Carson Palmer, what can be done? - Page 5

yourfavestoner · 09-17-2010, 03:48 PM

Dude can't hit the broadside of a barn anymore, that elbow has had it. Stick a fork in him.

tjsunstein · 09-17-2010, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yourfavestoner

Dude can't hit the broadside of a barn anymore, that elbow has had it. Stick a fork in him.

He could if he was trying to throw over it.

FlyingElvis · 09-17-2010, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

Ahhh but FE you know we have to put that into context, the Bengals got their ass blown out before the game even started good. It was 24-3 at halftime and Carson's stats were pretty bad at that point. For the next 2 quarters all you had was Cincy running no huddle and throwing 90% of the time, and the Pats in prevent defense 70% of the time.

True, but that does a disservice to what was a damn good game by the Patriots D.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

I think once the team, OC, Marvin Lewis, or a combination of all of them figure out that Bernard Scott is really good and deserves more touches, it'll make the offense as a whole look alot better.

This hits my contention in another discussion. At some point the coaching has to be blown the **** up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

I think Carson is in that 13-18 range of QB's right now for me, if he finishes this year strong he'll be closer to fringe top 10 then he would the 20's.

Which is to say he's a good QB. Certainly not elite, not even great, but good. Simmons quote is "can we finally give up the whole "Carson Palmer is a good quarterback" thing?" By quoting him, I assume this is the same way Soybean feels, and I disagree.

Babylon · 09-17-2010, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soybean

and if they dont...?

Then there'll be 5 more pages about what's wrong with Palmer. Hey they scored 24 points against New England, until Carson starts playing defense i wouldnt blame him for everything.

LonghornsLegend · 09-17-2010, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingElvis

Which is to say he's a good QB. Certainly not elite, not even great, but good. Simmons quote is "can we finally give up the whole "Carson Palmer is a good quarterback" thing?" By quoting him, I assume this is the same way Soybean feels, and I disagree.

There are 32 starting QB's in the NFL, the 16 point would be average. Good is top 10, elite is top 3. I think Carson Palmer is a solid, average QB, which IMO would be slotted right in that range of 13-18 depending on how this season plays out.

Bengalsrocket · 09-17-2010, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yourfavestoner

Dude can't hit the broadside of a barn anymore, that elbow has had it. Stick a fork in him.

I don't want to start a huge fight because despite being a Bengals fan, I don't rank Palmer that high as a QB. But I don't see any injury effecting physically. He's not "afraid to step up" or "always over throwing his passes". He simply doesn't make the greatest of decisions out there. Sunday he threw 5-6 passes where he wasn't even on the same page as his receiver (a majority of which were Chad I believe, and that has been happening since 2007).

It was the first game of the season. Last year we lost the broncos and I remember a Packers fan predicting the Bengals to go 0-6 after week 1. Let's wait a few weeks before start all the thread necromancy and go nuts over Palmer's terrible game.

Saints-Tigers · 09-17-2010, 05:41 PM

I remember when people tried to argue that he was better than Brees.

Nalej · 09-17-2010, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babylon

Then there'll be 5 more pages about what's wrong with Palmer. Hey they scored 24 points against New England, until Carson starts playing defense i wouldnt blame him for everything.

Garbage points

A Perfect Score · 09-17-2010, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers

I remember when people tried to argue that he was better than Brees.

Thats because there was a point when he could of been better then Brees. He was the prototype for NFL QB's coming out, and up until the knee injury in the playoffs which has been discussed to death, he was on track to becoming one of the best QBs in the NFL. Make no mistake, there was most definitely a time when Carson Palmer and Drew Brees belonged in the same discussion as far as QB's go. Clearly that has changed, but it doesnt negate the fact that there was a time where that was relevant.

dan77733 · 09-17-2010, 07:56 PM

It starts with the OL. Palmer stayed in the pocket and was closed in on almost every pass play. It seems to me that the Bengals OL is good at run blocking but not at pass blocking. At least, thats the way it looked to me while watching the game.

J-Mike88 · 09-17-2010, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Perfect Score

Thats because there was a point when he could of been better then Brees. He was the prototype for NFL QB's coming out, and up until the knee injury in the playoffs which has been discussed to death, he was on track to becoming one of the best QBs in the NFL. Make no mistake, there was most definitely a time when Carson Palmer and Drew Brees belonged in the same discussion as far as QB's go. Clearly that has changed, but it doesnt negate the fact that there was a time where that was relevant.

That's correct. Good valid points, and that illustrates the fact that things change.
Favre was left for dead, was over the hill, should retire, and then he had last year.

Kurt Warner was done in St Louis, went to the NYG, and was thrown out the door there too.

Then he resurfaces in Arizona and puts on a few Hall of Fame years.

Brees was done in San Diego too when he injured his shoulder.

Two years ago, Cutler was on the fast track in Denver to superstardom.
Now what? He's up & down, and not mentioned with the Rivers and Rodgers and Romo's.

This s*** isn't in stone in the NFL.

CC.SD · 09-17-2010, 08:45 PM

It's ridic to write off this season after one game.

FlyingElvis · 09-17-2010, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC.SD

It's ridic to write off this season after one game.

I concur, totally Riddic.

Bengalsrz · 09-17-2010, 11:20 PM

I know everyone wants to believe that Palmer only started clicking last week because it was "garbage time," but Belichick and Bratkowski (Bengals OC) have both stated that the Patriots defense did not let up until there were three minutes left on the game clock.

And anyone claiming that they were garbage time points/yards is clearly just basing this off the fact that we were down so much. The Pats were sending the same types of blitz packages and there was no visible cushion in coverage.

Think what you want, he had a horrible half, but he stepped it up in the second half. Hopefully that carries over. Carson has all the intangibles and has no lack of confidence or weapons. The only thing working against him at this point is his o-line, but if the 2nd half of last week is any indication, our no huddle offense can move down the field quickly and effectively. I really think this can be the year that he brings himself back to the Elite QB Discussion, but we shall see. What do I know? I'm just a homer bengals fan...

zachsaints52 · 09-17-2010, 11:29 PM

He is gonna be Top 12 Passer this year, don't worry about him.

LonghornsLegend · 09-18-2010, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bengalsrz

And anyone claiming that they were garbage time points/yards is clearly just basing this off the fact that we were down so much....

I'm pretty sure you just contradicted yourself right here. Not sure if you know what the meaning of "garbage time" actually is...

Bengalsrz · 09-18-2010, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

I'm pretty sure you just contradicted yourself right here. Not sure if you know what the meaning of "garbage time" actually is...

Garbage time implies that the defense is playing prevent D or with a significantly larger cushion against receivers.

Yes, it was "garbage time," but New England wasn't playing garbage time defense.

You know what I meant, no need to nitpick my word choice.

ElectricEye · 09-18-2010, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bengalsrz

Garbage time implies that the defense is playing prevent D or with a significantly larger cushion against receivers.

Yes, it was "garbage time," but New England wasn't playing garbage time defense.

You know what I meant, no need to nitpick my word choice.

We were playing garbage time defense. Not prevent, but we took the heat off as we got up and subbed in some of our second string type guys more. We went waaaaaaaaay more vanilla base type defense in the second half.

I actually still believe in Carson Palmer, although he has regressed, but those were garbage points for the most part.

Bengalsrz · 09-18-2010, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectricEye

We were playing garbage time defense. Not prevent, but we took the heat off as we got up and subbed in some of our second string type guys more. We went waaaaaaaaay more vanilla base type defense in the second half.

I actually still believe in Carson Palmer, although he has regressed, but those were garbage points for the most part.

Didn't look that way to me. I've watched the game multiple times, and the defense looked very similar. I think it was the no-huddle offense that really caught the defense off balance. Regardless, Bratkowsi and Belichick already said it that their defense didn't switch up until the very end of the game.

Another thing to note, the Patriots went for it on 4th down with 2 minutes left while up 21. Doesn't really make sense for a team that is apparently trying to run up the score to allow the other teams offense to move down the field and score easily.

FlyingElvis · 09-18-2010, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bengalsrz

Another thing to note, the Patriots went for it on 4th down with 2 minutes left while up 21. Doesn't really make sense for a team that is apparently trying to run up the score to allow the other teams offense to move down the field and score easily.

Honestly, I shouldn't even waste the keystrokes required to type it, but . . .

3 points is completely meaningless at that point. A first down, on the other hand, allows you to kneel and run out the clock.

Rosebud · 09-18-2010, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bengalsrz

Garbage time implies that the defense is playing prevent D or with a significantly larger cushion against receivers.

Yes, it was "garbage time," but New England wasn't playing garbage time defense.

You know what I meant, no need to nitpick my word choice.

Nah, the implication of garbage time isn't so simply schematic, it also includes the fact that a lot of players ease up when they're up big, focusing more on staying healthy and protecting the lead than going out and making a play or a stop. While it's true that some teams go prevent, that's not the only implication of garbage time.

Bengalsrz · 09-18-2010, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingElvis

Honestly, I shouldn't even waste the keystrokes required to type it, but . . .

3 points is completely meaningless at that point. A first down, on the other hand, allows you to kneel and run out the clock.

Pretty darn sure it was 4th and goal, actually.

And Carson's 2nd half stats can be interpreted however way we want them to be. I'm sure I'm speaking with a bit of bias here, but I do think there's a lot of truth to what I'm saying. Let's just let the season play out and see what happens. Or at least Week 2.

SenorGato · 09-19-2010, 12:26 AM

I hope Palmer wins a Super Bowl before he retires.

FlyingElvis · 09-20-2010, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bengalsrz

Pretty darn sure it was 4th and goal, actually.

No, it wasn't. It was 4th & 2 at the 7.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201009...ost-playbyplay

Bengalsrz · 09-20-2010, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingElvis

No, it wasn't. It was 4th & 2 at the 7.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201009...ost-playbyplay

Ah, the game was taken off the air and I thought I saw that on gamecenter. I'll eat my crow on that one.