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Old 10-08-2008, 06:20 PM    (permalink
M.O.T.H.
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Did you enjoy watching the game? I know I did.

I find it funny that the biggest Eli haters out there are always Cowboys fans. Even though Eli Manning has made a career out of handing that Cowboy's defense its ass twice a year.


Cowboy fans, more than any other team in the league, should know how good Eli is. But I forgot, he can't possibly be better than Tony Romo, a qb who has pulled off 2 of the biggest chokejobs in recent playoff memory the past 2 years.
Our secondary tends to get beat up by most Qbs...so, I hold no grudges at all....and I'm not hating. I'm just pointing out that he hasnt played anyone this year...obviously, that isnt his fault. But, you dont just hand a guy a $100 million contract before he even faces anyone of note. You cant forget what he has been over his career and that is not a QB worthy of such a contract. People forget way too freaking easily, how bad he was...because, of a good playoff run? That almost wouldnt have been, if it wasnt for Jacque Reeves anyway. He didnt even have a good year last year. I'm just saying to wait on it.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:22 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Did you enjoy watching the game? I know I did.

I find it funny that the biggest Eli haters out there are always Cowboys fans. Even though Eli Manning has made a career out of handing that Cowboy's defense its ass twice a year.


Cowboy fans, more than any other team in the league, should know how good Eli is. But I forgot, he can't possibly be better than Tony Romo, a qb who has pulled off 2 of the biggest chokejobs in recent playoff memory the past 2 years.
Oh i enjoyed it, very much so, actually. I'm glad he helped beat the Patriots.

If handing Dallas their ass means being .500 against them, that's not too bad. This has absolutely nothing to do with Tony Romo, or the Cowboys, and the fact that you Giants homers bring that up when talking about your player just goes to show how ignorant your arguments are. I'm not talking about Romo, the Seahawks game or the Giants games. You're the one that brings them up every time. Am i not allowed an opinion on your QB and the amount of money you're willing to give him, simply because i'm a Cowboys fan? Great logic.

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Originally Posted by Number 10 View Post
Are you honestly going to even attempt to give off the notion you are not a hater that lacks rationale after saying that?

Do some research and check out some of the contracts that have been given out the past 2-3 offseasons to linebackers, guards, cornerbacks....

And then come back and tell me a legit franchise QB that plays his best in the biggest games and has knack for stepping up in the clutch who also has a Super Bowl ring on his finger along with 3 playoff apperances in his 3 seasons as a starter does not deserve this contract.
I don't care what Dwight Freeney, Leonard Davis or Brian Urlacher got paid in the past two off-seasons, because they don't play quarterback. I could give a rats #!* what they got paid when compared to Eli Manning. I'm comparing his contract with his level of play and the contracts of other players at HIS position.

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Are you blaming him for not playing back to back to back games against Carolina, Tennessee, Dallas, and Pittsburgh? It's not his damned fault he's had an easy schedule, and he's performed every bit as well as you can ask for. He's been great for the Giants. I don't think he's going to flame out, because if you look at last year, he came on strong at the end. Most flukes don't do that. Let's look at other flukes:

Derek Anderson, started hot, flamed out.
Garrard, looked like one of the most efficient QBs to come around in a long time, flamed out and is now a solid game manager.

Both of these guys got worse later in the year. Eli turned it on later in the year. Again, you can't blame him for what he is unable to do. Just get over your Giants hate.
No, i'm not blaming him for anything. I'm simply pointing out that against cupcake teams, he put up good numbers, and struggled against the one good team they've played. How exactly has he been great? If it weren't for Washington DB's having the dropsies against them, he would have about three more INT's in his stats. Derek Anderson and David Garrard have NOTHING to do with Eli Manning, so why in the world are you bringing them up?
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:24 PM    (permalink
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We just saw Calvin Pace get what? 60 mill?

If Calvin Pace is worth that much, how much is Eli worth in the current market? 100 mill sounds about right.

its common sense. it shouldn't be that difficult to comprehend.
You're using a miserable franchise as your barometer for logic. Great job.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:24 PM    (permalink
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Our secondary tends to get beat up by most Qbs...so, I hold no grudges at all....and I'm not hating. I'm just pointing out that he hasnt played anyone this year...obviously, that isnt his fault. But, you dont just hand a guy a $100 million contract before he even faces anyone of note. You cant forget what he has been over his career and that is not a QB worthy of such a contract. People forget way too freaking easily, how bad he was...because, of a good playoff run? That almost wouldnt have been, if it wasnt for Jacque Reeves anyway. He didnt even have a good year last year. I'm just saying to wait on it.
i understood your comment. and im sure the Giants will do exactly what you said, wait.

they won't make this signing probably until later in the season.

having that said, i see no indications so far that he will go back to the inconsistent Eli. Ive said all along, it wasn't Eli who "turned the corner", it was the coaching staff.

That was the main reason why he played and continues to play the way he does. You just have to watch him play to get what Im saying. Its like when people thought Romo would have a "down year". If you saw Romo play, you knew that wouldn't happen. Same with Eli. I'll be shocked if he starts playing poorly again.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:27 PM    (permalink
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Love it. Give a non top 10 QB/possibly fringe top 10 QB 100 million. Can't wait till the Giants fans are screaming to get rid of him. Again.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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Oh i enjoyed it, very much so, actually. I'm glad he helped beat the Patriots.

If handing Dallas their ass means being .500 against them, that's not too bad. This has absolutely nothing to do with Tony Romo, or the Cowboys, and the fact that you Giants homers bring that up when talking about your player just goes to show how ignorant your arguments are. I'm not talking about Romo, the Seahawks game or the Giants games. You're the one that brings them up every time. Am i not allowed an opinion on your QB and the amount of money you're willing to give him, simply because i'm a Cowboys fan? Great logic.



I don't care what Dwight Freeney, Leonard Davis or Brian Urlacher got paid in the past two off-seasons, because they don't play quarterback. I could give a rats #!* what they got paid when compared to Eli Manning. I'm comparing his contract with his level of play and the contracts of other players at HIS position.



No, i'm not blaming him for anything. I'm simply pointing out that against cupcake teams, he put up good numbers, and struggled against the one good team they've played. How exactly has he been great? If it weren't for Washington DB's having the dropsies against them, he would have about three more INT's in his stats. Derek Anderson and David Garrard have NOTHING to do with Eli Manning, so why in the world are you bringing them up?
No. Its obvious youre just being a blind hater on Eli Manning. Saying something as dumb as Eli Manning just threw a miracle to Tyree and lobs to Burress made any argument you want to formulate a joke. Bc thats obviously the words of someone being bitter.

Its one thing to bring up a logical critique of the guy. Its another thing to say what you said.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:29 PM    (permalink
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You're using a miserable franchise as your barometer for logic. Great job.
Microeconomics 101.

Its offered at every college, and its a 100 level course. Check it out, its pretty cool.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:31 PM    (permalink
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MetSox-

You don't get it. Contracts that were given out a couple years ago can't be compared to a contract given out today. ECONOMICS!!!!! Can you imagine what QB salaries are going to be if and when the NFL goes into an uncapped year? Eli's would be one of the cheapest among the top 10 QBs in the league.

I'm not saying you need to agree with the contract, that doesn't matter. But to imply he has done nothing to deserve it after what he has done over the course of his first 3+ seasons is atrocious. You say you don't care about other players deals...but you are neglecting the fact that it is a huge portion of any contract negotiation whether you like it or not. That's economics for you.
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Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:33 PM    (permalink
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i understood your comment. and im sure the Giants will do exactly what you said, wait.

they won't make this signing probably until later in the season.

having that said, i see no indications so far that he will go back to the inconsistent Eli. Ive said all along, it wasn't Eli who "turned the corner", it was the coaching staff.

That was the main reason why he played and continues to play the way he does. You just have to watch him play to get what Im saying. Its like when people thought Romo would have a "down year". If you saw Romo play, you knew that wouldn't happen. Same with Eli. I'll be shocked if he starts playing poorly again.
I do watch Eli regularly, I have NFL sunday ticket and when I didnt... come on, I live NJ. I do admit, he's improved but, there is always a chance he'll revert. The Bengals, Seahawks, and the Rams are god awful in all aspects. Granted the Bengals are playing tough...I dont just say that because, of the Cowboy game either. They did step up against you guys as well. We should learn a few things about Eli when he runs into a tougher stretch. Steelers, Cowboys, Eagles and Ravens in consecutive weeks should be a pretty good test.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:34 PM    (permalink
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I'm not saying you need to agree with the contract, that doesn't matter. But to imply he has done nothing to deserve it after what he has done over the course of his first 3+ seasons is atrocious.

Except for the fact that over his career, his play doesn't warant this kind of contract.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:34 PM    (permalink
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I do watch Eli regularly, I have NFL sunday ticket and when I didnt... come on, I live NJ. I do admit, he's improved but, there is always a chance he'll revert. The Bengals, Seahawks, and the Rams are god awful in all aspects. Granted the Bengals are playing tough...I dont just say that because, of the Cowboy game either. They did step up against you guys as well. We should learn a few things about Eli when he runs into a tougher stretch. Steelers, Cowboys, Eagles and Ravens in consecutive weeks should be a pretty good test.
i can live with that.

Answer me this though, do you feel Eli Manning is clutch, even with his inconsistencies?

you've watched him enough to give me an honest answer to that.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:36 PM    (permalink
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I do watch Eli regularly, I have NFL sunday ticket and when I didnt... come on, I live NJ. I do admit, he's improved but, there is always a chance he'll revert. The Bengals, Seahawks, and the Rams are god awful in all aspects. Granted the Bengals are playing tough...I dont just say that because, of the Cowboy game either. They did step up against you guys as well. We should learn a few things about Eli when he runs into a tougher stretch. Steelers, Cowboys, Eagles and Ravens in consecutive weeks should be a pretty good test.
There is a chance your investment will bust in any sector, football or not. No investment will ever be a sure thing. Of course there is a chance that Eli will not be worth half this contract. But if you say that, then you HAVE to say there is a chance he will outplay this contract by bringing a couple more Lombardi Trophies to New York. You can't put a price on a winner.
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Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:36 PM    (permalink
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MetSox-

You don't get it. Contracts that were given out a couple years ago can't be compared to a contract given out today. ECONOMICS!!!!! Can you imagine what QB salaries are going to be if and when the NFL goes into an uncapped year? Eli's would be one of the cheapest among the top 10 QBs in the league.

I'm not saying you need to agree with the contract, that doesn't matter. But to imply he has done nothing to deserve it after what he has done over the course of his first 3+ seasons is atrocious. You say you don't care about other players deals...but you are neglecting the fact that it is a huge portion of any contract negotiation whether you like it or not. That's economics for you.
Not to mention over the last 4 years since Peyton's signed his contract we have seen a new CBA agreed upon and the salary cap go up in huge increments. The cap is 116 million this year, in 2005 it was 85 million.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:36 PM    (permalink
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i can live with that.

Answer me this though, do you feel Eli Manning is clutch, even with his inconsistencies?

you've watched him enough to give me an honest answer to that.
I certainly think he's clutch...he's a different player near the end of most games. I dont know why exactly but, that is something he just has. Same cant be said for even some of the best Qbs but, his play leading up to that...could be horrible at times. Just gotta wait and see still.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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I certainly think he's clutch...he's a different player near the end of most games. I dont know why exactly but, that is something he just has. Same cant be said for even some of the best Qbs but, his play leading up to that...could be horrible at times. Just gotta wait and see still.
i respect that.

you give an honest evaluation. i can see why ppl outside our fanbase are skeptical, and you give valid reasons for it.

im just confident that he'll be legit, thats all.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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Except for the fact that over his career, his play doesn't warant this kind of contract.
Says who? What's the bar set at right now for a QB that gets this kind of extension?

It depends on what you want out of a QB. A guy that has brought his team to the playoffs every year he has been a starter? A guy that wins Super Bowls? A guy that can win on the road? An excellent clutch QB?

Or do you want a guy that goes in the first round of fantasy drafts across the country?
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:41 PM    (permalink
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oh and btw ppl, Matt Ryan just signed a 72 million dollar deal.

Matt Ryan, a rookie.

Does it make sense now that Eli gets 100 mill with the current market?




I don't see whats so difficult to comprehend about that.

And make no mistake, me personally, id LOVE it if Eli made less. Are you kidding me? I wish he'd play for free. But I understand the economics of it, which drives the whole thing to begin with. It shouldn't be that hard to understand.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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A guy that has brought his team to the playoffs every year he has been a starter? A guy that wins Super Bowls? A guy that can win on the road?


I know you are a big Giants fan. But I'm pretty sure you are mixing up said guy and an entire defense and offensive line.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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Except for the fact that over his career, his play doesn't warant this kind of contract.
Yes, but he's a young QB. He isn't a journeyman veteran that's been around and only been average his whole career until now. Young QBs tend to get better.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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I know you are a big Giants fan. But I'm pretty sure you are mixing up said guy and an entire defense and offensive line.
So which one of those traits am I wrong about when it comes to Eli?
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:44 PM    (permalink
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Says who? What's the bar set at right now for a QB that gets this kind of extension?

It depends on what you want out of a QB. A guy that has brought his team to the playoffs every year he has been a starter? A guy that wins Super Bowls? A guy that can win on the road? An excellent clutch QB?

Or do you want a guy that goes in the first round of fantasy drafts across the country?
So you are saying you would rather have Eli than Peyton or Brady? Those are the only QB's going in the 1st round of fantasy drafts and maybe occasionally Romo.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:45 PM    (permalink
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So which one of those traits am I wrong about when it comes to Eli?

He's clutch. Cool. You made all of your statements like he carried the Giants on his back. It's a lot more like the defense and offensive line carried the team.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:46 PM    (permalink
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I know you are a big Giants fan. But I'm pretty sure you are mixing up said guy and an entire defense and offensive line.
And if you think Eli is simply a product of a good enviornment around him...

The Giants have more drops than ANY team in the league since the beginning of 2006. His starting left tackle gave up an NFC high 14 sacks in 2007.

Now I would be wrong if I said the supporting cast is weak. The Giants defense is evolving into top 10 caliber and the depth at RB and WR may be tops in the league. But you know what? I got grilled for talking about that on Sunday, so you guys can't have it both ways? Was every one of you wrong on Sunday, or are you wrong about Eli?
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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So you are saying you would rather have Eli than Peyton or Brady? Those are the only QB's going in the 1st round of fantasy drafts and maybe occasionally Romo.
You're missing the point now.

Peyton? Not right now, maybe in a few years when he is nearing the end. Brady? Hell no.

I'm implying that pointing to statistics when evaluating a QB is foolish. Do you disagree?
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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Not a huge surprise. All of the Eli jock riders/Giants fans flock to this thread to defend the potential move, everyone else sees it for what it's worth.
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