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Old 10-07-2008, 12:02 AM    (permalink
Saints-Tigers
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Also, the one last thing, people always say he's not going to carry it 20-25 times a game... but that's ALWAYS when he's had his best performances, when he gets a rhythm with consistent carries.

He was 5'10.5 and 206 pounds at the combine, and he benched 225 like 24 times, and he's certainly bigger than that now, and he's never really been injury prone.

When he first got here, he was horrid as a runner, trying to hit homeruns every play, but during the second half of his rookie season, he figured it out, he went from like 2.6 to 4.5 yards per carry from the first 8 games, to the second 8. in 2007, the line was total trash, no one could run again, then Jonathan Goodwin emerged in Jeff Faine's wake, and it seemed like it would work out, but he has been pretty disappointing this year, and once again, we are having trouble with everyone.

Just open some holes, create some cutback lanes, and Reggie will be fine. He's not going to excel if he has to break tackles in the backfield all game. Give him some huge maulers, and let him get to the second level where he does his real damage.

He needs to wrap the ball up a bit better though, he tends to just let it go as he goes down.
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Old 10-07-2008, 12:03 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by holt_bruce81 View Post
The Saints didn't draft Reggie to be a #1 runningback, they drafted him for his athleticism and his game changing ability. Get him on returns, put him in the slot, he's not going to be a 20-25 carry guy and everyone knew that when he came out of college. But he will be a player who touches the ball 20-25 times. Maybe he hasn't met peoples expectations, heck who could? He was being compared to the next Gale Sayers. But he most certainly is not a bust and IMO is worth the #2 draft pick the Saints took him at.
He is not even the best HB in his own draft class. Maroney, Jones-Drew, Williams and Addai pre 2008
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Old 10-07-2008, 12:05 AM    (permalink
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Reggie is a fantastic player, he may not have great yards per carry, but a lot of the times when I watch the Saints, players are in the backfield pretty damn fast.

People need to look what he does as a running back catching the ball, he gets to go up against linebackers alot of the time, which he can out run... When he has to go up against corners all the time and safeties and run timing routes and what not all the time, it changes. You have to account for Reggie as a receiving threat and a running threat when he's in as a running back, and he does a good job running, a great job receiving, and an amazing job at drawing the defenses attention and opening up the field for no names like Devery Henderson and Lance Moore.
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Old 10-07-2008, 12:05 AM    (permalink
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I love you.

all of it, I love you.

I just left my girl, I'm coming get you.

I knew Deuce was back when he leaped into the endzone last week, his explosion was there!

I think Reggie will be fine though, but maybe everyone has different expectations, but if we sure up the offensive line, and he gets up over 4 yards a carry, and gets to 1200-1300 rushing yards, with his big play ability, and his receiving, I'd say he's a huge success.

I agree with Critesy though, he really doesn't get the credit he deserves just for getting back to the line when he's hit in the backfield.

I want Duke Robinson badly, and I want Stinchcomb and Goodwin out baddererer.

I'll take Duke and Alex Mack as our first picks in the draft, and be ecstatic :D

Edit: Also, Reggie would beast in Felix Jones role. Did you see his run yesterday? have you ever seen a run where Reggie takes a toss and gets to run untouched into the endzone?
lol...Don't think my girl would be too happy about that, but we'll see....lol

I see where you guys are coming from, I'm definitly going to take that approach from now on when watching him. I've always used the conventional approach of "this is how a running back should play". BUt as a playmaker he definitly looks and plays the role. And you are right, Bush would be much more productive player on a team like the Cowboys who have an excellent line that run blocks with tenacity and toughness and make sure that their backs get lanes to get up through.

I will definitly pay more attention and use that approach rather then the conventional one that I was using. Thanks.

Oh, and Duke Robinson would clean up your inside woes in a hurry, I still can't believe that the Saints let Jeff Faine walk. I thought he was perfect for your team down there. He was smart, technical and was turning his creer around and finally living up to his lofty expecations when he entered the league as a 1rst rounder with the Browns. Kinda pisses me off that a team would let not just LeCharles Bentley leave, but Jeff Faine too, when to me, the center position is so damn hard to find, especially a talented one as those 2. BUt hey, maybe you do get Alex Mack, he looks monsterous aswell.
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Old 10-07-2008, 12:05 AM    (permalink
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yeah thats one of the negatives i see in him, is just the ball treatment he has, his first year was good with the ball but last year was pretty bad and now this game wasnt too great but ya... hah.
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Old 10-07-2008, 12:08 AM    (permalink
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He is not even the best HB in his own draft class. Maroney, Jones-Drew, Williams and Addai pre 2008

actually its been said that maroney hates to run through the tackles he prefers to run it outside from what i hear pats arent truelly sold on maroney due to that.
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Old 10-07-2008, 12:09 AM    (permalink
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lol...Don't think my girl would be too happy about that, but we'll see....lol

I see where you guys are coming from, I'm definitly going to take that approach from now on when watching him. I've always used the conventional approach of "this is how a running back should play". BUt as a playmaker he definitly looks and plays the role. And you are right, Bush would be much more productive player on a team like the Cowboys who have an excellent line that run blocks with tenacity and toughness and make sure that their backs get lanes to get up through.

I will definitly pay more attention and use that approach rather then the conventional one that I was using. Thanks.

Oh, and Duke Robinson would clean up your inside woes in a hurry, I still can't believe that the Saints let Jeff Faine walk. I thought he was perfect for your team down there. He was smart, technical and was turning his creer around and finally living up to his lofty expecations when he entered the league as a 1rst rounder with the Browns. Kinda pisses me off that a team would let not just LeCharles Bentley leave, but Jeff Faine too, when to me, the center position is so damn hard to find, especially a talented one as those 2. BUt hey, maybe you do get Alex Mack, he looks monsterous aswell.

I miss LeCharles bad, he was a monster, I bet Deuce misses him too. Jeff Faine really regressed last year and got pushed around like crazy, and was really hurting us in the passing game, and the running, that's why Brees was forced to get the ball out so fast.

Look, Im always the first to criticize a player on my team, I just don't see the backs as the problem right now, because whenever he is given a bit of time to run, he looks great.

He's never going to be a guy that gets a consistent 4 yards behind a poor line, but he can be a guy that gets you much more when you open some holes.
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Old 10-07-2008, 12:28 AM    (permalink
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Oh vey. Here we go again. In his third season, Bush is showing to be what we drafted him to be. A weapon. Not just a RB. Weapon. Can be used all over the field to create mismatches and making big plays. He does just that especially early thus far in the season.

He won the TB game for us. Put us in position to win the Redskins game. Put us in position to win tonight. I don't know what you want from one player.
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Old 10-07-2008, 12:51 AM    (permalink
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He is not even the best HB in his own draft class. Maroney, Jones-Drew, Williams and Addai pre 2008
I'll grant you MJD and Addai, but there is no way Maroney or Williams are better than Bush.
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Old 10-07-2008, 12:54 AM    (permalink
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Also, if I remember correctly, football outsiders has our RB's getting stuffed behind the line for a higher percentage of runs than any other team.. Yup, 32nd in the league in that regard.

Yea, was just looking at it, we are 4th in the league when we run behind the LT, at 5.64 adjusted line yards, 22nd off the left end, 18th when running up the gut(shocked? I know!), 26th of the right tackle, and 24th to the right end.

Also, we run behind the left tackle only 12% of the time.

Moral of the story? Now especially with Carl Nicks being inserted, run the ball behind the franchise LT dammit!!

The second moral? **** you Stinchcomb, 3.3 adjusted line yards per carry to your side? You suck!

Carl Nicks should emerge, and if he does, our left side could be dominant, but we are still weak at C and RT, really weak at RT....

It's funny, only Cincinnati's line is comparable statistically to how many times the RB's get stuffed in the backfield, and even they are a bit better. *shudder*

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Old 10-07-2008, 12:57 AM    (permalink
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Why does Reggie get flamed, but every other back gets the pass for poor blocking?

I think this game showed more than anything that no one can run with poor blocking, not Reggie, not Deuce, not even Adrian Peterson.

Because every other back wasn't touted as the best running back prospect *ever* or one of the best draft prospects *ever*.
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Old 10-07-2008, 01:00 AM    (permalink
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Because every other back wasn't touted as the best running back prospect *ever* or one of the best draft prospects *ever*.
And, could you explain to me how the hell that was Reggie Bush's fault?
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Old 10-07-2008, 01:08 AM    (permalink
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And, could you explain to me how the hell that was Reggie Bush's fault?
seriously. i hate when people blame another player because of media hype, freakin ridiculous.
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Old 10-07-2008, 01:42 AM    (permalink
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he is a great weapon. i love him as a 2nd rb/receiver/mismatch machine. he is getting some poor blocking but he still seems to want to bounce it and avoid contact.

on one play it was 3 or four yards for the first and he takes it left. if he would have lowered a shoulder he would have banged out a first, but instead he strings it out to the sideline and ends up a yard short.

i think they are using him very well in NO. he needs to improve still as a runner but his catching is a great asset. he is a gamechanger but he needs a little more consistency.

i think that he'll get there though. he still has a good chance to pan out as a great player.
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Old 10-07-2008, 05:57 AM    (permalink
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Reggie Bush is awesome. He has more points in my PPR Fantasy League than AD. He has to be better
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Old 10-07-2008, 06:29 AM    (permalink
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his career ypc is under 4 thats why. The Saints block well inside but Bush has this never ending need to take everything outside.
ummm no .... our run blocking is horrid the last three years.
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Old 10-07-2008, 09:05 AM    (permalink
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He was supposed to come out and have the success Peterson is having. Bush was supposed to be the total package, special teams, ability to catch the ball and make things happen, AND be that stud running back as well. That's why there was debate on who should go # 1 overall. The complete package in Williams or complete package in Bush. That's why when the Texans picked Williams people laughed at their franchise AND their GM because they thought Bush would impact the NFL like Peterson has with his ability to get alot of yards, and be used as a weapon, in the special teams game and passing game.
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Old 10-07-2008, 09:16 AM    (permalink
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Ive been one of his biggest critics. But I must soften my stance.

While I don't think he'll ever be the guy everyone thought he'd be, he still can be a very very good player with some adjustments.

First and foremost, hold onto the damn ball.

2ndly, Payton needs to use him more as a WR and send him deep more often.

3rdly, maybe ZBS would work for him. And more stretch runs.

Screen passes would help him too.

He'll never be a pure dominant RB, but he can be better utilized. But if he ever wants to reach a level where Payton can do more things with him, he needs to learn to do a better job running btw the tackles. That would open up so many more possibilities for him bc the defense can't hone in on what he's doing, and start second guessing themselves more often.

Some of that is run blocking, but some of it is also on Reggie. He's too quick to bounce it outside. Iform ZBS might do him some good, but thats not Payton's thing.
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Old 10-07-2008, 09:17 AM    (permalink
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If Reggie ran behind Dallas or Philly's line, his YPC would be ungodly.
If he played behind any competent OL, his YPC would be amazing. It truly is pathetic. Adrian Peterson wouldn't be able to do anything if he's getting popped five yards in the backfield because his OL can't block anyone.
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Old 10-07-2008, 09:18 AM    (permalink
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Personally I would never draft a HB in the first round espically one at #2 no matter who the player is. Like others have said he is great at what he does and has the benefit of some other nice offense players. I don't think he has lived up the hype since people was calling him a "once in a generation" player. Felix Jones and Chris Johnson both went later round 1 and are a similar type player.
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Old 10-07-2008, 09:21 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Basileus777 View Post
I'll grant you MJD and Addai, but there is no way Maroney or Williams are better than Bush.
MJD and Addai have also had terrific offensive lines to work with so far. This year, with a suspect OL, Jones-Drew's ypc is 4.1, almost a full yard down from his career average (5.0). Addai's ypc has also dropped thanks to injuries on the Colts' OL, from a career average of 4.3 to 3.6. Coincidence?
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Old 10-07-2008, 09:24 AM    (permalink
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He'll never be a pure dominant RB, but he can be better utilized
BBD,

Everyone and their mother thought he would be a dominant RB AND do the other things. That was the hype and selling point of him as a prospect. Amazing, amazing RB, who can do what westbrook does, AND be a sick special teams player. The total deal, 100% package, he was supposed to be. His rushing avg is piss poor for someone who is the 2nd overall pick. 3 point something YPA is pretty damn bad. Yeah, he does other amazing things, and can get the ball out of the backfield. But I certainly don't think he is worth the money for the 2nd overall pick.

Reggie Bush right now is a very poor man's Brian Westbrook.
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Old 10-07-2008, 09:33 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shockey+Manning=Shocking View Post
BBD,

Everyone and their mother thought he would be a dominant RB AND do the other things. That was the hype and selling point of him as a prospect. Amazing, amazing RB, who can do what westbrook does, AND be a sick special teams player. The total deal, 100% package, he was supposed to be. His rushing avg is piss poor for someone who is the 2nd overall pick. 3 point something YPA is pretty damn bad. Yeah, he does other amazing things, and can get the ball out of the backfield. But I certainly don't think he is worth the money for the 2nd overall pick.

Reggie Bush right now is a very poor man's Brian Westbrook.
Bush doesn't have an OL. The Saints, as a team, are averaging 3.2 ypc. Reggie's 3.3 is actually a bit higher. In '07, Reggie averaged 3.7, which is the exact same average as the team. In '06, Reggie averaged 3.6, while the team averaged 3.7.
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Old 10-07-2008, 09:37 AM    (permalink
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Bush doesn't have an OL. The Saints, as a team, are averaging 3.2 ypc. Reggie's 3.3 is actually a bit higher. In '07, Reggie averaged 3.7, which is the exact same average as the team. In '06, Reggie averaged 3.6, while the team averaged 3.7.
Perhaps they should addressed this before they got a franchise QB and a stud RB. What are they waiting for? We didn't have an oline either and Fassel and Accorsi played musical linemen with our offensive line. But all it takes is the mind set that you want to be stronger in the trenches and then work to upgrade it and it works. We worked hard to upgrade both sides and it worked pretty damn quick.

Outside the stats what running plays are they running? Is it the strength of the RBs? My main question would be what running concepts are being used in the Saints offense? Our running concepts are perfect for the things we are trying to do, and most importantly fit our backs!

Is this the case for the Saints and their RBs?
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Old 10-07-2008, 09:38 AM    (permalink
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BBD,

Everyone and their mother thought he would be a dominant RB AND do the other things. That was the hype and selling point of him as a prospect. Amazing, amazing RB, who can do what westbrook does, AND be a sick special teams player. The total deal, 100% package, he was supposed to be. His rushing avg is piss poor for someone who is the 2nd overall pick. 3 point something YPA is pretty damn bad. Yeah, he does other amazing things, and can get the ball out of the backfield. But I certainly don't think he is worth the money for the 2nd overall pick.

Reggie Bush right now is a very poor man's Brian Westbrook.
oh i know, i agree with you.

im just trying to think of ways to salvage his promising athleticism. the man is explosive, theres no denying that.

but he hasn't put it together on the field yet.
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