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Old 10-05-2008, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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Albert Haynesworth, not close.
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Old 10-05-2008, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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I must not be watching enough of the Giants, because Tuck as the best defensive player in the league is a ridiculous argument to me. Yes he had a great Superbowl, but best player? I'd rather have Osi.

I dunno...if more than Giants fans start making that argument I might buy it, but I don't see it.

And my vote goes to Haynesworth.
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Old 10-05-2008, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
I must not be watching enough of the Giants, because Tuck as the best defensive player in the league is a ridiculous argument to me. Yes he had a great Superbowl, but best player? I'd rather have Osi.

I dunno...if more than Giants fans start making that argument I might buy it, but I don't see it.

And my vote goes to Haynesworth.
I think their implication was he was better than Williams, not necessarily the NFL's best player.
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Old 10-05-2008, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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I must not be watching enough of the Giants, because Tuck as the best defensive player in the league is a ridiculous argument to me. Yes he had a great Superbowl, but best player? I'd rather have Osi.

I dunno...if more than Giants fans start making that argument I might buy it, but I don't see it.

And my vote goes to Haynesworth.
Tuck is a fine player, but not the best in the league. It's fun to watch him blow by linemen before they even get out of their stances, but he needs to make more of an impact off the edge before I label him in the same tier as Williams-Kampman-Osi.
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Old 10-05-2008, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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I must not be watching enough of the Giants, because Tuck as the best defensive player in the league is a ridiculous argument to me. Yes he had a great Superbowl, but best player? I'd rather have Osi.

I dunno...if more than Giants fans start making that argument I might buy it, but I don't see it.

And my vote goes to Haynesworth.

I too would rather have Osi. Tuck needs more time starting and I guess consistancy to be the best in the NFL
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Old 10-05-2008, 04:50 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
I must not be watching enough of the Giants, because Tuck as the best defensive player in the league is a ridiculous argument to me. Yes he had a great Superbowl, but best player? I'd rather have Osi.

I dunno...if more than Giants fans start making that argument I might buy it, but I don't see it.

And my vote goes to Haynesworth.
I'm not making that argument, I'm arguing he's as worthy as Mario Williams at the moment who's also been incredible at times and invisible at times. Tuck has been simply incredible at times this season and less dominant at others, but he's never been completely invisible like Mario still sometimes does, which is why I think that Mario's claim for DPOY is on par with Tuck's.

Haynesworth has my vote as well, I really hope he keeps this level of play up once he signs that long term contract this summer because he's just a joy to watch.
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Old 10-05-2008, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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WK 1: 2 sacks
WK 2: Bye
WK 3: 0 sacks
WK 4: 0 sacks
WK 5: 2 sacks

Entering this week's game, Houston's total DEF is 25th in the league, 30th in points allowed, and 27th against the run. Houston's record is 0-4.

He's inconsistent from week to week, plays on a bad defense, and doesn't play for a contendor. Personally, I think he's over-rated. At the end of last year when he got the bulk of his sacks, he tallied a quarter of those sacks when he was blocked by a TE, RB, or unblocked all together. That's partly why he missed the Pro Bowl, though most of it was because he got hot when it was too late to make an effect on the voters.

I think it's funny how before the season started, the Texans were supposed to have a great front seven with Mario, Okoye, Johnson, and Ryans, and all of the sudden he's surrounded by nobodies.

Mario Williams is a very good player now, and has much potential for the future. But, there are other players who are better right now, and Mario's potential doesn't make him presently better than they are. He could very well end up being a Pro Bowl DE, and he'd be deserving of it. But he's not deserving of being crowned the best defensive player in the NFL.

Besides, there are plenty of other freakish defensive players like Super Mario, one of them being Albert Haynesworth. It's his award to lose at this point.
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Old 10-05-2008, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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Tuck is a fine player, but not the best in the league. It's fun to watch him blow by linemen before they even get out of their stances, but he needs to make more of an impact off the edge before I label him in the same tier as Williams-Kampman-Osi.
See I don't know if we're ever going to really see Tuck have the impact off the edge that the elite DEs do because his greatest impact is inside as pass rushing UT, that's where he really stands out and can dominate. When Osi gets back next season, hopefully we'll also draft a project DE for depth, Tuck will be able to fill that role with two exceptional pass rushers on the outside which'll do wonders for his consistency at which point he'd have a case for best in the league.
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Old 10-05-2008, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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must I break out the curb-stomp pic?

and he's not even the best defender on your team...

I mean he's a beast and all, but still
Wait, what....

Albert Haynesworth was the best defensive player in all of football last year. And that has continued into this season as well.
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Old 10-05-2008, 05:04 PM    (permalink
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WK 1: 2 sacks
WK 2: Bye
WK 3: 0 sacks
WK 4: 0 sacks
WK 5: 2 sacks

Entering this week's game, Houston's total DEF is 25th in the league, 30th in points allowed, and 27th against the run. Houston's record is 0-4.

He's inconsistent from week to week, plays on a bad defense, and doesn't play for a contendor. Personally, I think he's over-rated. At the end of last year when he got the bulk of his sacks, he tallied a quarter of those sacks when he was blocked by a TE, RB, or unblocked all together. That's partly why he missed the Pro Bowl, though most of it was because he got hot when it was too late to make an effect on the voters.

I think it's funny how before the season started, the Texans were supposed to have a great front seven with Mario, Okoye, Johnson, and Ryans, and all of the sudden he's surrounded by nobodies.

Mario Williams is a very good player now, and has much potential for the future. But, there are other players who are better right now, and Mario's potential doesn't make him presently better than they are. He could very well end up being a Pro Bowl DE, and he'd be deserving of it. But he's not deserving of being crowned the best defensive player in the NFL.

Besides, there are plenty of other freakish defensive players like Super Mario, one of them being Albert Haynesworth. It's his award to lose at this point.
I hate the fact that after today's game I have to come on here to actually defend someone from my team but don't just list the sacks and say he was invisible the other games. Mario had about 5 pressures against Jacksonville in week 4 and got after Kerry Collins the week before that. He is also making plays behind the LOS in the running game at a regular clip. There has not been a game this year that he has been "invisible". If you want to play with stats how about this one: Mario Williams sacks: 4, Rest of the Houston Texans sacks: 1

Having said that, I don't know why the heck this thread was started today. Until the Texans can do something on defense as a whole with more consistency, even if Mario plays absolutely lights out, he does not deserve this type of label.
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Old 10-05-2008, 05:17 PM    (permalink
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I hate the fact that after today's game I have to come on here to actually defend someone from my team but don't just list the sacks and say he was invisible the other games. Mario had about 5 pressures against Jacksonville in week 4 and got after Kerry Collins the week before that. He is also making plays behind the LOS in the running game at a regular clip. There has not been a game this year that he has been "invisible". If you want to play with stats how about this one: Mario Williams sacks: 4, Rest of the Houston Texans sacks: 1
I never once said he was invisible. Not once. So don't put words in my mouth.

As for sacks, yeah they don't tell the whole story. But there are tons of players who can hurry a QB. Just like DB's with pass defenses. Good DB's can get those, but the best intercept it as well.

The rest of the Texans' DEF only having 1 sack says what? That Williams is playing at such an elite level that his teammates can't keep up, or that they can't rush the passer and Williams is the only one who can?

Defend your player. That's fine. But don't point me out by putting words in my mouth when I didn't do anything but state reality.
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Old 10-05-2008, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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I suppose I saw someone else say invisible earlier in the thread but you might as well have said it. "Inconsistent and over-rated" I believe ARE direct quotes from you so I apologize for misquoting. For the record I think that is crazy talk. I also happen to think Haynesworth is the premier defender in the NFL.
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Old 10-05-2008, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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Count me in the Haynesworth crowd. He's just on a different planet from everyone else.
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Old 10-05-2008, 06:53 PM    (permalink
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At the moment I'd also say Haynesworth is the best defensive player (and therefore lineman) around, last year I'd put merriman and urlacher in there as well but with merriman out and urlacher slowly getting old and haynesworth getting ever better he is the man for me. As for defensive ends Mario Williams is right up there. He is prolly the best physical DE but he would be insaine if he had the instincts and the adaptability of a jared allen or a justin tuck.
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Old 10-05-2008, 07:08 PM    (permalink
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I'd like to say Bob Sanders if he were healthy.
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Old 10-05-2008, 07:53 PM    (permalink
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I never once said he was invisible. Not once. So don't put words in my mouth.

As for sacks, yeah they don't tell the whole story. But there are tons of players who can hurry a QB. Just like DB's with pass defenses. Good DB's can get those, but the best intercept it as well.

The rest of the Texans' DEF only having 1 sack says what? That Williams is playing at such an elite level that his teammates can't keep up, or that they can't rush the passer and Williams is the only one who can?

Defend your player. That's fine. But don't point me out by putting words in my mouth when I didn't do anything but state reality.
The fact that Mario is the only one who can rush the passer makes it harder on him to do so. They can key in on him because no one else will make any noise. It isn't basketball where SOMEONE has to grab a rebound or get buckets, if no one puts pressure on the QB, he isn't getting sacked.

As for Albert Haynesworth, I'll believe that. The Titans are 5-0 and I can't think of one reason why, other than him. But I do think Mario is the best DE, and have since he exploded onto the scene last year. I personally watched him manhandle Denver, and even though we sucked, I was convinced.

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I think it's funny how before the season started, the Texans were supposed to have a great front seven with Mario, Okoye, Johnson, and Ryans, and all of the sudden he's surrounded by nobodies.
At the beginning of the season, The Colts were supposed to be dominant, the Broncos were supposed to suck, the Giants were supposed to be a fluke, and the Bengals were expected to at least have an offense. Get that "at the beginning of the season" **** out of here.
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Old 10-05-2008, 07:55 PM    (permalink
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As for Albert Haynesworth, I'll believe that. The Titans are 5-0 and I can't think of one reason why, other than him.
All Vince Young does is win games when he's injured.
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Old 10-05-2008, 07:58 PM    (permalink
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All Vince Young does is win games when he's injured.
He hasn't thrown a pick since week 1!
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Old 10-05-2008, 08:02 PM    (permalink
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John Abraham is the man. 7 sacks on the year, should have 8 but there was intentional grounding. The defensive end on the other side of the line has 0 (zero, like the number below one) sacks in 21 career games. He drove back the Packers OT like 4 yards on a run play today, he kills screen and counter pursuit, and last year we lined him up at LB during 3-4 looks, where he covered Maurice Jones Drew and Matt Jones, both 4.3/4.4 second forty yard dash guys, down the field. He also has a blocked punt this year.

John Abraham is the man.
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Old 10-05-2008, 08:07 PM    (permalink
A Perfect Score
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F you guys, Ray Lewis is still the best defensive player in the NFL...after watching him last monday against the Steelers, anyone who thinks he cant play anymore is flat out stupid. :)

yay, I can be a homer too!


But for serious, I watched the game. Mario is a beast, but like many have said, I wanna see some more consistency from him before I name him the best defensive player in the NFL.
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Old 10-05-2008, 08:26 PM    (permalink
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Demeco Ryans is just as important to the Texans defense as Mario is.
I disagree, without someone like Mario on that d-line, there wouldn't be any open lanes for Ryans to make plays.
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Old 10-05-2008, 08:28 PM    (permalink
Bruce Banner
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I disagree, without someone like Mario on that d-line, there wouldn't be any open lanes for Ryans to make plays.
Wouldn't a terrible defensive line allow the offense to create lanes for running backs? Where they would be met by....linebackers?
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Old 10-05-2008, 08:29 PM    (permalink
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The Chargers are currently making the case for Shawne Merriman.
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Old 10-05-2008, 08:37 PM    (permalink
PACKmanN
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Wouldn't a terrible defensive line allow the offense to create lanes for running backs? Where they would be met by....linebackers?
My point was that a guy like Mario on that d-line makes it easer for everyone else. So does Albert. They demand double teams on every play, leaving someone else on the d-line or when a linebacker blitz to get blocked by one guy or none.
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Old 10-05-2008, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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John Abraham is the man. 7 sacks on the year, should have 8 but there was intentional grounding. The defensive end on the other side of the line has 0 (zero, like the number below one) sacks in 21 career games. He drove back the Packers OT like 4 yards on a run play today, he kills screen and counter pursuit, and last year we lined him up at LB during 3-4 looks, where he covered Maurice Jones Drew and Matt Jones, both 4.3/4.4 guys, down the field. He also has a blocked punt this year.

John Abraham is the man.

I'm in full support of this. This year, give me Abraham every day of the week. Haynesworth has been a force though.
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