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Old 01-27-2009, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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The arguments for Crabtree are generally based off of him making an instant impact. Rookie WR's generally don't make that big of an impact.

There is a direct correlation between route running and success in the NFL. That is why almost every person who plays fantasy football knows about the "third year rule." Where WR's turly begin to make a fantasy impact is in their third year. That is because it takes about 3 years to learn how to run NFL routes. Crabtree is even farther behind than most WR's (on the route running learning curve) because he runs little else than slants and screens. If you want an immediate impact at WR, you have to look for someone who is known for their route running in college.

A quick screen is used in the NFL maybe 1-5 times per game. It also isn't always ran to a WR.

I think if you take a WR top 5 he had better be a Larry Fitzgerald/Andre Johnson tpye of player. I don't see Crabtree as being able to do that. His skill set is different. He may end up being a great WR, but I just don't think he is an elite WR like those two.

Since you guys are hell bent on the Seahawks taking Crabtree and seem to think that Ruskell has no choice but to take him, I have a question for you.

Did you even begin to suspect the Seahawks would take Lawrence Jackson in the first last year?

I know I didn't. I gave them Jonathan Stewart and Kentwan Balmer in my mocks last year. One early (very early) mock had them taking Martellus Bennett. Never once did I even see a draft, any draft, giving the Seahawks Jackson. The point being, we have no idea where Ruskell is going to go with his picks. I still think the Seahawks ultimately trade down if possible. If not they take the best value on the board, which is either Malcolm Jenkins or one of the OT's.

Also, jballa and I were talking about this earlier in the year. Ruskell has a tendency to draft safely on offense, especially early on. .
Okay first of all, I have never said I wanted to draft Crabtree because I thought he would help us immediately. I know that it is possible that he won't contribute his rookie year. But honestly, that tookie WR argument doesnt hold much water anymore. Every year now, we see more and more rookie WRs make an immediate impact. Just this last year there was Eddie Royal, DeSean Jackson, Donnie Avery, etc. Previously there has been guys like Marques Colston, Dwayne Bowe, Roy Williams, Calvin Johnson, etc. Aside from Johnson and maybe Williams, none of those guys were even as highly regarded as Crabtree. So you are wrong there. The 3 year WR rule no longer applies.

I didnt say I saw him as a Larry Fitzgerald/Andre Johnson type WR. I said I see him as an Anquan Boldin/Brandon Marshall type player. You know this, you are just trying to switch it up for your argument, and its not working.

And of course no one is going to be able to peg who a team is going to draft at the end of round 1. They have NO IDEA who is going to be there when we pick. I guarantee you that if Stewart was there when Seattle picked they would ahve taken him over Jackson. It is a lot easier to judge who a team in the top 5 or 10 is going to take. That is why most of the mocks get most of the top 10 right, but start falling off the more picks there are. Its really common sense.

And Ruskell has never had a top 5 or 10 pick so you cant use the argument that he picks safely, because you have never seen him in this position.
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Old 01-27-2009, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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Okay first of all, I have never said I wanted to draft Crabtree because I thought he would help us immediately. I know that it is possible that he won't contribute his rookie year. But honestly, that tookie WR argument doesnt hold much water anymore. Every year now, we see more and more rookie WRs make an immediate impact. Just this last year there was Eddie Royal, DeSean Jackson, Donnie Avery, etc. Previously there has been guys like Marques Colston, Dwayne Bowe, Roy Williams, Calvin Johnson, etc. Aside from Johnson and maybe Williams, none of those guys were even as highly regarded as Crabtree. So you are wrong there. The 3 year WR rule no longer applies.

I didnt say I saw him as a Larry Fitzgerald/Andre Johnson type WR. I said I see him as an Anquan Boldin/Brandon Marshall type player. You know this, you are just trying to switch it up for your argument, and its not working.

And of course no one is going to be able to peg who a team is going to draft at the end of round 1. They have NO IDEA who is going to be there when we pick. I guarantee you that if Stewart was there when Seattle picked they would ahve taken him over Jackson. It is a lot easier to judge who a team in the top 5 or 10 is going to take. That is why most of the mocks get most of the top 10 right, but start falling off the more picks there are. Its really common sense.

And Ruskell has never had a top 5 or 10 pick so you cant use the argument that he picks safely, because you have never seen him in this position.
I'm not saying that you are comparing him to Fitz or Johnson. I am saying that is what I believe a WR should become if he is taken in the top 5.

Also, many of the rookie WR's that you listed were above average in route running or they had some other thing that set them drastically apart from every other WR. The three this year are all speed guys. Johnson was a freak and is the ultimate WR prospect. There was no way someone as freakishly athletic as Johnson wouldn't contribute. I just don't think that Crabtree is as athletic as people make him out to be. Almost every one ran more types of routes in college than Crabtree was required to.

And I know that you hate it when I say this, but if he wants to make an impact his rookie season it is going to be in a slot role where he can hunker down and catch the ball in between zones. The slot role is really what he is most prepared for right now.

Crabtree may ultimately be a great WR down the road, but I just can't see it right now. He seems like a possession guy to me. I still don't think he is worth a Top 5 pick. Shutdown corners are worth top 5 picks. Franchise LT's are worth top 5 picks. Premier pass rushers are worth Top 5 picks. WR's value as a Top 5 pick has been going down to the point where you have to be freakishly athletic to even be considered anymore. Do you honestly think Crabtree is that good of an athlete?

As for Stewart last year, he was also a hometown kid. He grew up in Washington, played college in the Northwest. He would have been the most popular pick by far. Still doesn't mean that Ruskell would have taken him...

Ultimately, we can only guess. So, until the combine is over, it kinda seems pointless right now to discuss Crabtree, or anyone else who only has two years of tape to go on. The combine isn't the ultimate measurement for where prospects go, but there are too many questions in my mind about Crabtree right now to encourage him being picked at #4. The combine might answer some, but it is almost impossible for me to ever be comfortable with Crabtree.

EDIT: Looking through the Senior Bowl stuff, the list of past first rounders caught my eye. I think that I may have found another trend of Ruskell's.

The first player that he has taken each year, with Seattle, has been a senior. I can't really verify this without some more research, but just looking at it.

He arrived in 2005 (or was it 2004...) and took Chris Spencer, a participant of the Senior Bowl.

Next year, Kelly Jennings, participant of the Senior Bowl.

Josh Wilson (I can't confirm this right now but I believe he was a senior).

Lawrence Jackson

All seniors. This may extend deeper into the draft, but I have to find that stuff first.
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Old 01-27-2009, 02:57 PM    (permalink
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I'm not saying that you are comparing him to Fitz or Johnson. I am saying that is what I believe a WR should become if he is taken in the top 5.

Also, many of the rookie WR's that you listed were above average in route running or they had some other thing that set them drastically apart from every other WR. The three this year are all speed guys. Johnson was a freak and is the ultimate WR prospect. There was no way someone as freakishly athletic as Johnson wouldn't contribute. I just don't think that Crabtree is as athletic as people make him out to be. Almost every one ran more types of routes in college than Crabtree was required to.

And I know that you hate it when I say this, but if he wants to make an impact his rookie season it is going to be in a slot role where he can hunker down and catch the ball in between zones. The slot role is really what he is most prepared for right now.

Crabtree may ultimately be a great WR down the road, but I just can't see it right now. He seems like a possession guy to me. I still don't think he is worth a Top 5 pick. Shutdown corners are worth top 5 picks. Franchise LT's are worth top 5 picks. Premier pass rushers are worth Top 5 picks. WR's value as a Top 5 pick has been going down to the point where you have to be freakishly athletic to even be considered anymore. Do you honestly think Crabtree is that good of an athlete?

As for Stewart last year, he was also a hometown kid. He grew up in Washington, played college in the Northwest. He would have been the most popular pick by far. Still doesn't mean that Ruskell would have taken him...

Ultimately, we can only guess. So, until the combine is over, it kinda seems pointless right now to discuss Crabtree, or anyone else who only has two years of tape to go on. The combine isn't the ultimate measurement for where prospects go, but there are too many questions in my mind about Crabtree right now to encourage him being picked at #4. The combine might answer some, but it is almost impossible for me to ever be comfortable with Crabtree.

EDIT: Looking through the Senior Bowl stuff, the list of past first rounders caught my eye. I think that I may have found another trend of Ruskell's.

The first player that he has taken each year, with Seattle, has been a senior. I can't really verify this without some more research, but just looking at it.

He arrived in 2005 (or was it 2004...) and took Chris Spencer, a participant of the Senior Bowl.

Next year, Kelly Jennings, participant of the Senior Bowl.

Josh Wilson (I can't confirm this right now but I believe he was a senior).

Lawrence Jackson

All seniors. This may extend deeper into the draft, but I have to find that stuff first.
You are really grasping at straws now. Give it up, you don't have a legit argument against Crabtree. You keep saying that he doesnt run enough routes, but that is completely false. That isnt even a knock on him at all. Sure most of his big plays come on slants and reverses where it allows him to be a YAC guy. Hass is money at slants so he will fit right in. He also runs posts, outs, ins, I havent really seen him run a fade probably because Harrell's arm sucks. The fact that his arm strength isnt good is not something to downgrade Crab for, if anything its a strength to wonder what he could do with a better QB.

It doesnt say anything about Crabtree that he is best suited to come in at 3 WR situations. Thats what most rookie WRs do anyways. Like I said, Crabtree is more highly regarded than most of the rookie WRs I listed, and they had very good rookie seasons.

Ruskell's criteria for his picks are that they go to a big school, play against big competition, and contribute for more than just one break out year. He likes guys who have proven they can consistently play at a high level. I think Crabtree fits that criteria.

Fact is, you are really struggling to find an argument.
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Old 01-27-2009, 03:05 PM    (permalink
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I think the Hawks should pick Cabtree
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Old 01-27-2009, 03:28 PM    (permalink
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I think the Hawks should pick Cabtree
I think this is probably the best argument I've heard. Completely agree. There really isn't much more to say.

I also never said I am for the Tree pick so he can contribute immediately. Sure I'd like him to, but I don't think at all he'll walk right in and be an elite WR. I do think in year two or three he would become that.

I want him because I believe he can become a great player in this league and a staple of our receiving corps for years to come.

About the Ruskell-trend stuff... it just doesn't matter what he's done here. There is a first time for everything and we've never seen him in the top five. It is very easy to take a "safe" pick at the end of round one. When you have the shot at potential star players in the top five you can't be too scared to pull the trigger. The #s do indicate that there is a chance for highly picked WRs to bust. There is also a chance they become GREAT players.

I trust our personnel guys to make the right decision in the case of Crabtree and ultimately select him, as I believe (only my opinion that "coincidentally" is shared by most who follow football) that he will be a great player in this league down the road (hopefully he can contribute in his rookie year too).
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Old 01-27-2009, 05:44 PM    (permalink
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couple things.

you mentioned the WRs that made an immediate impact. Thats great and all, but corners have actually had more of an impact, with guys like Revis, Talib, DRC, McKelvin, Flowers, Jenkins and others starting immediately. None of those were top 5 picks, but they are all solid corners.

Last years draft had zero first round WR's so this is hard to judge, but none drafted are their teams #1s. take it for what it's worth.

and I lost my train of though. GO SEAHAWKS.
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Old 01-28-2009, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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couple things.

you mentioned the WRs that made an immediate impact. Thats great and all, but corners have actually had more of an impact, with guys like Revis, Talib, DRC, McKelvin, Flowers, Jenkins and others starting immediately. None of those were top 5 picks, but they are all solid corners.

Last years draft had zero first round WR's so this is hard to judge, but none drafted are their teams #1s. take it for what it's worth.

and I lost my train of though. GO SEAHAWKS.
Your 100% right about the corners. That's ultimately why I think that Jenkins is a much better pick. He would be able to step in and start from day one.

Also, you have to look at the players in front of the WR's who made an impact. Outside of Jackson, every other team had an impact WR in front of the player they drafted.

I think we may only end up seeing two WR's drafted in the first this year.

I g2g right now, but before I leave, I'll say that Jenkins is my personal pick, but at the moment, Oher is the likely pick.
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Old 01-28-2009, 05:09 PM    (permalink
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I also think Seattle drafts Malcolm Jenkins, and then takes a WR later on in the following rounds.

I think the big question to ask though, do you like a duo of say Malcolm Jenkins & Hakeem Nicks/Brian Robiskie better than a duo of Michael Crabtree & Darius Butler/Jarius Byrd?

The good thing though, it's pretty close either way. Very close actually, I'm actually hard-pressed to pick one.

It won't turn out like Miami Dolphins thinking that Teddy Ginn & John Beck were a better duo than Brady Quinn & a 2nd round pick. Which is laughable.
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Old 01-28-2009, 10:10 PM    (permalink
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Your 100% right about the corners. That's ultimately why I think that Jenkins is a much better pick. He would be able to step in and start from day one.

Also, you have to look at the players in front of the WR's who made an impact. Outside of Jackson, every other team had an impact WR in front of the player they drafted.

I think we may only end up seeing two WR's drafted in the first this year.

I g2g right now, but before I leave, I'll say that Jenkins is my personal pick, but at the moment, Oher is the likely pick.
Which of those corners came in and started immediately? I'm thinking Revis and no one else. Maybe a couple of them were starting later in the season but not immediately.

We've also been over this with WRs. I had a better list of rookie WRs who came in and put up good #s their first season. If you are looking for immediate impact(at least now days) WR is better than CB.
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Old 01-28-2009, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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Which of those corners came in and started immediately? I'm thinking Revis and no one else. Maybe a couple of them were starting later in the season but not immediately.

We've also been over this with WRs. I had a better list of rookie WRs who came in and put up good #s their first season. If you are looking for immediate impact(at least now days) WR is better than CB.
DRC, McKelvin, Talib and Flowers all start I believe. granted Royal and DeSean both tore it up, but thats a solid list either way.

EDIT: I missed the word immedately. I think DRC did and maybe Flowers, but Revis is the best comparison to what we'd be getting from Jenkins in theory.
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Old 01-28-2009, 11:36 PM    (permalink
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DRC, McKelvin, Talib and Flowers all start I believe. granted Royal and DeSean both tore it up, but thats a solid list either way.

EDIT: I missed the word immedately. I think DRC did and maybe Flowers, but Revis is the best comparison to what we'd be getting from Jenkins in theory.
That said, there is still probably a bigger list of WRs who came in and played very well their rookie season than CBs. So I just dont like that argument.

If you think Jenkins would be a good pick, that is fine. In my opinion, I wouldnt spend another high pick on a CB when we have Trufant and 2 other young, high picks with potential on the team.
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Old 01-29-2009, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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The more I think about it, the more I am beginning to think we take Oher. He went to the Senior Bowl and competed, which is very important in Ruskell's mind. He may have to be brought along slowly, but he has a nasty streak and I think that he would be a good fit.

I am seriously disappointed with Jennings, and as far as I'm concerned, I really don't care if I ever see him play another down in Seattle.

The biggest impact a lot of rookie CB's have is if they are able to get picks. If they show the knack for being a ball hawk in college, then they generally are able to get a couple of picks as rookies. That said, we do need to upgrade our CB position (height wise). A bigger physical corner would be a nice complement to Trufant and Wilson. We do need to address that early.

Just going with my feeling right now, I think they go:
1. Trade down - Oher (Or even if they stay @ 4)
2. Percy Harvin (pipe dream I know...) or Darius Butler/Sean Smith
(although if Alphonso Smith was there they may have to take him. He is probably the best ballhawk in this draft and if he was two-three inches taller then we'd probably be talking about taking him at #4)
3. Brain Robiskie
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Old 01-29-2009, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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I am seriously disappointed with Jennings, and as far as I'm concerned, I really don't care if I ever see him play another down in Seattle.

The biggest impact a lot of rookie CB's have is if they are able to get picks. If they show the knack for being a ball hawk in college, then they generally are able to get a couple of picks as rookies. That said, we do need to upgrade our CB position (height wise). A bigger physical corner would be a nice complement to Trufant and Wilson. We do need to address that early.
No we don't. I don't know if you are just trying to argue with me or if you just have no clue. Trufant and Jennings are both 5'11". That is average to above average for CBs. Champ Bailey is listen at 6'0", Asante Samuel is 5'10", Terrence Newman is 5'11", Cortland Finnegan is 5'10", Ronde Barber is 5'10", the list goes on and on. We DO NOT need to get bigger. We actually are above average in height on a lot of great corners. I can guarantee you we wont draft CB in the first 3 rounds.
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Old 01-30-2009, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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No we don't. I don't know if you are just trying to argue with me or if you just have no clue. Trufant and Jennings are both 5'11". That is average to above average for CBs. Champ Bailey is listen at 6'0", Asante Samuel is 5'10", Terrence Newman is 5'11", Cortland Finnegan is 5'10", Ronde Barber is 5'10", the list goes on and on. We DO NOT need to get bigger. We actually are above average in height on a lot of great corners. I can guarantee you we wont draft CB in the first 3 rounds.
There is a difference between being listed at 5'11 and playing like your 5'11. I don't know what it is about Jennings, but he constantly gets beat be receivers who aren't much taller than him going up over him. We're not just talking elite WR's (Fitz & Boldin) either. We don't have a truly physical corner, and I think we need one to create match up problems against guys who don't handle getting jammed off the line very well. Wilson plays bigger than he is, but he doesn't have the body to get physical with a lot of receivers. Our corners are more finesse guys than physical guys.

What fits the profile of a Tampa 2 corner? Cause I am trying to picture it right now, but I'm not sure if it's right...

What I am picturing is corners that are supposed to be physical at the line of scrimmage. So a bigger, more physical CB would be a likely pick. However, we need to replace Brian Russel at safety first. It's really gonna depend on value at the position.
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Old 01-30-2009, 10:19 PM    (permalink
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There is a difference between being listed at 5'11 and playing like your 5'11. I don't know what it is about Jennings, but he constantly gets beat be receivers who aren't much taller than him going up over him. We're not just talking elite WR's (Fitz & Boldin) either. We don't have a truly physical corner, and I think we need one to create match up problems against guys who don't handle getting jammed off the line very well. Wilson plays bigger than he is, but he doesn't have the body to get physical with a lot of receivers. Our corners are more finesse guys than physical guys.

What fits the profile of a Tampa 2 corner? Cause I am trying to picture it right now, but I'm not sure if it's right...

What I am picturing is corners that are supposed to be physical at the line of scrimmage. So a bigger, more physical CB would be a likely pick. However, we need to replace Brian Russel at safety first. It's really gonna depend on value at the position.
Jennings is having the same problem that Trufant had early on in his career. He is always in position, he just doesnt make plays on the ball. Trufant was EXACTLY the same way years ago. I still think Jennings will make a very good corner, sooner rather than later. He just needs to learn to look back for the ball and be able to play the ball better and he will be good. He is always in great position.

Unless there is an amazing value somewhere, there is no way we draft a corner in the first 3 rounds. A safety however, is a likely pick.
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Old 01-30-2009, 11:29 PM    (permalink
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What fits the profile of a Tampa 2 corner? Cause I am trying to picture it right now, but I'm not sure if it's right...
Height doesn't matter as much weight because he must be a willing and physical tackler. It is critical in the scheme of the defense, he is attacking what is in front of him, whether that be a runner or receiver. Got to give up as few yards as possible and punish the opponent, like the rest of the defense.

Chances are, the guy isn't a burner. And in the classic/oft-mentioned example, actually doesn't have great long-speed (your 4.5something guys, etcetera). Although there are T2 corners who run sub-4.5 really, but you definitely won't find any 4.3something burners, you know?

But what matters more are potential ball and recognition skills - especially when reading what's in front of him and breaking on the ball. Some teams may discount a player because he doesn't have great long-speed, but the T2 (even if they play a lot of Cover 3 to help out against the run) places more cornerback emphasis on defending the short and intermediate passes. Why? The potent pass rush of the front four forces the opposing quarterback to not hold onto the ball for long, and you have at least one safety with deep coverage responsibilities.

You can play man coverage with the Tampa 2, if you have the corners capable of doing it. I want to say Mora Jr. played man in San Francisco and Atlanta? though I don't recall exactly.
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Old 02-02-2009, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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Michael Irvin on Crabtree
Posted by Eric Williams @ 09:01:13 am
With mock drafts currently listing the Seattle Seahawks drafting Michael Crabtree, I decided to try and roundup some more information on him. And who better to talk to but Michael Irvin, a friend of the Crabtree family and one of the people advising the redshirt sophomore as he prepares for the upcoming April draft.

Crabtree, who recently announced he's entering this year's draft, is working out with Olympic champion sprinter Michael Johnson and receiving advice from Irvin and Deion Sanders as he prepares for the combine and his pro day. Crabtree will not run the 40-yard dash at the combine, but will run at his Pro Day.

[More:]

Even after the gaudy numbers and spectacular plays Crabtree has put together over his college career, and his two Fred Biletnikoff awards as the best college in the country, there are still lingering questions about the talented receiver.

Is he fast enough?

Is he injury prone?

Is he a system player?

Irvin addressed some of those issues in a conversation I had with him during Super Bowl week.

“I think he’s going to be a phenomenal player in this league, but he has to fall into the right system,” Irvin said. “You cannot put a big guy like Crabtree in a system that caters to small receivers, what I call a scat system. You have to put him in a system where his size and strength can be used to his advantage.

“This is what confuses me a lot of times. When you talk about players and where they would play and how would they perform, people tend to think that you can take any player and play him anywhere, if he’s a true player. But true success comes when you put a player in a system that fits his talent. And his talent, he’s a big guy. So put him in a timing offense. Let him run some out routes, timing routes. Get the ball in his hands and let these DBs fall off of him because he’s such a big, strong runner. He reminds me a lot of Anquan Boldin. And I love Boldin. He’s a beast. And so is Crabtree.

“In this game now, when you’ve got a guy who can run like that, go and get the ball and you can’t touch him after five yards anymore? Oh God, that’s advantage offense all the way right there.”

Not necessarily a burner himself, but now in the Hall of Fame and considered one of the best receivers to play the game, Irvin said the speed question should be considered in a larger, overall perspective.

Irvin talked about game speed, and maintaining speed over the course of the game. He said some guys are running 4.4 40-yard dashes at the beginning of the game, but their speed decreases through the course of the contest and they’re slower in the fourth quarter. Irvin believes that Crabtree has the kind of endurance and strength to maintain his speed throughout the game, and that he makes plays with the game on the line in the fourth quarter.

“The difference between a 4.7 and a 4.5 (is this),” Irvin said, quickly snapping his fingers twice. “You can barely get it on your hands if you pressed your thumb and pressed it again. … And we discount game speed, and we discount strength.

“I don’t just want to know your speed in the first quarter. I want to know your speed in the fourth quarter because I’m not winning any games in the first quarter. This guy, Michael Crabtree has fourth quarter speed.”

He also said Crabtree would be a good fit in the West Coast offense because of his ability to run after the catch, and compared Crabtree’s running ability to Jerry Rice and Terrell Owens, who both played in the West Coast offense in San Francisco. Irvin joked that he wished he would have had a chance to play in the West Coast offense, but couldn’t look back with too much disappointment because he has three Super Bowl rings.

“That system fits,” Irvin said. “That’s a timing system that allows him to put the ball in his hands as early as you can and let him go do what he can do with it. And you know he has some RAC ability -- some run after catch. So for him, that’s a great system.”


Irvin talked about the reality TV show he’ll host, which pits six receivers against six defensive backs for a chance to earn a spot on the Dallas Cowboys’ 80-man training camp roster
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Old 02-02-2009, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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Quick question to the those on the Jenkins bandwagon (who have now somehow manipulated more than half of the mock-makers into believing we'll pass on Crabtree):

Would you feel confident with Josh Wilson starting the season at CB?

I think this is an important question, and I think the FO will answer this question with a resounding "yes" after the improvement last year and decide not to draft a CB.

If your answer is "no" I really don't care why because we did not have access to the film that shows how he REALLY played. All we saw was when he was thrown at.

I just think its early to strip a guy of his shot at being a solid starting player after just two years and some nice progress.
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Old 02-02-2009, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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I guess thats the real question. I am really at a loss for what we do with this pick.
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Old 02-02-2009, 08:34 PM    (permalink
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The more I think about this pick, the more I see them going OT. A scheme corner doesn't make sense at 4, but I just don't see Crabtree still. Irvin can talk Crabtree up all he wants, but I still have trouble seeing him as being worth the #4 overall pick. Now if the Seahawks traded down to say 7 or later, then I could see Crabtree. Top 5 though...just seems kinda early to me. My big problem with Crabtree isn't the Seahawks taking him...it's taking him at #4 where he's going to be costing you probably close to a Terrell Owens/Randy Moss type of player.

Jason Smith is by far my favorite OT and I think he would be worth the #4 overall pick, but I think that Michael Oher is going to be the selection come draft day.

Safety is a bigger need than corner by far. I am still upset about Mays going back to school...the Seahawks probably would have jumped all over him at 4...and he could have replaced Russell immediately and we would have had a legitamate FS...
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Old 02-03-2009, 12:28 AM    (permalink
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LOL. SO TELL THE 75% of NFLDC MOCKERS THIS!

Do you guys realize how many people are giving us Malcolm Jenkins now? I really don't think we will ever consider him at #4...

I agree that Mays was a guy I would've liked because we need a safety. OT or QB isn't bad either. I just don't think we should draft a CB that high at all.
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Old 02-03-2009, 03:58 PM    (permalink
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LOL. SO TELL THE 75% of NFLDC MOCKERS THIS!

Do you guys realize how many people are giving us Malcolm Jenkins now? I really don't think we will ever consider him at #4...

I agree that Mays was a guy I would've liked because we need a safety. OT or QB isn't bad either. I just don't think we should draft a CB that high at all.
It doesn't matter what you tell them. About 60% still give us Crabtree, 30% give us Jenkins, and everybody else gives us Andre Smith...

Jenkins I stilll think is a legitamate shut-down corner, but in the Tampa 2 scheme, it's not a priority to have shut-down corners. If they had stayed with their vanilla cover 2, then yeah Jenkins would have definately gotten serious consideration.

I would still like them to go defense, but the only other players on the defensive side remotely close to being worth the pick are Aaron Curry (who could be gone anyways by #4) and whoever your top DE is. They won't take Curry, and taking Lawrence Jackson last year pretty much rules out paying top 5 money to a DE. I still think it is early for Raji, but I could see Ruskell reaching to get him.

The only player I am comfortable with the Seahawks taking @ 4 is an OT. No offense to Sanchez or Stafford, but taking one of them that early is going to be a huge mistake with the normal fan. It would almost be like we just pushed Hasselbeck off of a cliff.

Unless we trade down, I think that OT is the direction we go. Course, I think that Ruskell will manage to find a way to trade down. I have this nasty little feeling that he is going to trade to Philadelphia for their firsts...

EDIT: Just found out that we are only $9 million under the cap this year. How much do you think this affects our draft strategy?
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:16 PM    (permalink
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It doesn't matter what you tell them. About 60% still give us Crabtree, 30% give us Jenkins, and everybody else gives us Andre Smith...

Jenkins I stilll think is a legitamate shut-down corner, but in the Tampa 2 scheme, it's not a priority to have shut-down corners. If they had stayed with their vanilla cover 2, then yeah Jenkins would have definately gotten serious consideration.

I would still like them to go defense, but the only other players on the defensive side remotely close to being worth the pick are Aaron Curry (who could be gone anyways by #4) and whoever your top DE is. They won't take Curry, and taking Lawrence Jackson last year pretty much rules out paying top 5 money to a DE. I still think it is early for Raji, but I could see Ruskell reaching to get him.

The only player I am comfortable with the Seahawks taking @ 4 is an OT. No offense to Sanchez or Stafford, but taking one of them that early is going to be a huge mistake with the normal fan. It would almost be like we just pushed Hasselbeck off of a cliff.

Unless we trade down, I think that OT is the direction we go. Course, I think that Ruskell will manage to find a way to trade down. I have this nasty little feeling that he is going to trade to Philadelphia for their firsts...

EDIT: Just found out that we are only $9 million under the cap this year. How much do you think this affects our draft strategy?
-If we lose one or both (could possibly release JP) of our OLBs, that becomes something we would look to address. D.D. Lewis could re-sign and take over one starting spot for a lot less money.

-DT may be OK even when/if we lose Rocky Bernard.

-I don't think losing Engram will affect our draft plans at all. We could use at least one WR, and probably two would be ideal.

-Losing Weaver and Morris definitely means we look at RB. I think we'll let both walk.

-Losing Ray Willis would make OT an even more immediate need for the depth factor.

As far as adding free agents I don't think we'll do much besides a role player here and there- especially if we can lock up Hill. If not, maybe we'll get one starting quality guy in free agency.
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:52 PM    (permalink
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ANYONE Want to help me in the Forum Offseason? Looking for ASST guys.
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Old 02-04-2009, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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-If we lose one or both (could possibly release JP) of our OLBs, that becomes something we would look to address. D.D. Lewis could re-sign and take over one starting spot for a lot less money.

-DT may be OK even when/if we lose Rocky Bernard.

-I don't think losing Engram will affect our draft plans at all. We could use at least one WR, and probably two would be ideal.

-Losing Weaver and Morris definitely means we look at RB. I think we'll let both walk.

-Losing Ray Willis would make OT an even more immediate need for the depth factor.

As far as adding free agents I don't think we'll do much besides a role player here and there- especially if we can lock up Hill. If not, maybe we'll get one starting quality guy in free agency.
Releasing Peterson...seriously? Where'd you here that? If we don't resign Hill we could be in trouble...

I don't think Bernard is coming back to Seattle.

Engram would be nice to have back next year. He may only play for a couple more years, but he is a great security blanket at WR. But your right, they are probably going to be looking at drafting a replacement.

We have to resign Weaver. He is essential to this team.

Willis impressed me this season. I'd like to see him come back, but it could be hard to retain someone who has shown the ability to play at LT, perhaps long term someday.

We don't really have the cap room to play around much in FA. That number will be even lower if we manage to resign Hill.

I'm not sure about how the rookie contracts work, but it's should be a huge cap hit. Can the Seahawks actually afford to draft @ 4 with that cap number? btw they are 26th in the league in cap space.
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I don't really understand...but I am on almost every day so I guess I could help out once in a while.

EDIT: Just found something saying that we won't be an exclusive ZBS team. Knapp wants to keep defenses guessing.
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