with alot more misses than hits. The first round picks have been solid, but the later rounds that usually fill out a teams depth have been down right aweful. 2005's draft has been the offseason that has completely handicapped this team.

*David Pollack*- who looked to be the next Bengal leader along with being a physical pressence that had excellent football smarts and an outstanding motor was hit with one of the worst cases of bad luck ever. First he comes into the league late because Mike Brown didn't want to pay him and then he gets his neck broken on a fluke play.

*Odell Thurman*-was another major part of the Bengal resurgence and was on his way to becoming a Kirk Morrison, DeMeco Ryans, Mike Peterson, Will Witherspoon, Al Wilslon and Keith Brooking type leader with the same kind of production. But of coarse he can't keep his nose clean and he basically kicks himself out of the league and misses 2 full years.

*Chris Henry*-was on his way to becoming one of the best slot receivers and red zone targets in the NFL. An easy 1rst round talent who was a bit of a character concern coming into the 2005 NFL Draft, but the Bengals were willing to overlook it if he could produce and play up to his potential which he did and some in his rookie year. He was quickly becoming one of Palmers favorite receivers and was playing like a 10 year vet right out of the gate. Yet again, he plays himself right out of the league with bine head moves off the field.

These 3 guys, in their rookie year, became the building blocks that some teams take 2 seperate drafts to find. Yet the Bengals hit the jackpot with 2005 and these 3. But as luck had it, they all failed to live up to their potnetial.

2004 was another draft that has hindered the Bengals' progression into a contender. We did find starters SS Madieu Williams, WLB Landon Johnson, DE Robert Geathers and OT Stacey Andrews, but we passed and let guys by with the picks of RB Chris Perry and CB Keiwan Ratliff. Passing on guys like LB Karlos Dansby, DT Dornell Docket, LM Demorrio Williams, SS Sean Jones, OG Chris Snee, C Jake Grove, DT Igor Olshanski, C Nick Hardwick and TE Chris Cooley. That draft was unacceptable once again. We got good depth and a few starters out of the 2004 draft but nothing that was impactful like the guys I mentioned.

2006 was basically CB jonathan Joseph and DT Demeto Peko, the rest are not even mentionable. NO kidding. Thses two guys are starters with Joseph becoming a real shut down corner. Reminds me a lot of CB Q.Jammer of San Diego. But the real help was supposed to come from 2006 Supplemental Draft pick MLB Ahmad Brooks. Who, just a year earlier, was considered the #1 MLB in the country and was on his way to becoming one of the most coveted defenders in the nation. We draft him in the 3rd round of the supplemental draft and he looks like a steal. His rookie season was very good considering he didn't have any type of off-season with the Begals and making it into camp by the 1rst preseason game. He looked very promising until last year. Brooks has a awesome impactful season opener against the Ravens with a 5 tackle, 1 sack and 3 assist night but in the 2nd game of the year tears his homstring and goes out for the year and lands on IR by week 8. But, the optimism is okay and we still have faith in him because of how much he improved from year 1 to year 2. BUt then he does the unthinkable and hits a woman and becomes lazy and lathargic in his offseason training and rehab for his injury. Great, another wasted talent and a player who falls victim to useless and non motivated coaching staff that keep their foot on his neck and keep it there.

This kind of thing has been going on here for awhile now, obviously scince the end of the 2005 season when the reports came out that Chad Johnson took a swing at Marvin Lewis in the locker room during halftime of the playoff game against the Steelers. From that day forward this team has been in shambles and it looks like it has taken Pamler down with it. I just hope that this staff and front office can make the nessacary adjustments for Palmer and the rest of the crew to progress and live up to their potential.
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Old 09-15-2008, 01:01 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by yo123 View Post
Who do you want for him? You can have your pick, other than AD.
We're plenty happy to have him here ;)

The thing that makes this post the most ridiculous is the fact that it comes after this game. As I said, the wind gusts topped 50 mph SEVERAL times today, it was by far the worst winds have been here since I've been alive and it was sustained all game. Carson threw 2 INT's, both in the 4th quarter trailing with said conditions. The one drive we managed some sort of running game it was 71 yards (I believe) and a TD.
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Old 09-15-2008, 01:10 AM    (permalink
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Um. Mike Brown needs to go. He has a way bigger responsibility for bringing in character issue guys. It's not coincidence that these guys don't live up to their potential, some people never change, and their track record is why some teams didn't draft these guys. Lewis needs to go because he has no authority over his players, and Brown didn't help that when he brought back Henry.

Before every single bengals fan start going OMGZ HENRY WAS BROUGHT BACK CUZ THE CHARGES WERE DROPPED, so what? this guy hangs around the wrong people, you cut him, Lewis said he's gonna start being tough, bengals try to start clean, then you bring him back. what kind of message does that send? And then of course the 85 ****** makes this team seem even more like a joke.

Basically, this team needs a new start, a new image, they need to get rid of Johnson and Henry and people alike, get rid of Lewis, bring in a new coach that's tough, they need to stop taking players with a troublesome history.

Palmer is not the problem. But who knows, he might need/want to start over on a new team.
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Old 09-15-2008, 01:19 AM    (permalink
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He really does not have much help around him anymore. I think he will be ok. The Bengals definitly need to clean house though.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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