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Old 10-16-2008, 04:35 PM    (permalink
yourfavestoner
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Originally Posted by Bruce Banner View Post
Because laws say so. Too bad.
Any that's the only thing separating them. Legality. If you look at them on a moral scope, the two acts really have no difference. It's the murder of a defenseless animal for entertainment.

Look at this way: tobacco products are completely legal in the US. Is a cigarette "better" simply because it's legal? Absolutely not.
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Old 10-16-2008, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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Shh.. I knew it was the whale. I tried to stretch it a little bit so someone might get it.

That running gag was A+.

That girl is SIXTEEN.
She was fifteen!
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Old 10-16-2008, 04:59 PM    (permalink
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Whats going to be better AFL or UFL
The AFL had a GREAT idea with the teams getting their regions players rights out of college (Alabama gets rights to Bama players, Arkansas to Arkansas players, etc) along with the regular draft. That was awesome.

But as far as talent, it will come down to which league has more financial backing.
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Old 10-16-2008, 08:03 PM    (permalink
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Each team is supposed to have like a 30 million dollar salary cap. Each owner will be required to spend 50 million up front with the rest of the price being covered by the league. Each team is also rumored to be going public so you or I could by stock in the teams.
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Old 10-16-2008, 08:06 PM    (permalink
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Each team is supposed to have like a 30 million dollar salary cap. Each owner will be required to spend 50 million up front with the rest of the price being covered by the league. Each team is also rumored to be going public so you or I could by stock in the teams.
How would that work?

Could i by the majority shares of a team?
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Old 10-16-2008, 08:08 PM    (permalink
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Each team is supposed to have like a 30 million dollar salary cap. Each owner will be required to spend 50 million up front with the rest of the price being covered by the league. Each team is also rumored to be going public so you or I could by stock in the teams.
30 mil cap isn't bad at all. This may just work. Friday games though? No. I say play in the NFL offseason on Sundays, just like the American Football League.
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Old 10-16-2008, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by I am the beast View Post
Nice bro-logic.

Don't impose YOUR morals on others. Personally, I could care less that Vick killed some dogs, just like I don't care that the meat I eat everyday is slaughtered in an inhumane manner.

Vick is a great player and he's already left a lasting legacy on the league. Call him a scumbag all you want but it doesn't change the fact that he was special with a football in his hand.

Of course, you're the type who (like yourfavestoner said) probably thinks Brett Favre is a stand-up human being despite being an animal-murderer and drug-abuser. But hey, he's white and fits more neatly into your web of social stigmas so I can hardly be surprised.
Nice try but not good enough to sway me. First, I never defended Favre, 2nd to try and use the race card is insane and it shows that you really have no tread for your argument. In fact you making the assumption that I don't like black QB's are quite disgraceful and will force me to ignore you for the rest of my time here. Lastly, to try and compare hunting, which by the way I don't like, to drowning dogs with your bare hands, rapping them in a "rap stand", forcing runts of the liter to be sacrificial “lambs” for so called worthy gladiators, leaving the animals' untreated wounds to become infected, beating the animal if he/she should not want to fight, abusing the animal for long periods of time to make the animal meaner, penning up the dog with others in cages with more than 80% of the cage filled with feces, bringing in lesser and more docile dogs for the trainer to train the fighter on how to kill, and I can go on, to the equivalent to slaughter houses, hunting, and other forms of animal consumption just makes you come out of this argument as ignorant as there can be. There is no comparison, but you keep going though life thinking that.

If this is someone you want to defend be my guest, but you will now be completely and utterly irrelevent to me on this site. I would appreciate you never posting in one of my threads and never responding to one of my posts. I will make sure I never post in any of your threads not to mention comment or quote one of your posts.
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Old 10-16-2008, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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Nice try but not good enough to sway me. First, I never defended Favre, 2nd to try and use the race card is insane and it shows that you really have no tread for your argument. In fact you making the assumption that I don't like black QB's are quite disgraceful and will force me to ignore you for the rest of my time here. Lastly, to try and compare hunting, which by the way I don't like, to drowning dogs with your bare hands, rapping them in a "rap stand", forcing runts of the liter to be sacrificial “lambs” for so called worthy gladiators, leaving the animals' untreated wounds to become infected, beating the animal if he/she should not want to fight, abusing the animal for long periods of time to make the animal meaner, penning up the dog with others in cages with more than 80% of the cage filled with feces, bringing in lesser and more docile dogs for the trainer to train the fighter on how to kill, and I can go on, to the equivalent to slaughter houses, hunting, and other forms of animal consumption just makes you come out of this argument as ignorant as there can be. There is no comparison, but you keep going though life thinking that.

If this is someone you want to defend be my guest, but you will now be completely and utterly irrelevent to me on this site. I would appreciate you never posting in one of my threads and never responding to one of my posts. I will make sure I never post in any of your threads not to mention comment or quote one of your posts.
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Old 10-16-2008, 08:38 PM    (permalink
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30 mil cap isn't bad at all. This may just work. Friday games though? No. I say play in the NFL offseason on Sundays, just like the American Football League.
The problem with playing in the offseason is that people may not be interested in football in the spring and summer. It's primarily baseball season. Plus you might have an issue with heat playing in cities like Las Vegas in May.
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Old 10-16-2008, 08:40 PM    (permalink
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That's true. But to play on Friday sounds like it would be difficult to attract viewers.
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Old 10-16-2008, 08:43 PM    (permalink
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That's true. But to play on Friday sounds like it would be difficult to attract viewers.
As long as tickets are affordable they could do a killing in attendance. Take a date out to dinner and a football game on Friday nights.
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Old 10-16-2008, 08:55 PM    (permalink
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Other than the friday night games they need some way to distinguish themselves. Any ideas?
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Old 10-16-2008, 08:57 PM    (permalink
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As long as tickets are affordable they could do a killing in attendance. Take a date out to dinner and a football game on Friday nights.
I think having games while high school games are going on is really dumb
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Old 10-16-2008, 09:49 PM    (permalink
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I think having games while high school games are going on is really dumb
maybe if your a student in HS or have kids that go to HS. A state team vs a whole lot of town teams and multiple city HS. Its easier for a fan to cheer for a state team. And they would also have more competition if they choose to play on Sat with all the college teams playing. They could have picked mid week but to many TV shows on to compete with.
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Old 10-16-2008, 09:50 PM    (permalink
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Other than the friday night games they need some way to distinguish themselves. Any ideas?
They don't need to be gimmicky like the XFL. Just offering quality football in markets that the NFL is not currently in is enough
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Old 10-16-2008, 10:14 PM    (permalink
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I think having games while high school games are going on is really dumb
So is making it on Sundays and Saturdays when there's NFL and NCAA... unless its during their offseason, which I somehow doubt.
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Old 10-16-2008, 10:19 PM    (permalink
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Any that's the only thing separating them. Legality. If you look at them on a moral scope, the two acts really have no difference. It's the murder of a defenseless animal for entertainment.

Look at this way: tobacco products are completely legal in the US. Is a cigarette "better" simply because it's legal? Absolutely not.
I would say the fundamental legal differences between the two is that hunting is monitored by the government and helps curb natural animal overpopulation, and that hunters strive for a clean kill, while dog fighting strives for maximum violence. A hollowpoint round through the major organs is a much quicker, and less painful death than being ripped apart by a pitbulls fangs.

Furthermore, I think that the fundamental moral difference is thefact that an animal being hunted can escape. Dog fighting present the same overall chance of survival as a boxed hunt, they're going to die, it's just a matter of when. I think that fundamental difference is important. I abhor boxed hunts and dog fights for the same reason.
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Old 10-16-2008, 10:25 PM    (permalink
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I would say the fundamental legal differences between the two is that hunting is monitored by the government and helps curb natural animal overpopulation, and that hunters strive for a clean kill, while dog fighting strives for maximum violence. A hollowpoint round through the major organs is a much quicker, and less painful death than being ripped apart by a pitbulls fangs.

Furthermore, I think that the fundamental moral difference is thefact that an animal being hunted can escape. Dog fighting present the same overall chance of survival as a boxed hunt, they're going to die, it's just a matter of when. I think that fundamental difference is important. I abhor boxed hunts and dog fights for the same reason.
Do you eat meat?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FH8AQzk4HM

I guess since it's not YOU who's doing the dirty work it's OK though.
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Old 10-16-2008, 10:58 PM    (permalink
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Do you eat meat?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FH8AQzk4HM

I guess since it's not YOU who's doing the dirty work it's OK though.
Funny you should mention that. When I lived in the wiregrass, I worked in the ConAgra broiler processing plant in Enterprise. I still eat chicken. That video you put together missed some of the more stomache churning parts of the plant.

But anyways, trying to justify dog fighting by making it comperable to food is laughable. Humans are omnivores. We need to eat both meat and plant life to sustain a healthy life. Just as a diet of exclusively meat will eventually cause significant health side effects due to Vitamin C defficiency, so will a diet completely excluding meat lead to serious health complications due to Vitamin B12 defficiency. Eating meat is needed for a healthy life. It's behavior seen throughout the animal kingdom. Dog fighting, however, has no such parallel. I guess you could say that it's one of those things that seperate us from the rest of the animal kingdom.
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Old 10-16-2008, 11:08 PM    (permalink
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Don't bother Dragon.

Take the high road!
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Old 10-17-2008, 12:45 AM    (permalink
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Not trying to take the fun out of your debate but, morals are subjective guys.

There are many moral debates in our world now that any two people could argue to the teeth (The death penalty, torture, abortion etc.) and in the end both sides would be back to square one without even the slightest change in opinion.

However with dog fighting I think you would have a hard time arguing with a rational human being that dog fighting is a good thing. It's not like dog fighting has any monetary value and I believe that America has plenty of entertainment outlets that we could afford to miss out on this one. Meanwhile animal cruelty is unjust and holds no warrant whatsoever.

Also, when we talk about hunting are we speaking of a traditional sense where someone would use all or most of the parts of an animal body for needs or are we speaking in a more modern sense like its a sport?

Either way I think both are better than dog fighting on a moral stand point, but hunting for sport is still wrong in my opinion.
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Old 10-17-2008, 01:04 AM    (permalink
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Not trying to take the fun out of your debate but, morals are subjective guys.

There are many moral debates in our world now that any two people could argue to the teeth (The death penalty, torture, abortion etc.) and in the end both sides would be back to square one without even the slightest change in opinion.

However with dog fighting I think you would have a hard time arguing with a rational human being that dog fighting is a good thing. It's not like dog fighting has any monetary value and I believe that America has plenty of entertainment outlets that we could afford to miss out on this one. Meanwhile animal cruelty is unjust and holds no warrant whatsoever.

Also, when we talk about hunting are we speaking of a traditional sense where someone would use all or most of the parts of an animal body for needs or are we speaking in a more modern sense like its a sport?

Either way I think both are better than dog fighting on a moral stand point, but hunting for sport is still wrong in my opinion.
This isn't about dog fighting or morals' its about Vick playing, The UFL and The AFL
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Old 10-17-2008, 01:48 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhaarat316 View Post
This isn't about dog fighting or morals' its about Vick playing, The UFL and The AFL
Good point. In that regard, I'm excited to watch Vick play despite it being against a league that will more than likely be a lot less talented.

I hope the UFL succeeds because I feel like it could be a solid stepping stone for less talented players to bring their game to the next level.
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:00 AM    (permalink
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Yup. Good arguments though. Actually made the board interesting for a couple days.
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Old 10-17-2008, 05:14 AM    (permalink
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UFL and AFL, while sounding exciting will end up being like all the other NFL duplicates (USFL, Arena, WLAF); not as good as the NFL.
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