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Old 01-18-2009, 06:10 PM    (permalink
summond822
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I don't like double posting...but since we're on how we are ordering people, who are your top 5 for the draft in general?

Mine would be:
1. Aaron Curry
2. Malcolm Jenkins
3. Eugene Monroe
4. Brian Orakpo
5. Matt Stafford

and my top 5 for the Seahawks would be:
1. Malcolm Jenkins
2. Jason Smith
3. Michael Crabtree
4. Matt Stafford
5. Eugene Monroe
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Old 01-18-2009, 06:53 PM    (permalink
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my top 5 is:
Jenkins
Curry
Orakpo
Monroe
Maclin/Crabtree

my big board:
Jenkins
Curry
TRADE Down
Crabtree
Monroe
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Old 01-18-2009, 07:21 PM    (permalink
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I do have to agree with number 3 on that list being in the proper place. I do think that Jason Smith would be a better fit for us than Monroe though. He isn't quite as polished as Monroe is now, but he is athletic and a true LT. He should be a good fit in a ZBS that they are implementing as well.

Plus more early draft pick ---> more likely to find a stud skill player
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Old 01-18-2009, 10:55 PM    (permalink
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I have no clue who the Seahawks will take at the #4 spot. I have been high on Eugene Monroe for a while now but now I like Jason Smith more than him but dont feel that he will be worth a top 5 pick. My dream scenario would be to trade back and take him. So if we cant trade back what do we do.

So if we are stuck at 4 are any of the OTs worth taking at that spot.

I dont see and dont want us to take Crabtree.

Im not sure we actually need to take Jenkins. We have obviously have Trufant. And last year (the 07 season) we allowed the fewest amount of passing TD. Jennings did look like he took a major step back this past season but I think with the new staff that they can fix his mistakes. Its mostly that he is not looking back for the ball. Plus Wilson IMO had a very good year for his 2nd year and only getting better.

I believe that we will get Hill back so I dont see Curry being taken.

Something that makes sense to me is a DE even tho we just took one last year. Kerney is getting old and will be coming back of an injury. Jackson is a good run stopping DE and not a very good pass rusher. Tapp is nothing more than a rotational player. So if we did draft a pass rusher like Orakpo we would be able to use him at what he does best and take him out on obvious running downs for Jackson. And would be able to use him like Atlanta does Abraham only playing maybe 50% off the plays and leading the leauge in sacks for DE. Plus its a great Def that wins playoff games. But is it smart to spend the #4 on a DE. I just dont know.

Who else is there. I just dont no anymore. You would figure picking #4 would be easy to decide but its a lot harder than I thought. Picking the 2nd round pick is so much easier. Maybe we do take Crabtree and its as easy as that.
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Old 01-19-2009, 12:06 AM    (permalink
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When Taylor Mays decided to go back to college the draft got a lot less interesting for Seattle fans. Everything you said is true, and I have ran through that over and over again.

Ultimately, if we stay at 4, we have to take Jenkins. He is the only player who even remotely fills a need and is worthy of that pick. I love Wilson, and I was impressed watching him improve all season long as he got more game time, but he can't go up against the Cardinal WR's. Ultimately, with Jenkins and Trufant we potentially have one of the best starting corner tandems in the league, much like Green Bay.

In order to justify any other player, outside of Curry, they have to trade back. When they go to look at bringing back Leroy Hill they have to decide if they want to keep a proven Pro Bowl caliber player, or do they want to go with an unproven rookie who is going to command big money. One thing we have to look at here is if Hill truly wants to come back. He is overshadowed by Tatupu and Peterson, and Hill is probably the most complete linebacker we have. They should have given Hill the extension, not Tatupu, IMO.

I just have trouble seeing them take Orakpo. Not with just taking another DE last year. Although I agree with what you said about Jackson, Ruskell won't give up on him this early. Jackson just didn't do much in any game. Orakpo would be much more valuable to the Seahawks than Jackson will ever be, since Orakpo at least can get to the QB. Jackson didn't do it well in college and I don't think he'll do it in the NFL.

Crabtree and Smith are both good fits for the Seahawks, but not at 4. They have to trade back to at least 10 before I would say that either one is worth the risk. Smith I could actually see them taking at 4, just because I think he fits everything they want to do so well and is a true LT, but it would shock many people and they could probably get him for less.

Crabtree is just like Rashard Mendenhall to me right now. An overrated player that is just being given to the Seahawks because people think that is where our biggest problem is. I would take Crabtree at 10 or later, but not at 4. He's not a Larry Fitzgerald or Calvin Johnson. Actually, if I had my way, Crabtree wouldn't even be a first round pick. He's not going to do much as a rookie, he doesn't run very sharp routes.

If they want to bring in a rookie WR that will make an impact right away, Jarret Dillard from Rice comes to mind. Route running is the most important thing in the NFL and he runs sharper routes than anyone else coming out this year + he has a 42" vertical, so it makes up for him being only 5'10". Or they could trade back into the first and grab Percy Harvin, who I think has much more upside than Crabtree but has major durability concerns.
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Old 01-19-2009, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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I think we should pick Jenkins. I didnt see much preseason, but if Jordan Kent is as good as you say he is, why would we draft another speed WR?
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Old 01-19-2009, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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I think we should pick Jenkins. I didnt see much preseason, but if Jordan Kent is as good as you say he is, why would we draft another speed WR?
That's just my opinion about Kent. Kent has all of the measurables that one looks for in a WR. He has top line speed, size, and jumping ability. He's one of the fastest Seahawks on the team. The only reason he hasn't been given a chance is probably his route running. However, much like Fitzgerald, when the ball is in the air, he goes up and gets it.

This year or next we could be watching one of the top young WR's in the game if Kent develops and starts playing like he is capable of. Of course, the Seahawks may not feel like he is capable of being a starter in the NFL, for some reason.

Just for fun, I'll do a little Kent/Crabtree comparison.
(Crabtree/Kent)
Age: 21/25
Height: 6'3"/6'4"
Weight: 214/219
Draft Selection: Top 15/6th round pick 210
40: 4.55/ Can't find Kent's right now, my search browsers have been acting up, but he was an All-American sprinter @ Oregon.

Kent is taller and faster than Crabtree. He may not have the YAC ability, but he is a much better athlete all around. If he had played football all of his life instead of just a couple of years at Oregon, he would have likely been a 1st round pick. He was a three sport letterman at Oregon, which just attests to how freakish of an athlete he is.
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Old 01-19-2009, 02:44 PM    (permalink
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I dont think we go Crabtree anymore. Jordan Kent may be the best kept secret in the NFL. I had no idea he was THAT athletic. wow.
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Old 01-19-2009, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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oh and I did a search: 10.4 100 20.8 200. And he jumped 25 feet in the LJ. wow.
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Old 01-19-2009, 03:35 PM    (permalink
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Im glad to hear that other Seahawks fans also dont want us taking Crabtree. I dont want him at 4 or at 10 if we traded down. I am tired of everyone giving us Crabtree in there Mocks. By hearing what you guys have to say if we stay at 4 Jenkins has to be the pick and if we trade down than Smith should be the pick. I think that should pretty much sum up our 1st round. So if we cant trade down and take Jenkins, what do we do in the 2nd round. I still want a RB but that would mean missing out on a good OT. Would you guys be satisfied with JJ TJ and JF as our 3 RBs next year? Our should we get one in the 2nd? If we dont take one in the 1st or 2nd we better not take one at all.

And about Jordan Kent. I was high on him at the beginning of the year but he needs I would say prob 2 years to develop if he is to breakout like you think he might. He definitely needs to improve route running. Im not sure what it is but really needs to improve and the deep route. Im not sure if the QB isnt throwing the ball accurate that far or if he just cant find his way under it. I dont think that he caught one deep bomb all year when he played and he def had his chances.

And where would Jarrett Dillard play, the slot? I have been hearing his name a lot lately about being a good WR to take.
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Old 01-19-2009, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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He has basketball hops too. He played basketball for the Ducks as well before he decided to focus on football. Course, his Dad is the Oregon basketball coach so... Anyways, he only played football his junior and senior years of college.

When I was watching the preseason games with my dad I was telling him that Kent is the fastest player on the Seahawks. He has the total package, all he ever needed was experience, and now that he has two years of that, we could be watching the emergence of a great WR this year.

I was honestly surprised that some other team didn't sign him when the Seahawks assigned him to the practice squad. I think at the end, they realized that their projects, Forsett and Kent, were too valuable to even be at risk to be signed by other teams.
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Old 01-19-2009, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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In the past 3 years does taking a CB in round 1 and 2 make the case for not taking Jenkins? Or is he the only guy worth taking at that spot? I would rather take Stafford than Jenkins if he was still there. But I really dont see that happening.
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Old 01-19-2009, 03:50 PM    (permalink
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Im glad to hear that other Seahawks fans also dont want us taking Crabtree. I dont want him at 4 or at 10 if we traded down. I am tired of everyone giving us Crabtree in there Mocks. By hearing what you guys have to say if we stay at 4 Jenkins has to be the pick and if we trade down than Smith should be the pick. I think that should pretty much sum up our 1st round. So if we cant trade down and take Jenkins, what do we do in the 2nd round. I still want a RB but that would mean missing out on a good OT. Would you guys be satisfied with JJ TJ and JF as our 3 RBs next year? Our should we get one in the 2nd? If we dont take one in the 1st or 2nd we better not take one at all.

And about Jordan Kent. I was high on him at the beginning of the year but he needs I would say prob 2 years to develop if he is to breakout like you think he might. He definitely needs to improve route running. Im not sure what it is but really needs to improve and the deep route. Im not sure if the QB isnt throwing the ball accurate that far or if he just cant find his way under it. I dont think that he caught one deep bomb all year when he played and he def had his chances.

And where would Jarrett Dillard play, the slot? I have been hearing his name a lot lately about being a good WR to take.
Yeah, I have gotten to the point where I don't even comment on the Crabtree picks in mocks. Last year, I started a thread where I ranted about not wanting Rashard Mendenhall...I think I am nearing the point where I might do that with Crabtree...but it doesn't really do anything except get my feelings off my chest.

Honestly...unless Duke Robinson or Max Unger are there, I don't see the Seahawks going lineman in the second. There really are no LT prospect at that spot.

As for JJ, JF, & TJ as our running backs, I would be fine with that as long as Forsett actually got a chance to play. I didn't want Duckett on the roster at the beginning of the season, but his ability to regularly convert 3rd & 1 convinced me of his worth as the season went on. Jones can be the feature back, Forsett would be a great change of pace back. He can use his height to hide behind the lineman and is already through the line before the defense can find him. If Shady, Moreno, or Wells were there, the Seahawks might be tempted to go RB, but I seriously doubt it. You can find value at RB later on in the draft. Look at Steve Slaton last year, he was a 5th round pick. If the Seahawks managed to get someone who had a skill set similar to Slaton's that later in the draft, I think that they would take it.

Jenkins or Jason Smith are by far the best picks for the Seahawks. No one else truly addresses a need or would contribute within a short time.

Dillard, I am really starting to get high on. He really impressed me watching the shrine game. He has the route running skills to immediately come in and make an impact. He would probably thrive in the slot. If they are able to bring Engram back, it might make it kind of pointless to bring in Dillard, but he could be that kind of reliable receiver I believe. Another slot WR that the Seahawks already have would be Michael Bumpus. He has good hands and has a knack for finding the soft spot in the zone. He could probably be a replacement for Bobby Engram if they truly needed one right away.
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Old 01-19-2009, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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In the past 3 years does taking a CB in round 1 and 2 make the case for not taking Jenkins? Or is he the only guy worth taking at that spot? I would rather take Stafford than Jenkins if he was still there. But I really dont see that happening.
I thought about that for a long time. Jennings never stepped up. This is his third or fourth year and he has yet to win the starting spot. He isn't playing like a number one pick should. Josh Wilson outplayed him, and if he was three inches taller, I would say that we don't take Jenkins. However, Wilson just isn't tall enough to be a shut down corner, something that Jenkins has the potential to be.

As for Stafford there...no. That would be like a slap in the face to Hasselbeck just after Mora had publically stated that he would be the QB in Seattle for years to come. I think that Mora and Ruskell both respect Hasselbeck way too much to do something like that. Now, if Sanchez has fallen deep into round 1, they might make a play to move up and grab him. It's a little bit different scenario. A player drafted in the 20's isn't expected to replace the QB right away.
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Old 01-23-2009, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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I thought about that for a long time. Jennings never stepped up. This is his third or fourth year and he has yet to win the starting spot. He isn't playing like a number one pick should. Josh Wilson outplayed him, and if he was three inches taller, I would say that we don't take Jenkins. However, Wilson just isn't tall enough to be a shut down corner, something that Jenkins has the potential to be.

As for Stafford there...no. That would be like a slap in the face to Hasselbeck just after Mora had publically stated that he would be the QB in Seattle for years to come. I think that Mora and Ruskell both respect Hasselbeck way too much to do something like that. Now, if Sanchez has fallen deep into round 1, they might make a play to move up and grab him. It's a little bit different scenario. A player drafted in the 20's isn't expected to replace the QB right away.
Think about this...

Is Josh Wilson shutting down Larry Fitzgerald one-on-one? Probably not.

Is Malcolm Jenkins, because he's a few inches taller than Wilson? Probably not.

There are very few, if any, CBs who have the height to cover the 6'3" + monster WRs in this league.

And Jenkins is not the fastest CB so that right there I think will be a turn-off to Ruskell.

CWABTWEE ALL DA WAY SUMMONDDDDDDDD!

I think your problem is that you just don't like Crabtree that much. We need to figure out why in some sort of pseudo-Seahawk-therapy. Let's begin with you listing all bad experiences you've had with crabs in your life. Next, are you allergic to trees?
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Old 01-23-2009, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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Think about this...

Is Josh Wilson shutting down Larry Fitzgerald one-on-one? Probably not.

Is Malcolm Jenkins, because he's a few inches taller than Wilson? Probably not.

There are very few, if any, CBs who have the height to cover the 6'3" + monster WRs in this league.

And Jenkins is not the fastest CB so that right there I think will be a turn-off to Ruskell.

CWABTWEE ALL DA WAY SUMMONDDDDDDDD!

?
So maybe they should go get Alphonso Smith...he's just another undersized, quick corner. The only difference between him and Jennings is that he actually has ball skills.

Listen, honestly, no one is going to cover Fitzgerald one on one. It's an impossibility. Taylor Mays might have a chance, but that would be about it. No, the reason I want Jenkins is because I'm talking about everyone other than Fitzgerald. The best we can do is have Trufant follow him all over the field and give him some extra help. However, you start tying up your best corner on Fitz, Boldin and Breaston will kill you. Wilson can handle Breaston. Jennings can't handle Boldin. Jenkins should be shut-down corner in this league. Plus, rookie CB's have more impact than rookie WR's.

Now to the Crabtree part.

This is my honest opinion on Crabtree:

Positive: Big physical WR that is potentially a top 10 pick. Good hands. Shows flashes of being able to make the big play. Always seems to be open. Sometimes shows the ability to fight through tackelers. Wills himself to some catches.

Negative: Doesnít have top line speed and I donít think that he will be as good as advertised at the next level. Seems more in the mold of Mike Williams than Larry Fitzgerald. Uses his speed too much to get open. Not really a great route runner. Doesnít really set himself apart from other WRís. Can go down easily as well. Didnít run much more than slant or slip routes. Can he go up and get the jump ball?

I watched a lot of his highlights. He is open on almost every single ball that was thrown to him. He runs an amazing slant route, but other than that and screens, he really didn't do much else. He relies entirely too much on his speed. Unless he runs a 4.4 or better, I don't really see that being as much use at the pro level.

Also, to be an elite receiver, you have to be willing to go up and get the ball. The touchdowns that I saw him catch were generally just slants. He ran one fade route and he left his feet. It didn't show off his vertical at all.

The only game where I actually saw him get physical with the opposing corners was the Texas game. He was double covered and he had to be physical to catch the ball. I was impressed with that game, and if he showed that more often I might start warming up to him.

Crabtree truly has great hands though. He catches everything away from his body and quickly brings it in. And when he sets you up with his slant there's no defending it. I just don't think he's worth a Top 5 pick.

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I think your problem is that you just don't like Crabtree that much. We need to figure out why in some sort of pseudo-Seahawk-therapy. Let's begin with you listing all bad experiences you've had with crabs in your life. Next, are you allergic to trees?
lol. That was actually pretty funny. And how could I be allergic to trees? I live in Washington! And to answer both, no. Though there was that one time that I stepped on a crab at the beach (barefoot)...it was underwater...pretty scary time right there.
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Old 01-23-2009, 05:54 PM    (permalink
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i agree with summond. don't believe the crabtree hype.
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Old 01-23-2009, 06:03 PM    (permalink
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Though there was that one time that I stepped on a crab at the beach (barefoot)...it was underwater...pretty scary time right there.
That explains everything then!

I understand your concerns with Crabtree, but realize that he's not catching many balls in traffic or with defenders draped over him because he's constantly getting open. Now part of that is the Texas Tech scheme but part of it is also him. How much, we'll never know.

About his route running...
Our offense is supposed to be based on slants (we really didn't run too many the past few years because our WRs are all so small). Tree would instantly give us that quick option. We have never seen Hasselbeck with a big WR on the outside! It's an exciting prospect to me! Crabtree can learn how to run pro routes. Roddy White couldn't run a route for his life in his rookie year and now he's a technician. Running routes is something that can be improved and taught. Size and quickness cannot and Crab has both already.

You saw that Texas game so you saw how he completely ABUSED future pro CBs. How could you not want that on your team!? Maybe it's because I'm a WR but when the Raiders beat the Bucs in Week 17 and we clinched the #4 pick ahead of them, I was ecstatic to land this guy!

He has size, we agree. He may or may not have the great straight-line speed (his 40 will show us that). What he DOES indeed have that I believe you are undervaluing is excellent quickness and football speed. Accelerating past defenders with the ball and pads is just different than running in a straight line in tights- I've done both and it just is.

AHHHHH I'm getting excited just thinking about it. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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Old 01-23-2009, 06:22 PM    (permalink
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That explains everything then!

I understand your concerns with Crabtree, but realize that he's not catching many balls in traffic or with defenders draped over him because he's constantly getting open. Now part of that is the Texas Tech scheme but part of it is also him. How much, we'll never know.

About his route running...
Our offense is supposed to be based on slants (we really didn't run too many the past few years because our WRs are all so small). Tree would instantly give us that quick option. We have never seen Hasselbeck with a big WR on the outside! It's an exciting prospect to me! Crabtree can learn how to run pro routes. Roddy White couldn't run a route for his life in his rookie year and now he's a technician. Running routes is something that can be improved and taught. Size and quickness cannot and Crab has both already.

You saw that Texas game so you saw how he completely ABUSED future pro CBs. How could you not want that on your team!? Maybe it's because I'm a WR but when the Raiders beat the Bucs in Week 17 and we clinched the #4 pick ahead of them, I was ecstatic to land this guy!

He has size, we agree. He may or may not have the great straight-line speed (his 40 will show us that). What he DOES indeed have that I believe you are undervaluing is excellent quickness and football speed. Accelerating past defenders with the ball and pads is just different than running in a straight line in tights- I've done both and it just is.

AHHHHH I'm getting excited just thinking about it. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
The big problem is how much of it is the scheme? If I could be sure that Crabtree himself is the reason he is open all the time, then I would be okay with the pick. However, so much of the Texas Tech offense is run upfield two-three yards and break in, pick up yards after the catch.

It is ridiculously hard to evaluate a player who is featured exclusively like that.

Also, a lot of his deep touchdowns where he accelerated beyond corners were against teams that probably don't have a pro prospect on defense.

I just find it hard to believe that:
a) the Seahawks will stay @ #4.
b) if they did stay they'd take Michael Crabtree.

Ruskell's draft patterns do not support taking Michael Crabtree. And, this year with a pick so close the end of the second, he really doesn't have to move around in the second. So, it is likely that they try to trade back into round 1 to take a player like Sanchez who is falling.

Sorry, I don't like Crabtree at 4. If they traded down, maybe. I think that Malcolm Jenkins and Jason Smith are both better options for the Seahawks.

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We have never seen Hasselbeck with a big WR on the outside!
Actually we have...he was this guy called Joe Jurevicious. He played with Hasselbeck for one season and didn't get hurt when everybody else did. He was basically a TE in a WR's body. Great in the redzone. Which is why I kinda have a desire to take a guy like Ramses Bardin in the 3rd. He's big(6'5) and he is a pretty good athlete. He dominated 1-AA. He probably would have done pretty good at 1-A. Another redzone target outside of Carlson would be nice.

EDIT: BTW, what was up with your Shonn Greene pick?
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Old 01-23-2009, 07:36 PM    (permalink
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The big problem is how much of it is the scheme? If I could be sure that Crabtree himself is the reason he is open all the time, then I would be okay with the pick. However, so much of the Texas Tech offense is run upfield two-three yards and break in, pick up yards after the catch.

It is ridiculously hard to evaluate a player who is featured exclusively like that.

Also, a lot of his deep touchdowns where he accelerated beyond corners were against teams that probably don't have a pro prospect on defense.

I just find it hard to believe that:
a) the Seahawks will stay @ #4.
b) if they did stay they'd take Michael Crabtree.

Ruskell's draft patterns do not support taking Michael Crabtree. And, this year with a pick so close the end of the second, he really doesn't have to move around in the second. So, it is likely that they try to trade back into round 1 to take a player like Sanchez who is falling.

Sorry, I don't like Crabtree at 4. If they traded down, maybe. I think that Malcolm Jenkins and Jason Smith are both better options for the Seahawks.



Actually we have...he was this guy called Joe Jurevicious. He played with Hasselbeck for one season and didn't get hurt when everybody else did. He was basically a TE in a WR's body. Great in the redzone. Which is why I kinda have a desire to take a guy like Ramses Bardin in the 3rd. He's big(6'5) and he is a pretty good athlete. He dominated 1-AA. He probably would have done pretty good at 1-A. Another redzone target outside of Carlson would be nice.

EDIT: BTW, what was up with your Shonn Greene pick?
True about Joe J. Where is my head?!? Maybe because his stint with us was way too short... But see how much better Hass was with a big target?!??!

Barden can't get separation, I'm seeing it at the senior bowl practices. We agree that another big target would be nice... Crabtree can be that AND a #1 WR!!!!!!!

Ruskell has drafted Warrick Dunn, Reidel Anthony, and Michael Jenkins (not as head GM, but as a prominent factor in personnel decisions).

With Seattle, he has never had the chance at a top-flight WR.

I don't think his draft patterns really matter in the top five and as I've stated before it is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to trade out of the top five because of the $ factor. It hasn't happened in years. Eli-Rivers in 2004 then before that was 2002 or 2001. I think we are locked in to the #4 spot whether we like it or not.


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Old 01-23-2009, 11:28 PM    (permalink
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True about Joe J. Where is my head?!? Maybe because his stint with us was way too short... But see how much better Hass was with a big target?!??!

Barden can't get separation, I'm seeing it at the senior bowl practices. We agree that another big target would be nice... Crabtree can be that AND a #1 WR!!!!!!!

Ruskell has drafted Warrick Dunn, Reidel Anthony, and Michael Jenkins (not as head GM, but as a prominent factor in personnel decisions).

With Seattle, he has never had the chance at a top-flight WR.

I don't think his draft patterns really matter in the top five and as I've stated before it is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to trade out of the top five because of the $ factor. It hasn't happened in years. Eli-Rivers in 2004 then before that was 2002 or 2001. I think we are locked in to the #4 spot whether we like it or not.
The big difference between Barden and Crabtree size and where they get picked. Big WR's aren't supposed to get as much seperation, their supposed to out jump people. That's just not Crabtree's game.

If Crabtree jumps 40+ at the combine then we might agree on him, but I haven't been able to find footage of him going up and getting the ball. The only one I've seen with him leaving his feet is a fade route where he had to jump like 6 inches.

Warrick Dunn was a running back, not a WR. Never heard of Reidel Anthoney before...and if he wasn't in charge then I am not holding him responsible for drafting Michael Jenkins cuz it wasn't his call.

And Ruskell doesn't believe in drafting first round running backs anymore.

I am still holding out on trading out of #4, and if anybody can do it, it would be Ruskell.

Doesn't look like he caught it....at least his eyes are in the right place though.

Never did say why you had em taking Greene though...

Kropog>>>>Greene and I think that would be reaching for Kropog.
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Old 01-25-2009, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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The big difference between Barden and Crabtree size and where they get picked. Big WR's aren't supposed to get as much seperation, their supposed to out jump people. That's just not Crabtree's game.

If Crabtree jumps 40+ at the combine then we might agree on him, but I haven't been able to find footage of him going up and getting the ball. The only one I've seen with him leaving his feet is a fade route where he had to jump like 6 inches.

Warrick Dunn was a running back, not a WR. Never heard of Reidel Anthoney before...and if he wasn't in charge then I am not holding him responsible for drafting Michael Jenkins cuz it wasn't his call.

And Ruskell doesn't believe in drafting first round running backs anymore.

I am still holding out on trading out of #4, and if anybody can do it, it would be Ruskell.



Doesn't look like he caught it....at least his eyes are in the right place though.

Never did say why you had em taking Greene though...

Kropog>>>>Greene and I think that would be reaching for Kropog.
I just think we go RB. I don't think we re-sign Mo (hope we don't), and I don't think we take a safety there. As far as OT, I don't think our brass feels it's much of a need for this draft because of Walter Jones spoiling us and the faith we have in Locklear not only as a RT, but to also perhaps move over to LT in x amount of years. And it's not like Jones' decline has been steep. And we still have a relative unknown (best case future RT), in Ray Willis. We could probably use a young tackle, but I think "tweaking" will mean a contributor at #37 and Shonn Greene would give us the toughest grind-it-out RB we've had since Watters. Then we can go tackle later on. Just my 2 cents.

As far as Crabs vs. Barden- Crabs CAN get separation. All WRs are "supposed to get separation." Barden is a 4th round pick right now and is no where near on the same level as Tree in terms of quickness and pure receiving skills. You probably can't find too much of Crab going up to the highest point because he's always open...

He's a wonderful natural athlete with fantastic hands. I'm not at all worried about whether or not he can out-jump 5'11 DBs. Plus how many jump-ball fades do we really run? Carlson vs. Jets and before that... ????????
So if he jumps 39 and 3/4 will we have your blessing?
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Old 01-25-2009, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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After watching the senior bowl, I know that Robiskie fits our offense better than Crabtree would. Fast enough to get deep ball respect, hard worker, runs great routes, and has good bulk on his 6'2 frame.
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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That's just my opinion about Kent. Kent has all of the measurables that one looks for in a WR. He has top line speed, size, and jumping ability. He's one of the fastest Seahawks on the team. The only reason he hasn't been given a chance is probably his route running. However, much like Fitzgerald, when the ball is in the air, he goes up and gets it.

This year or next we could be watching one of the top young WR's in the game if Kent develops and starts playing like he is capable of. Of course, the Seahawks may not feel like he is capable of being a starter in the NFL, for some reason.

Just for fun, I'll do a little Kent/Crabtree comparison.
(Crabtree/Kent)
Age: 21/25
Height: 6'3"/6'4"
Weight: 214/219
Draft Selection: Top 15/6th round pick 210
40: 4.55/ Can't find Kent's right now, my search browsers have been acting up, but he was an All-American sprinter @ Oregon.

Kent is taller and faster than Crabtree. He may not have the YAC ability, but he is a much better athlete all around. If he had played football all of his life instead of just a couple of years at Oregon, he would have likely been a 1st round pick. He was a three sport letterman at Oregon, which just attests to how freakish of an athlete he is.

Are you kidding me with this?!?!

You are actually comparing Jordan Kent (who is lucky to still be in the NFL) to Michael Crabtree. When talking about Kent, you failed to mention that he has horrible hands. He also runs horrible routes. He cannot be counted on as a WR. The only reason he is even on the team is because he has size and speed. That's the only reason he was drafted.

Crabtree has only been playing WR for 2 years. He was a QB in high school. His first year as a WR, he won the Biletnikof (sp?) award for best WR in the country. Unlike Kent, Crabtree not only has the size and smarts to play WR, but he has the best hands in the country.

Again I ask, are you kidding me?
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Old 01-25-2009, 06:40 PM    (permalink
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I just think we go RB. I don't think we re-sign Mo (hope we don't), and I don't think we take a safety there. As far as OT, I don't think our brass feels it's much of a need for this draft because of Walter Jones spoiling us and the faith we have in Locklear not only as a RT, but to also perhaps move over to LT in x amount of years. And it's not like Jones' decline has been steep. And we still have a relative unknown (best case future RT), in Ray Willis. We could probably use a young tackle, but I think "tweaking" will mean a contributor at #37 and Shonn Greene would give us the toughest grind-it-out RB we've had since Watters. Then we can go tackle later on. Just my 2 cents.

As far as Crabs vs. Barden- Crabs CAN get separation. All WRs are "supposed to get separation." Barden is a 4th round pick right now and is no where near on the same level as Tree in terms of quickness and pure receiving skills. You probably can't find too much of Crab going up to the highest point because he's always open...

He's a wonderful natural athlete with fantastic hands. I'm not at all worried about whether or not he can out-jump 5'11 DBs. Plus how many jump-ball fades do we really run? Carlson vs. Jets and before that... ????????
So if he jumps 39 and 3/4 will we have your blessing?
I just have trouble seeing Greene as an early second pick. If he was there in the third, then yeah I wouldn't be adverse to taking him, but it just doesn't feel right going WR/RB in the first two rounds. Especially if we could get a guy like Andre Brown later on in the draft.

I doubt we draft Bardin. I was really just throwing him out there as a tall WR. Someone who isn't going to be able to get seperation and has to outjump people.

We don't throw many fade routes because we don't have WR's that can go up and get the ball. Having a WR that is a jump ball threat would give this offense another facet that they need. Since Crabtree doesn't have anywhere near blinding speed, he is going to have to outjump faster NFL corners to get the ball. He won't be open anywhere near as much in the NFL as he is in college.


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After watching the senior bowl, I know that Robiskie fits our offense better than Crabtree would. Fast enough to get deep ball respect, hard worker, runs great routes, and has good bulk on his 6'2 frame.
I liked Robiskie all year. Doubt they took him in the second, but do you think that he would fall to them in the third?

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Are you kidding me with this?!?!

You are actually comparing Jordan Kent (who is lucky to still be in the NFL) to Michael Crabtree. When talking about Kent, you failed to mention that he has horrible hands. He also runs horrible routes. He cannot be counted on as a WR. The only reason he is even on the team is because he has size and speed. That's the only reason he was drafted.

Crabtree has only been playing WR for 2 years. He was a QB in high school. His first year as a WR, he won the Biletnikof (sp?) award for best WR in the country. Unlike Kent, Crabtree not only has the size and smarts to play WR, but he has the best hands in the country.

Again I ask, are you kidding me?
Yes I am comparing Jordan Kent to Michael Crabtree, therefore I am not kidding you.

Kent played WR for two years at Oregon. That was the first time he played football (as far as I know), so if he's not a polished product I hope you can understand why, giving as how this would be his fourth year of football.

Crabtree is going to be questioned a lot more as the draft approaches because Graham Harrel is showing he doesn't have anything even remotely close to an NFL arm. Most of the passes that Crabtree catches are within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage. He doesn't have top line speed, so many of those 20 yard receptions he had where he caught the ball at or near the line of scrimmage and ran for almost all 20 aren't going to happen. Teams are going to notice that he doesn't have great elusiveness and he can be brought down easily at times.

If your a WR that relies on YAC, you need to have something to set you apart. Without great elusiveness or topline speed do you actually see Crabtree doing anywhere near the damage he did in college? I don't.

He was in a system that bolstered his stats. If he had gone to any school not named Texas Tech, he would not have won the Biletnikof. In fact, we would not be having this discussion about how great Crabtree is. We probably wouldn't even know his name.

The place that I think Crabtree is best suited in the NFL is at slot receiver. That is probably where he is going to end up after a team tries to make him their #1. He could probably be one of the greatest slot receivers ever, but do you take a slot receiver at 4?
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