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Old 10-06-2008, 11:15 PM    (permalink
MarioPalmer
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Default Reggie Bush after 2 years and 5 games?

So, after a awesome SPECIAL TEAMS performance and yet another pedestrian performance as a running back is it safe to say that Reggie Bush is a scat back that is a much better KR/PR than franchise back that can go out for the pass? My question to Saints fans or Reggie Bush fans is this, right now; would you rather have Adrian Peterson or Reggie Bush? I know which one I would pick, but I wanted to know who you would pick.

Iíve seen Bush play 3 times this year and I am even less impressed than I was last year. I think that his offensive potential is limited enormously and that he is only best used as the 2nd back on the depth chart and the primary 3rd down back. The running plays just donít work for him. He has less than adequate strength to hold up running between the tackles and his sped is negated by the speed of NFL defenders that can meet him at the corner when he tries to turn it. He has also fallen into some very bad habits in terms of his running technique. He has one hand on the ball and holds it away from his body. Twice tonight, once after a run and once after a catch he had the ball knocked, not stripped, but knocked away from his body because he was holding it to the outside of his body and because he was waving it around.

With the accuracy of Drew Bees and the offensive potential of the Saints offense I would have thought that by now Reggie Bush would be their go to guy and he is clearly not. He is being used as a scat back and a primary 3rd down player in passing downs. Also, I have yet to see him stand in and block for Brees on passing downs as well. Maybe the Saints donít want to use him that way, but none the less he needs to be at least a solid blocker to be considered a great all around player.

May concerns are this; I feel that Reggie Bush has found his nich in the NFL. He is the new Desmond Howard. By that I mean he is a much dangerous player when in space and what better place to put Bush in space than on kick return and punt returns. I have a feeling that he will not be resigned as a franchise back and that the only way he resigns after the 2010 season is as a KR/PR/3rd down back. So to me that means that his value at #2 overall was grossly misjudged and that in the classic terms of bust he might fit the bill.

I say this because I look at top feature backs that are picked in the top 10 to be one type of player and that is a feature back that can carry the load and carry his team on his back. I look at guys like Adrian Peterson, Ronnie Brown, LaDainain Tomlinson, Ricky Williams, Jamal Lewis, Edgerrin James, Fred Taylor, etc. I see the Reggie Bush pick as successful as the Desmond Howard pick at most, no more no less. There really isnít a way to defend the argument if you would pick Bush over a feature back that is also picked as high as he was. And I also feel that this is what we will get from him the rest of his career. I look at Reggie Bush as a Felix Jones and thatís where I believe that Bush should have been drafted now looking back on the 2006 NFL Draft. I would like to say that he may be as good as Chris Johnson, but Johnson has proven to be able to carry a heavy load and the ability to run through the tackles with enough power and strength to hold up. Bush to me is not the savior that he was made out to be and I think that he is only getting a pass right now because of his special teams ability.

What do you guys think?
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:24 PM    (permalink
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Hes damn good at catching the ball out of the back field and when he gets open space hes a great runner, some plays he was dodging hits in the back field, not his fault when guys are in the backfield when hes getting the ball.
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:24 PM    (permalink
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I think Reggie Bush helps his team a lot. If the Saints had a chance to take Adrian Peterson that would be one thing, but they didn't, so I don't know what point you are trying to a make. With the players that were available, I think they made the best pick that they could have.
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:26 PM    (permalink
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Why does Reggie get flamed, but every other back gets the pass for poor blocking?

I think this game showed more than anything that no one can run with poor blocking, not Reggie, not Deuce, not even Adrian Peterson.
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:27 PM    (permalink
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I think most people would take AD of course, but Bush is good at what he does. He is still a gamechanger, but he's not a "RB." Honestly, if he was labeled as a "WR" that caught balls in the flats and tore it up with YAC, he'd be looked at as one of the best WRs right now in the game.
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:27 PM    (permalink
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Mario Williams was clearly the better pick two years later. I would love to see the tape of the ESPN analysts absolutely blasting the Texans for taking Super Mario right now.

Reggie Bush is dynamic and electrifying -- but not an every down player. He is soooo afraid of contact it's disturbing.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have him on my team (not like we'd use him properly).

On any other team outside of MAYBE Dallas, I don't think he has half the success that he has now.
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:28 PM    (permalink
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If Reggie ran behind Dallas or Philly's line, his YPC would be ungodly.
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:33 PM    (permalink
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If Reggie can just improve his running game a bit I will say that he was worth the pick. I've been skeptical for a while but he changed that game around for the Saints big time today and has been great catching the ball this year. Also needs to work on ball security a bit but I think that problem goes hand in hand with his running because I think hes so focused on breaking a big one that a defender can catch him by surprise.
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:35 PM    (permalink
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I just want someone to explain why our two other RB's, who have proven consistency as runners behind good run blocking, can't run the ball for **** right now either.

Anyone?
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers View Post
I just want someone to explain why our two other RB's, who have proven consistency as runners behind good run blocking, can't run the ball for **** right now either.

Anyone?
Maybe its just a mentality thing? You guys throw the ball so much and are so successful at it that maybe you are just not getting into a rhythm with the ground game. Also Deuce doesn't look like himself, is he much more than a short yardage guy now? Just a thought, I don't watch the Saints enough to say with much certainty.
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers View Post
Why does Reggie get flamed, but every other back gets the pass for poor blocking?

I think this game showed more than anything that no one can run with poor blocking, not Reggie, not Deuce, not even Adrian Peterson.
his career ypc is under 4 thats why. The Saints block well inside but Bush has this never ending need to take everything outside.
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:41 PM    (permalink
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Maybe its just a mentality thing? You guys throw the ball so much and are so successful at it that maybe you are just not getting into a rhythm with the ground game. Also Deuce doesn't look like himself, is he much more than a short yardage guy now? Just a thought, I don't watch the Saints enough to say with much certainty.
Exactly! we abandon the run way to early, strong running teams start out running, but its in the end of the game where all the big yards come. Deuce looks better than he did in 06, shiftier for sure, and quicker.

illmatic, if you think we block well inside, I really don't know what to say, and if we did, Ican't figure out why no one can run up the middle, not Deuce, or Thomas, or Bush.
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:47 PM    (permalink
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On any other team outside of MAYBE Dallas, I don't think he has half the success that he has now.
I think Bush would succeed mightily in the Packers offense.
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:47 PM    (permalink
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I just want someone to explain why our two other RB's, who have proven consistency as runners behind good run blocking, can't run the ball for **** right now either.

Anyone?
I wasn't trying to flame Reggie Bush, I think that we as fans, well as knowledgable fans, see that Bush is what he is, a KR/PR/Scat back. I'm not saying he isn't great at what he does, I definitly think he is, but I think considering where he was drafted that he has let down a lot of people. I looked at him coming out of college as a game changing offensive player that would be the go to guy like he was at USC. But he isn't, and he hasn't been. In other ways he has definitly helped out his team, but I think that he is more of a slash type player than a true position and to me personally he doesn't warrent his draft status.

I truely believe that if the Saints could have done it all over again, and with them still getting Marques Colston in the 7th they would have gone the other way, knowing then what they know now.

I would definitly see them benefitingmore from a Haloti Ngata pick, A.J. Hawk, Donte Whitnor (even though safeties don't go top 3) or even Ernie Sims. I think that Reggie Bush is what he is.

My original point of this thread was to discuss Reggie Bush because I was actually insulted when Tony Kornheiser was saying that Reggie Bush was this all world back that had this break out game. It, to me, to a knowledgable fan, was quite insulting. He kept going on how Adrian Peterson should take notes of Reggie Bush's play style and I had to ask myself, before I almost kicked in my TV, is the Reggie Bush college hype still following this guy around? I know he is good at what he does, but the love for a player that has normal impact for a player at his position is mind boggling.
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:49 PM    (permalink
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The Saints are using Bush correctly. Bush shouldn't be blamed for the running back woes there. USC laid out the blue print on how to use Bush. It's just that the Saints don't have that powerful RB ala LenDale White. People who thought Bush was ever going to be a powerful inside runner were foolish to think that in the first place. People who thought he'd be a dynamic weapon see that in fruition.
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:50 PM    (permalink
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i am a huge reggie fan annnnd tonight he was constantly breaking tackles in the backfield to get back to the LOS.

with reggie you're obviously not going to use him as an in between the tackles runner every down but you can and he will get you 2-3 yards consistantly, but when you run him to the outside where he will consistantly get you better gains.

on top of that he gets mismatches all the time coming out of the backfield with linebackers and safeties. and really with all this happening defenses clue into reggie and gameplan on how to stop this and when they double cover him it just opens up so many more things to happen.

now with his blocking tonight, i was suuuuper impressed with the way he handled a lot of blocks, he is really improving a lot in this area.

to top this off, he is just the definition of a playmaker.with special teams he usually wins the field position battle for you and once and awhile he'll take one back for a touchdown. reggie is really starting to pick it up this year and im excited for it.

i love the pick and think he'll continue to progress and be a great runningback.
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:50 PM    (permalink
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Oh, and Saints Tigers, your right about Deuce, he looks like a beast again. Like his old self. I've always loved Deuce, he just oozes NFL quality power back and it's really fun to watch him play.

I give him till about the 8th game till he finally feels extremely confident and puts up his power numbers again. Give him a couple of more weeks and I think his sawagger will come back. Oh, and I will say one thing, OG Duke Robinson from Oklahoma will look mighty good in the Saints' Black and Gold...lol
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:51 PM    (permalink
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I just disagree though, you can't run without blocking, Adrian Peterson learned that tonight.

No one can run, we haven't been able to run the ball since the second half of 2006, and Reggie and Deuce were both running wild, but we CANT run the ball with anyone right now, because there are no running lanes to the inside, all of it has to go outside, it's just how it is until we fix our issues on the line.

This still all sounds eerily similar to Brian Westbrook back in the day, I know people will say it's different now, but the EXACT same things were said when he was the second guy to Duce Staley.
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:52 PM    (permalink
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I think Bush will get the credit he deserves later in his career, now he is suspect to many viewers due to his lack of being a conventional running back but the guy leads his team in recs every year and he is a game changer. I think 10 years from now people will really look at his career and say he has changed the position of a conventional running back bush,westbrook. Teams will look for backs like them who are versatile like that and really spread the defense with there play.
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:52 PM    (permalink
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If you look at DeSean Jackson that's right around the kinda player Bush could be as a wideout, imo. However in saying that he's too valuable of a weapon in the Saints offense at the moment to consider such a radical move anytime soon.
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:52 PM    (permalink
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The Saints didn't draft Reggie to be a #1 runningback, they drafted him for his athleticism and his game changing ability. Get him on returns, put him in the slot, he's not going to be a 20-25 carry guy and everyone knew that when he came out of college. But he will be a player who touches the ball 20-25 times. Maybe he hasn't met peoples expectations, heck who could? He was being compared to the next Gale Sayers. But he most certainly is not a bust and IMO is worth the #2 draft pick the Saints took him at.
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:54 PM    (permalink
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Thats cool critesy, I wanted to know from Saints and Bush fans what you guys see. I don't think he's not a playmaker, I just don't see the super man ability that others see. I think he is best suited for short passes that put him in space and letting him take returns for, like you said, field position and the ability to break a long one. I guess if the Dolphins take Ted Ginn Jr. in the top 10 then the Saints taking Bush in the top 3 isn't that much out of the ordinary. I just wish maybe that he was more consistent running the ball and being more of a Marshal Faulk then Felix Jones type.
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:55 PM    (permalink
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Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Originally Posted by MarioPalmer View Post
Oh, and Saints Tigers, your right about Deuce, he looks like a beast again. Like his old self. I've always loved Deuce, he just oozes NFL quality power back and it's really fun to watch him play.

I give him till about the 8th game till he finally feels extremely confident and puts up his power numbers again. Give him a couple of more weeks and I think his sawagger will come back. Oh, and I will say one thing, OG Duke Robinson from Oklahoma will look mighty good in the Saints' Black and Gold...lol

I love you.

all of it, I love you.

I just left my girl, I'm coming get you.

I knew Deuce was back when he leaped into the endzone last week, his explosion was there!

I think Reggie will be fine though, but maybe everyone has different expectations, but if we sure up the offensive line, and he gets up over 4 yards a carry, and gets to 1200-1300 rushing yards, with his big play ability, and his receiving, I'd say he's a huge success.

I agree with Critesy though, he really doesn't get the credit he deserves just for getting back to the line when he's hit in the backfield.

I want Duke Robinson badly, and I want Stinchcomb and Goodwin out baddererer.

I'll take Duke and Alex Mack as our first picks in the draft, and be ecstatic :D

Edit: Also, Reggie would beast in Felix Jones role. Did you see his run yesterday? have you ever seen a run where Reggie takes a toss and gets to run untouched into the endzone?
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:55 PM    (permalink
illmatic74
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Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers View Post
Exactly! we abandon the run way to early, strong running teams start out running, but its in the end of the game where all the big yards come. Deuce looks better than he did in 06, shiftier for sure, and quicker.

illmatic, if you think we block well inside, I really don't know what to say, and if we did, Ican't figure out why no one can run up the middle, not Deuce, or Thomas, or Bush.
It wasn't great tonight but in Bush's career with New Orleans Deuce and thomas have had higher yards per carry.
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Old 10-07-2008, 12:00 AM    (permalink
Kurve
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Kurve hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.Kurve hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
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Mario Williams was clearly the better pick two years later. I would love to see the tape of the ESPN analysts absolutely blasting the Texans for taking Super Mario right now.

Reggie Bush is dynamic and electrifying -- but not an every down player. He is soooo afraid of contact it's disturbing.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have him on my team (not like we'd use him properly).

On any other team outside of MAYBE Dallas, I don't think he has half the success that he has now.

Big question to what shocked people about the whole mario deal was the fact that mario really wasnt that consistent in college we all know how many prospects become busts due to lack of performance in college and mainly on measurables. Luckily for texas it panned out but i think any team would of taken up a player like mario if he played up to his measurables in college.
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