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Old 09-15-2008, 02:20 AM    (permalink
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Everyone and their brother agrees that the Bengals need a GM. Our absolute #1 problem is ownership, period. Marvin took a 2-14 team to 8-8 with HIS free agents and HIS draft picks. 2005, Mike Brown struck again in leading to the back to back picks of Thurman/Henry, same can be said for Ahmad Brooks. Brown has a history of taking guys with shady backgrounds and things have never changed. Until he lets a coach or GM who know football run this show, we're going to underachieve... No matter who the coach is.

The biggest blow to the Bengals offense was losing Rich Braham at Center. Ghiaciuc has been below average and killed our run blocking ever since. He is small, below average in terms of setting up the line and easily the weakest link on our offense. Everything has dropped since he started playing, this includes while Steinbach was here. I still support the move in letting Steinbach walk.
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Old 09-15-2008, 02:23 AM    (permalink
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Um. Mike Brown needs to go. He has a way bigger responsibility for bringing in character issue guys. It's not coincidence that these guys don't live up to their potential, some people never change, and their track record is why some teams didn't draft these guys. Lewis needs to go because he has no authority over his players, and Brown didn't help that when he brought back Henry.

Before every single bengals fan start going OMGZ HENRY WAS BROUGHT BACK CUZ THE CHARGES WERE DROPPED, so what? this guy hangs around the wrong people, you cut him, Lewis said he's gonna start being tough, bengals try to start clean, then you bring him back. what kind of message does that send? And then of course the 85 ****** makes this team seem even more like a joke.

Basically, this team needs a new start, a new image, they need to get rid of Johnson and Henry and people alike, get rid of Lewis, bring in a new coach that's tough, they need to stop taking players with a troublesome history.

Palmer is not the problem. But who knows, he might need/want to start over on a new team.
We all agree that Brown needs to go. I think it's unfortunate that Marvin has been placed in the position he's in, I think he's an adequate coach in a bad spot.

My biggest issue is I just don't see firing Marvin leading to any kind of real change. That coach comes in, gets free reign then Brown sticks his hand in the pot and we're back where we started.

We need a new owner for any real hope, it's no coincidence teams like Pittsburgh constantly compete, it all starts with ownership.
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Old 09-15-2008, 02:31 AM    (permalink
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Yes, firing Marvin when Brown still has the strings won't do any good, but Lewis has some responsibility in this too. It's not exactly smart to be a buddy buddy coach with a locker room full of players with a bad track record. He should have put his foot down a long time ago.

I mean, I don't know why he doesn't just resign, and I mean this as in I don't know why he would want to stick around. He has no control in the locker room, is probably not respected by his players, and will have to deal with the players Mike Brown brings in, has to deal with 85, etc.

Thing is, if Bengals start over completely, I don't see how Palmer can remain there, so it'll be rebuilding and starting from the first block again.
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Old 09-15-2008, 02:40 AM    (permalink
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Yes, firing Marvin when Brown still has the strings won't do any good, but Lewis has some responsibility in this too. It's not exactly smart to be a buddy buddy coach with a locker room full of players with a bad track record. He should have put his foot down a long time ago.

I mean, I don't know why he doesn't just resign, and I mean this as in I don't know why he would want to stick around. He has no control in the locker room, is probably not respected by his players, and will have to deal with the players Mike Brown brings in, has to deal with 85, etc.

Thing is, if Bengals start over completely, I don't see how Palmer can remain there, so it'll be rebuilding and starting from the first block again.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if Marvin resigned at the end of the year. The media/fans are really clamping down on the team hard at this point and he doesn't have much say in changing things. I do agree he needed to do a better job controlling the team.

I don't think bringing in a new coach is a bad thing, I just feel Marvin isn't a bad coach... He's just in a bad situation. His first year was great, there was so many stories of change, even small stuff. The staff in Georgetown (where our training camp is held) said the cafeteria was normally an absolute disaster when the team got done but Lewis made sure the players took care of things. Surely Marvin is growing frustrated with the way things are going, I still feel Brown isn't really thinking about firing Marvin if he wants to stay here.

I can't see letting Carson go (given his contract and abilities), I will say the tools are there to swap this team to more of a classic AFCN team with our young guys in the defense. It's pretty evident TJ Houshmandzadeh is going to walk after this year, I wish Chad would be gone. I honestly don't have any idea what the franchise will look like 2 years from now.
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Old 09-15-2008, 02:48 AM    (permalink
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This is an organizational issue. Palmer hasn't looked quite the same as a QB since his injury, but he's still been good, with periods of excellence. The Bengals have just created an atmosphere that is conducive to losing and making mistakes. Marvin Lewis might be a decent coach, but he had it under control for awhile and it went south. He should be held accountable and fired.

Obviously, the FO is the biggest problem, and they should be rooted out as well, but we all know that isn't going to happen. The only hope this team has is if they can get a young coach in that has his priorities in order, and will bring toughness, discipline and a do-whatever-it-takes attitude to the team. If that were to happen, there is enough talent in place to get this thing turned around quite fast. Parcells would be perfect for that team. They would be challenging for the AFC within two years.
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Old 09-15-2008, 02:52 AM    (permalink
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Are you serious about this?
Why wouldn't I be? The Titans were the 5th best D yardage wise last season, better if you ask footballoutsiders, and the Ravens were 6th overall. So far the Titans look better still this year and the Ravens, although in only one game, likewise.

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Old 09-15-2008, 02:52 AM    (permalink
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I have a solution (unrealistic)- somehow get Tom Coughlin to come over and kick some asses. He would make these players **** their pants. =D

Edit- Maybe Bill Cowher ?!!!
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Old 09-15-2008, 02:55 AM    (permalink
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Agreed 1000000% on Parcells, he's absolutely without a doubt the type of coach this team needs. Ownership aside, it's not a bad gig given the players that are currently here. Strictly given what's happened between Marvin and the team, yes, he should be fired. However, the fact that it's a result of management is what bothers me. That and Brown has a VERY long leash.

On a side note, after this year Carson had acknowledged that his mechanics had begun to slack off. With his ACL rehab in '05 there was no work on the fundamentals given there was bigger fish to fry. Last year was just abandoning the run and passing it to two players.

EDIT: Agreed Gatz. What's funny is in '03 I wanted Coughlin instead of Marvin, I was happy with the decision until recently of course lol. I thought about Cowher although it would never happen I would definitely welcome it.
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Old 09-15-2008, 03:27 AM    (permalink
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I think being surrounded by immature teammates and weak leadership is wearing on him mentally. But talking strictly football, I think Hoge or Jaworski, one of those guys, pointed out how skittish he's been and how poor his mechanics are post-knee injury with video evidence to back that up. Which is truly sad because he's probably the most talented pure passer in the NFL.
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Old 09-15-2008, 09:34 AM    (permalink
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Carson Palmer has been a severely overrated quarterback for a long time now. He can't live off of one great year anymore. Its not all his fault, but you can't deny his shortcomings anymore. He's not nearly as good as advertised.
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Old 09-15-2008, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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Palmer is good, the Bengals suck. The Bengals sucking is a big reason why Palmer is not doing good lately. Tony Romo, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning are all in the environment where they have a great line and weapons.
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Old 09-15-2008, 10:01 AM    (permalink
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Palmer is good, the Bengals suck. The Bengals sucking is a big reason why Palmer is not doing good lately. Tony Romo, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning are all in the environment where they have a great line and weapons.
Palmer has weapons too. When Henry comes back, he has 3 solid passing options. He has a solid run game. His oline is not the best in the world, thats where the main issue lies in terms of personnel, but its not horrible either.

People are giving Palmer a pass on things that other qbs get killed for. He's just not making great decisions with the ball. Thats all on Palmer. He leaves his WRs left out to dry a lot too. But he always gets a pass for it bc he's Carson Palmer.

Carson has been living off reputation for quite some time now.
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Old 09-15-2008, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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the guy is for real, everything about him shows that, he just hit a rough patch. I honestly think he might wanna go elsewhere though. the cincy management is not really the harddrive for succes. He'd be a perfect fit for miami in about two years, still young enough, a good team by then prolly, at least the right kinda management, the right sort of drafting, a place where he could go far imo
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Old 09-15-2008, 10:46 AM    (permalink
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I would like to know if he still hurt from that injury he got in the playoffs and how much did it affect his game.
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Old 09-15-2008, 11:08 AM    (permalink
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I would like to know if he still hurt from that injury he got in the playoffs and how much did it affect his game.
It has definitely screwed with his mechanics. I think what's hurt him most is our lack of run game and bad OC.

Some of you act like it would be easy for us/him to cut ties, he has a massive contract and no chance they let a QB of his age/skill walk.
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Old 09-15-2008, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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He's been screwing up my fantasy team =(.
Yeah me as well
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Old 09-15-2008, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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This is overblown, he played great defenses+amazing wind conditions. That said, I wouldn't blame Carson if he's lost his heart stuck in that awful, awful situation.
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Old 09-15-2008, 09:14 PM    (permalink
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Palmer has weapons too. When Henry comes back, he has 3 solid passing options. He has a solid run game. His oline is not the best in the world, thats where the main issue lies in terms of personnel, but its not horrible either.

People are giving Palmer a pass on things that other qbs get killed for. He's just not making great decisions with the ball. Thats all on Palmer. He leaves his WRs left out to dry a lot too. But he always gets a pass for it bc he's Carson Palmer.

Carson has been living off reputation for quite some time now.
Trust me, there is no running game here. This is a pas every down team, not run then throw, its a surprise if the offense runs. The defense always knows whats coming.

And who ever said Parcells should be the coach...HOLY **** would that be a great idea. Carson Palmer is a QB parcells drools over. Big guy, huge arm, great leadership, incrediably talented...wow, now thats a great comment.

And to the person who said he is over rated, then you don't watch him. 1 good year? What are you watching? 2004, 2005,2006 and 2007 he has been amongst the league leaders in all major stats. UNtil last year his QB rating was always above 94.0 and his TD's have been 25+ even on horrid teams. Yeah his INT's were high last year, but the Bengals were asking him to throw and win the game literally by himself. So please, if you want to talk about over rated QBs lets talk about Eli Manning. Just because you win a SB doesn't mean all is good. Just look at Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Kurt Warner and should I go on? So he has just as much to prove if not more then Carson. Eli has never been on his own, never. Next time you watch a Bengal game watch how alone Carson is out there. Chad hates life, TJ is Chads puppy dog, so whatever Chad says or does TJ isn't far behind doing the samething, the online is no where near as good, Levi Jones hasnt been awesome since his extension signing. Stacey Andrews better be the answer with all this hype they are giving him. And Chris Perry was a horrid pick and hasn't been close to living up to his potential. Its just heart breaking to watch such a great player fall victim to such non sense like this. I absolutely hate when a player can't reach his potnential because of circumstances out of his control. And thats whats happening here.
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Old 09-15-2008, 10:08 PM    (permalink
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I think Lewis was exposed last season as a very mediocre HC. It's clear the players have quite on him and he's only hanging around till his contract is up. Cincy's owner is simply too cheap to pay 2 HC's at the same time.
I see absolutely no heart in the players for Cincy and that is the HC's responsibility no matter how bad the organization is run.
Few teams are ever granted a Palmer as their QB, a true franchise player. His talent is simply wasted in Cincy and I think it is a shame. There is no way this team should be a contender for the #1 overall pick, that belongs to teams who don't have franchise QB's or anything resembling one.
There are 3 teams which truly lack the financial resources to compete in the NFL, Buffalo, Arizona and Cincy. They simply lack the money to compete on an equal footing with the rest of the league. Buffalo has improved their financial position by selling some of their games to Toronto and Arizona has a brand new stadium which has resulted in an increase in revenue. So far Cincy is still out in the cold and when you add that to bad management, their window is very narrow for success. Palmer is simply paying the price.
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Old 09-16-2008, 01:19 AM    (permalink
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There are still good piece in cincy, like there Corners a lot, rivers should galvanize that LB corps., and Peko and Geathers is a good start up front, if the Oline can get a guy like Mack to lead the way and re-establish chemistry the running game will be much more effective which will take pressure off Carson and give him time to throw.

If I were Mike Brown I'd ask Marvin to step into a different role with the team or fire him out right, find a coach who'll come in with a plan and get the players to execute his plan or leave. Personal preference would be Steve Spagnulo if he's not back with the giants as he's a guy who's players will run through a brick wall for him, I'd also give Lane Kiffin a shot with the offense as I like him as a co-ordinator.

Then let TJ walk, he's a great #2 option but this team needs a serious re-tooling and keeping expensive secondary receivers isn't a good idea for teams looking to make major changes. 85's a prima donna, but if the rest of the lockerroom is buying into the new coach then 85 won't be a problem, as he'll always be a focal point of any offense. I think if Atlanta doesn't re-sign Babineaux cincy should really make a hard play as he's still young, a very good penetrator and quick player who can distrupt the run behind the line and pressure the QB. Angelo Crowell is another player who'd be a big help as he's a very good LB who works hard and brings the type of blue collar attitude this team lacks. Heading into the draft the bengals would then be well served to add a DE with their first rounder and possibly trade up for Mack in the late first round, a great center can give a line much improved chemistry and stability. With that start I could see cincy quickly returning to contender status.
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Old 09-17-2008, 12:42 AM    (permalink
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Less then 50% comp, 200 Yards in 2 games, 4 Yards avg,
0 Td's, 3 Picks, sacked 3 times, Not the best start for sure.
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Old 09-17-2008, 02:06 AM    (permalink
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Get the man a line that protects, receivers that are productive/not injured, and a running game. He hasn't had a running game for three years. I feel sorry for Carson having to play for an organization ruled by one of the worst owners in professional sports. And it's not just two bad games he's had. It was evident last season when he threw 20 interceptions. Take away that monster Browns game and he has 21 touchdowns and 20 interceptions. Not very impressive at all.

Carson didn't play that great last season and it didn't get much better as the season went on. And now it's carried into the preseason and now the regular season. Hopefully things get turned around, but that team is so bad right now I don't see it happening. Especially in that division.
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Old 09-17-2008, 02:08 AM    (permalink
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If the Bengals just gave him a stellar oline again they'd be playoff contenders. Levi's a good LT and Andrews is a force on the otherside, but that line desperately someone to give it direction, ideally they add a center who can lead that line and have them working as a unit.
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Old 09-17-2008, 06:29 AM    (permalink
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I'm still hard pressed to drop Palmer out of my top 5 if I'm being honest.

Yes, the first two games have looked bad. Cinci is not playing well on offense, defense or special teams. You just can't overlook Palmer. The injury was unfortunate, but he's still a top QB. The Bengals, as a franchise, have so many gd problems right now it's unreal, but they definitely have the QB situation well in control.

Get a run game for him, fix up the middle of that oline, and let him do his thing.

Oh, and if this were week 8 I'd be worried. It's week 2. :)
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Old 09-17-2008, 07:13 AM    (permalink
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This is a classic case of a team that refuses to learn from past mistakes. For every step forward that the Bengals take, they take two steps back. Drafting Carson Palmer was one of the best decisions that the organization made. I actually believe it was by accident. They got very lucky. Since that day, they have failed to get lucky again and thus they have regressed. The organization has to make a drastic philosophical changes in the way they run their football team. It would take a professional to disect them all, but they need to realize that they need to make tough decisions that will put them back temporarily, but help them move forward and make real progress in the long term. The decision makers in Cincy are hard headed and they lack vision. I hope they realize this. Trading away Palmer won't solve any problems. Heck... as long as they keep drafting USC players, they'll be one their way. Keith Rivers looks great so far. Seriously though, change has to happen soon.
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