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Old 10-15-2008, 05:01 PM    (permalink
Jughead10
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Originally Posted by DMWSackMachine View Post
Say what you want, Scotty, but the Giants had been able to move the ball basically at will against the Browns. They couldn't stop them running the ball, and they couldn't stop the passing game. Hell, even after the beating they were handing the G-Men, Eli had his team inside the 20 yard line driving in for a score to cut the lead back to 6 and threw a pick that literally ended the game. Horrible decision, horrible throw.

I'm not meaning to say that Eli was the only reason why they lost. When you get pounded like that, there's always plenty of reasons. I'm saying that he is, by far, the BIGGEST of all those reasons. So much so that, if he had simply not thrown those 3 picks, I believe they would have won the game.
Two things. Are you sure about those stats in your previous posts. I remember Eli having very effecient game against Detroit last year. The 33 passer rating doesn't seem correct. I know you are actually kind of defending him, but that number doesn't seem right to me.

As for Monday. Eli was the second biggest reason we lost. Did we make the Browns punt once? Did we even lay a finger on Anderson? Even if we scored that last TD instead of Wright taking it to the house, I couldn't count on our D to make a stop that day. We slept walked through that game. Also out of all the picks, I think the third was least worst. Wright made some damn play on that ball.
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Old 10-15-2008, 05:07 PM    (permalink
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Or in week 1 against a mediocre Washington team (at the time)...

The fact is, i believe, with the exception of the playoffs, the team manages to win despite him.
Just for the record, in the 2007 regular season, his two best games were againt the Cowboys and Patriots.
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Old 10-15-2008, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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Yet the Giants and Steelers have both won Superbowls since then while San Diego already had the best player in the league before that draft.
Both teams had superbowl teams, even last year with all the injuries we had, we still got to the afc championship. And one player doesnt win a superbowl, so i dont know how you're going with what you;re saying.
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Old 10-15-2008, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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Two things. Are you sure about those stats in your previous posts. I remember Eli having very effecient game against Detroit last year. The 33 passer rating doesn't seem correct. I know you are actually kind of defending him, but that number doesn't seem right to me.

As for Monday. Eli was the second biggest reason we lost. Did we make the Browns punt once? Did we even lay a finger on Anderson? Even if we scored that last TD instead of Wright taking it to the house, I couldn't count on our D to make a stop that day. We slept walked through that game. Also out of all the picks, I think the third was least worst. Wright made some damn play on that ball.
That 33.8 rating was against the Vikings when he threw all those INT's. He had a 100.7 rating against the Lions.
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Old 10-15-2008, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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See Eli has more going for him than just last years playoff run, sure it was the first stretch where you saw him consistently playing great against elite teams, but before then he had shown the ability to drive us for scores late in games when we needed them and that clutchness is why us giants faithful love him so much. Watching a giants game we're comfortable knowing that even if we're down in the 4th Eli will lead us down the field and give us a chance to win, which is important with such a hit or miss Defense.
i wouldnt call inconsistency clutch
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Old 10-15-2008, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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Just for the record, in the 2007 regular season, his two best games were againt the Cowboys and Patriots.
Statistically the game was the best in week 17 with 4 td's against a very generous patriots defense.

But, if you don't remember, he also manage to lose the game for them with that late inning interception.

I will concede the fact that yes, he has risen to the occasion on multiple times, but if you look against the last calender year, he's not much better than he was in the regular season.
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Old 10-15-2008, 06:07 PM    (permalink
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Statistically the game was the best in week 17 with 4 td's against a very generous patriots defense.

But, if you don't remember, he also manage to lose the game for them with that late inning interception.

I will concede the fact that yes, he has risen to the occasion on multiple times, but if you look against the last calender year, he's not much better than he was in the regular season.
He also managed to beat that same team 5 weeks later with a late TD when it mattered more.
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Old 10-15-2008, 06:11 PM    (permalink
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He also managed to beat that same team 5 weeks later with a late TD when it mattered more.
Plaxico was the reason for that TD. Any QB could hit a man wide open in the end zone. As for the drive leading to the TD, fluke of epic proportions.
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Old 10-15-2008, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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Plaxico was the reason for that TD. Any QB could hit a man wide open in the end zone. As for the drive leading to the TD, fluke of epic proportions.
now come on, if any other QB makes that drive it's ZOMGZ best QB eva, total clutchz0rg.

But Eli makes it and it's a fluke of epic proportions...
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Old 10-15-2008, 06:13 PM    (permalink
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now come on, if any other QB makes that drive it's ZOMGZ best QB eva, total clutchz0rg.

But Eli makes it and it's a fluke of epic proportions...
Anyone but Tom Brady and it's a fluke.
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Old 10-15-2008, 06:14 PM    (permalink
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Anyone but Tom Brady and it's a fluke.
right, Tom Brady is the ONLY QB who can drive his team down in the Super Bowl in the final 2 minutes to win it?
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Old 10-15-2008, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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right, Tom Brady is the ONLY QB who can drive his team down in the Super Bowl in the final 2 minutes to win it?
When anyone else does it consistently, I will give them some leeway. Until then, FLUKE.
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Old 10-15-2008, 06:37 PM    (permalink
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When anyone else does it consistently, I will give them some leeway. Until then, FLUKE.
I know. Eli Manning != Joe Montana.

Eli has a great crutch. And that is a stingy NY defense and a good running game.
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Old 10-15-2008, 06:38 PM    (permalink
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E-lie is gr8 in tha clinch.
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Old 10-15-2008, 06:38 PM    (permalink
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I know. Eli Manning != Joe Montana.

Eli has a great crutch. And that is a stingy NY defense and a good running game.
I brought that up the last time i argued about Eli and the Giants homers flocked together to say that Eli is the reason for the great running game. LOL
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Old 10-15-2008, 06:55 PM    (permalink
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I brought that up the last time i argued about Eli and the Giants homers flocked together to say that Eli is the reason for the great running game. LOL
Sweet god. If that was true, the total dynamics of the NFL will change.

Tavaris Jackson made All Day Sooooooo good!
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Old 10-15-2008, 06:57 PM    (permalink
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Sweet god. If that was true, the total dynamics of the NFL will change.
For sure. Who needs an offensive line?! Draft an Eli Manning and wave good-bye to all your running game woes!
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:21 PM    (permalink
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Carson is in just as much of a bad situation as Tim Couch and he isn't buckling under the pressure. I mean look at what he deals with. It's downright horrid. At least the Browns were having high draft picks to get Couch some help. The Bengals have taken 2 CB's, 2 LB's and a busted RB in their last 4 first round draft picks. Not a single player to help Carson and the the one moron that should have his back no matter is a complete clown and is more worried about his changing of his name then making his chemstry with Carson the most important thing.
Dont even compare Carson and Couch's situations. Carson has had a good O for most of his career (except this year) and unlike Couch wasnt rushed into a bad situation. His team has suffered more because of a bad defense

Couch just had a bad everything and those early draft picks didnt help Couch much (Courtney Brown, Gerrard Warren, William Green) and a coaching change wasnt too great either, although Butch did take them to the playoffs.

Back on topic, Eli Manning is like Joe Namath to me, except Namath is cooler. Poor stats, but does have a ring.
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:28 PM    (permalink
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That 33.8 rating was against the Vikings when he threw all those INT's. He had a 100.7 rating against the Lions.
Good catch there. You are correct. It was the Vikings, who were 32nd against the pass in ypg, and 22nd in QB rating. Still a really bad pass defense.
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He was protecting his self
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From what? His leg?
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That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:33 PM    (permalink
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Quit trying to rationalize that TD drive. Eli took his team down the field and scored a TD in the most pressure packed situation possible in pro sports. It wasn't a fluke...with the possible exception of the Helmet Catch (which was still an incredible play by Eli, btw). It is consistent with Eli's ability to produce in pressure situations all throughout his career. Doesn't anyone remember his game winning drive against the Broncos in 2005, the year they went 12-4 and went to the AFC championship game? Eli beat them in the last minute with a TD pass to win the game, even though the Broncos had an awesome defense and were by far the better team. You can't take that away from him.
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That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:35 PM    (permalink
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It wasn't a fluke...with the possible exception of the Helmet Catch
That was the flukiest part about it! and the fact that E-Lie made a good play also contributes to the flukiness!
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by DMWSackMachine View Post
Quit trying to rationalize that TD drive. Eli took his team down the field and scored a TD in the most pressure packed situation possible in pro sports. It wasn't a fluke...with the possible exception of the Helmet Catch (which was still an incredible play by Eli, btw). It is consistent with Eli's ability to produce in pressure situations all throughout his career. Doesn't anyone remember his game winning drive against the Broncos in 2005, the year they went 12-4 and went to the AFC championship game? Eli beat them in the last minute with a TD pass to win the game, even though the Broncos had an awesome defense and were by far the better team. You can't take that away from him.
There are numerous Eli comebacks that us as Giants fans can point too. No one wants to give him credit for them and then he proved in the most pressure packed situation of all. There are just haters and they are going to be that no matter what. Of course Eli has a very good team around him but what Super Bowl winner hasn't. They are in the Super Bowl for a reason because they were a good enough "team" to make the playoffs. Eli steps up when the Giants need it most and there are plenty of examples that we can point too for that.
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:06 PM    (permalink
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DMW, are you ******* serious? Eli single handedly lost the Giants the Monday night game? god forbid the defense stop the run, or Braylon Edwards or get a pass rush.

and it's the ******* new york media, every big name players name has been mentioned in getting the axe, it's how it ******* goes.

why don't you go suck on the cowboys greatest secondary ever?
Get real, scotty. No one can stop Braylon Edwards besides Braylon Edwards and Derek Anderson.
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:08 PM    (permalink
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Get real, scotty. No one can stop Braylon Edwards besides Braylon Edwards and Derek Anderson.
this much is true, dude's a total freak.
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:08 PM    (permalink
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That was the flukiest part about it! and the fact that E-Lie made a good play also contributes to the flukiness!
I think the flukiest part was when he beat the Bucs.
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