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Old 09-18-2008, 09:27 PM    (permalink
smittyjs
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I would put KVB around #7 to #10 top DE's, Super mario is my #1 DE, beast is the only word for him.
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Old 09-18-2008, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CutlerChris View Post
If the categories were "run-stopping" and "pass-rushing" I would understand, but a "complete" DE is one that can both get after the quarterback very well, and stop the run. Placing Mario in the pass rushing category, when a complete category is available makes it seem like he is not an excellent run-stopper, and is wrong.
duly noted...
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Old 09-18-2008, 10:13 PM    (permalink
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1. Mario Williams
2. Aaron Kampman
3. Jared Allen
4. Justin Tuck
5. Kyle Vanden Bosch
6. Osi Umenyiora
7. Will Smith
8. Patrick Kerney
9. Dwight Freeney
10. John Abraham
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Old 09-18-2008, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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I think Will Smith and Charles Grant would be a lot higher if we were still in a defensive scheme similar to Jim Haslett's, where they both excelled, and Will Smith was getting better and better(he had like 8 sacks as the third DE on the team).

Our scheme now almost has them playing like 3-4 DE's, where they occupy blockers and stop the run, it's almost like Sean Payton doesn't like to pressure QB's....

I think they are two guys you really have to watch on a consistent basis to see how excellent they are, and they are both extremely complete.
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Old 09-19-2008, 01:20 AM    (permalink
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Upon further review of my late night list, I've made some changes. Here is my 4-3 list.

1. Aaron Kampman
2. Mario Williams
3. Jared Allen
4. Justin Tuck
5. Dwight Freeney
6. Aaron Schoebel
7. Kyle Vanden Bosch
8. Trent Cole
9. Jason Taylor
10. Will Smith

I left Umenyiora off the list this time, because of obvious reasons. After reviewing it though, there are a ton of quality defensive ends. Like we're talkin' 20-25 great defensive ends. I'm surprised Schoebel isn't a lot higher on people's lists, as well.
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Old 09-19-2008, 01:33 AM    (permalink
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I'm not sure he deserves top 10 billing, but Derrick Burgess should get some credit for what he's done since he came to Oakland.

Last three years...

Derrick Burgess - 35 sacks
Aaron Kampman - 34 sacks
Jared Allen - 34 sacks
Osi Umenyiora - 33.5 sacks

And according to Stats LLC, Burgess led the NFL in quarterback hurries with 18 despite only playing 14 games in 2007. He's not the very best against the run, but he's done a decent job of playing mostly LE for Oakland and I'm surprised the number of people naming guys like Trent Cole and John Abraham above him.
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Old 09-19-2008, 02:56 AM    (permalink
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I think Kampman and Super Mario are the two most complete defensive ends in the NFL at the moment. I think Umenyiora is one of the better ends, but he's not better than either Kampman or Williams.

As for Peppers, he's still a good defensive end, he just hasn't had some luck to register the sacks. He's been in on every play and still gets held a lot. He might not have the stat line at the moment but his presence is being felt early and often.
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Old 09-19-2008, 08:46 AM    (permalink
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1. Aaron Kampman
2. Jared Allen
3. Osi Umenyiora
4. Mario Williams
5. Jason Taylor
6. Kyle Vanden Bosch
7. Dwight Freeney
8. Patrick Kerney
9. Aaron Schobel
10. Derrick Burgess

Last edited by Sweepem : 09-19-2008 at 10:14 AM.
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Old 09-19-2008, 10:07 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iBoldin View Post
Upon further review of my late night list, I've made some changes. Here is my 4-3 list.

1. Aaron Kampman
2. Mario Williams
3. Jared Allen
4. Justin Tuck
5. Dwight Freeney
6. Aaron Schoebel
7. Kyle Vanden Bosch
8. Trent Cole
9. Jason Taylor
10. Will Smith

I left Umenyiora off the list this time, because of obvious reasons. After reviewing it though, there are a ton of quality defensive ends. Like we're talkin' 20-25 great defensive ends. I'm surprised Schoebel isn't a lot higher on people's lists, as well.
Patrick Kerney is better than at least four guys on that list.
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Old 09-19-2008, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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I'm curious as to what Julius Peppers has done the past two years to warrant being on some of these lists.
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Old 09-19-2008, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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I'm curious as to what Julius Peppers has done the past two years to warrant being on some of these lists.
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Old 09-19-2008, 11:04 AM    (permalink
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Julius Peppers
Mario
Osi
Jason Tuck
John Abraham
Freeney
Allen
Cole
Kerney
Kapman
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Old 09-19-2008, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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Julius Peppers
Mario
Osi
Jason Tuck
John Abraham
Freeney
Allen
Cole
Kerney
Kapman
are you ******* serious? like really. ****.
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Old 09-19-2008, 11:11 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ShyneQuasiOG22 View Post
1. Mario Williams
2. Aaron Kampman
3. Jared Allen
4. Osi Umenyiora (when healthy)
5. Julius Peppers
6. Justin Tuck
7. Patrick Kerney
8. Jason Taylor
9. Dwight Freeney
10. Richard Seymour
how is arron schobel not on your list
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Old 09-19-2008, 11:25 AM    (permalink
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how is arron schobel not on your list
It's ok. He left off KVB as well. He's just putting names on a list.
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Old 09-19-2008, 11:27 AM    (permalink
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Anyone else think that if David Pollack didn't get so many injuries, he would be on this list?
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I don't have to watch it to know it was not interesting.
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Old 09-19-2008, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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Anyone else think that if David Pollack didn't get so many injuries, he would be on this list?
Uhm, weren't they playing him at OLB?
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Old 09-19-2008, 11:30 AM    (permalink
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Anyone else think that if David Pollack didn't get so many injuries, he would be on this list?
I do. I thought he was going to be a beast
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Old 09-19-2008, 11:30 AM    (permalink
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Uhm, weren't they playing him at OLB?
Were they really??? Damn, I still think he could have been great. I hate you Bengals!
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I don't have to watch it to know it was not interesting.
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Old 09-19-2008, 12:23 PM    (permalink
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Were they really??? Damn, I still think he could have been great. I hate you Bengals!
He was doing great until the injury, he was just a microcosm of what the Bengals had been the past decade
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Old 09-19-2008, 12:28 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure he deserves top 10 billing, but Derrick Burgess should get some credit for what he's done since he came to Oakland.

Last three years...

Derrick Burgess - 35 sacks
Aaron Kampman - 34 sacks
Jared Allen - 34 sacks
Osi Umenyiora - 33.5 sacks

And according to Stats LLC, Burgess led the NFL in quarterback hurries with 18 despite only playing 14 games in 2007. He's not the very best against the run, but he's done a decent job of playing mostly LE for Oakland and I'm surprised the number of people naming guys like Trent Cole and John Abraham above him.

This is true, but he has only had two good years in his whole career.. If he can do that again this year I think he should get consideration too. He has very good potential, and flashed it those two years, especially 2005.
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Old 09-19-2008, 12:31 PM    (permalink
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are you ******* serious? like really. ****.
Hahahah you'd be suprised how many non Giants fans think it's Jason Tuck, based on stupid Aikman saying that a few times. That's not the first time I heard someone call Justin, Jason Tuck, lol. I mean after a while you'd think someone would hear it the right way. It's like going around saying Tim Brady is the best QB, or that Shane Merriman is a beast.
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Old 09-19-2008, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Addict View Post
He's way to injury-prone, which might just drop him out of the top 10. IMO, he could go anywhere between 8-12.
Could say the same thing about Freeney, IMO he's way to high on these lists and is it just DEs or do 3-4 outside linebackers count?

1. Aaron Kampman
2. Mario Williams
3. Jared Allen
4. Kyle Vanden Bosch
5. Julius Peppers
6. Patrick Kearney
7. Trent Cole
8. Jason Taylor
9. Derrick Burgess
10. Dwight Freeney
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Old 09-19-2008, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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Herm Edwards plans to block John Abraham with 3 people.
He will have at least two sacks maybe three.
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Old 09-19-2008, 07:57 PM    (permalink
Paranoidmoonduck
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This is true, but he has only had two good years in his whole career.. If he can do that again this year I think he should get consideration too. He has very good potential, and flashed it those two years, especially 2005.
And he's only played a full 16 games in those two years. And he played damn good football last year while playing on a barren defensive line. I'm just surprised how many people put Trent Cole on their top 10 lists, because I don't think he even comes close to Burgess.
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