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Old 10-28-2008, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Turtlepower View Post
I was pissed during Manning's rookie season when Warner was benched for Manning when we still had a shot for the playoffs. I still think to this day that Manning would have developed faster if he sat out that first season.
Why? Players were losing faith in Warner. I still remember reading articles on how the OL was pissed he was holding the ball for so long. Statistically Warner is a stud, and will always be one but outside of that, it was a mess that year as the games went on.

We didn't have the OL we had now, but we were not bad by any stretch, yet Warner got sacked 39 times in 9 games!!!! He also had 12 fumbles too. At that point TC thought just start the kid and let him take his lumps and grow from there.

Manning would have developed faster with Gilbride as the QB coach, and idiot John Hufangel as our OC. There is a reason why we fired both Huffy and Tim Lewis who were the original guys brought in with TC. In fact Ralph V's book has a chapter on Huffy and how the players disliked him.
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Old 10-28-2008, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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Why? Players were losing faith in Warner. I still remember reading articles on how the OL was pissed he was holding the ball for so long. Statistically Warner is a stud, and will always be one but outside of that, it was a mess that year as the games went on.

We didn't have the OL we had now, but we were not bad by any stretch, yet Warner got sacked 39 times in 9 games!!!! He also had 12 fumbles too. At that point TC thought just start the kid and let him take his lumps and grow from there.

Manning would have developed faster with Gilbride as the QB coach, and idiot John Hufangel as our OC. There is a reason why we fired both Huffy and Tim Lewis who were the original guys brought in with TC. In fact Ralph V's book has a chapter on Huffy and how the players disliked him.
I didn't know that players were actually losing confidence in Warner, that's interesting. But I agree that if you are going to bring in a young QB, the last thing to do is change OCs on him. I wish we still had Sean Peyton as our OC, I loved what he brought to the team and how he actually used Shockey, unlike Gilbride.
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I don't have to watch it to know it was not interesting.
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Old 10-28-2008, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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I didn't know that players were actually losing confidence in Warner, that's interesting. But I agree that if you are going to bring in a young QB, the last thing to do is change OCs on him. I wish we still had Sean Peyton as our OC, I loved what he brought to the team and how he actually used Shockey, unlike Gilbride.
I do, it was reported by the beat writers that week. I remember it because I was thinking how long can these linemen stick to their men and Warner still not get rid of the ball. The OL must have been pissed working so hard and still the QB getting sacked and fumbling on top of that.

We took a OC with 11 years experience and made him a QB coach, while we took a QB coach with no OC experience and made him an OC. That's pretty much the dumbest thing I see in terms of hiring and I knew it would be a mess. I also knew Lewis would suck, because I followed his career in Pitt. My cousins live in the Burgh and are Steeler fans and when we had a press release for the coaches they laughed at the Gilbride and Lewis hiring mainly at Lewis though. It's not a suprise that he got fired.
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Old 10-28-2008, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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I want to know how Tampa only scored nine points.
They have no offense, I repeat, they have no offense. They are a pitiful offensive team. If it weren't for their defense they'd go 0fer. Lucky for them their defense is stout. Well, not lucky, that's how they were built, but their offense is the reason this team will not be in the playoffs.
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Old 10-28-2008, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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I'm curious to hear some unbiased thoughts on the Falcons...

i.e. people who aren't our opponents who think their team is the best team ever *cough* you know who you are. Or people outside the NFC South division who can give a truly INFORMED unbiased view.
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Old 10-28-2008, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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ill get back to this.
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Old 10-28-2008, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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Even though i like Mike Singletary banishing Vernon Davis to the locker room and all, i'm still severely disappointed that the 49ers weren't even remotely competitive on sunday. How do you lose by 21, at home, to a 3rd string QB, and let a FB catch 2 40+ yard TD passes? It was a completely flat performance. Doesn't bode well for Singletary, but ill give him some more time before i completely give up on him..
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Old 10-28-2008, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by iloxygenil View Post
I'm curious to hear some unbiased thoughts on the Falcons...

i.e. people who aren't our opponents who think their team is the best team ever *cough* you know who you are. Or people outside the NFC South division who can give a truly INFORMED unbiased view.
I hated Vick, and so to see a good pick in Ryan start to show potential makes me happy for your franchise. You guys have been through alot. I think you guys had good management moves, and if you can hit in free agency and in 2-3 drafts you guys have a strong foundation to build upon.
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Old 10-28-2008, 02:42 PM    (permalink
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That oline gets a bad wrap bc of Ben. They are great at run blocking, and theyre decent in pass protection as well. Ben does a terrible job holding the ball way too long, and he does little if anything to adjust his pass protection presnap. A lot of their woes falls on Ben's shoulders. Even Tomlin says so.

I think the playcalling is terrible. The Steelers need to go back to running the rock like hell, and having Ben manage the game. Thats when theyre at their best. All this spread nonsense, with Ben chucking it deep every other play, its not what they are. They are a smashmouth team, they need to go back to their roots. Cowher would easily have this team in the SB.

If anything holds them back, I feel its their offensive playcalling. Its poor. And Ben's gotta do a better job reading defenses and hitting his hot routes. And adjusting his protection.

If the chargers can just get their act together and squeeze into the playoffs, they could be this year's Giants team. They have the talent, and the conference is really weak, and so is their division. Theyre letting a great opportunity slip right out of their hands.

Here's the Biggest issue of the Steelers offense.

1) The Coaching. The OL Coach doesn't have these guys on the same page (Proof? Watch Kendall Simmons in the Philly game. Omar Gaither ran free through the C/RG Gap ever time he tried.) That has been shored up a bit by Simmons being out and Darnell Stapleton playing, but, alas Stapleton isn't a primetime guard and is likely our future center. He's very solid at C, Guard he's a warm body that doesn't mess up his assignments.

2) The play calling. Arians didn't have Hot Reads until after the Philly Game. He didn't utilize 3 step drops until the Jacksonville game. This is a guy who said "Whats a 3-step drop?" In pre-season. He's trying to run an offense that few teams could utilize. That being the Titans, Browns and Giants. He then implemented 3 step drops and lots of deep routes. He's trying to force this team into his scheme implementations instead of scheming around the players. Holmes should be running more quick slants. Ward more crosses and outs. I don't care if we have to run the 2001 Patriots offense... the Nickel and Dime, this team has Superbowl talent, especially in a year where the Jags, Pats, Colts aren't dominating, The Titans are relying on the Rush and a solid Vet QB, and the Bills are relying on the arm of a 2nd year QB. If there was ever a year for the Steelers to go after the superbowl, it's this year.

Arians also insists on 2 very ******** formations. The Close Bunch (1 TE, 3 WR Close on 1 side) which, just begs the defense to blitz... and the 3 TE which he tries to pass out of every so often. He's a great route designer and play designer, but his game day coaching is pathetic.

3) Big Ben ~ Ben likes Splash plays. 50 yard passes to Nate Washington. And he's good with them, the problem is, once he gets one, he just chucks everything long. Resulting in 1 of 2 things. A) A huge play or B) 3rd and 18 in our side of the field. If Ben would utilize the Short passing game and run game to open up the Deep Ball, He could hit it every time because as far as I've seen, when he sets it up, he's one of the most accurate Deep Ball throwers in the league. If and a big if, we can get Ben to let the run game open the short passing lanes, it won't hurt to take a shot or 2 near the half. This offense is supposed to be built off the Play action. You can't run a play action if the team feels no threat of you running the ball.
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Old 10-28-2008, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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I can understand why you aren't impressed with the Skins because they haven't won a single game this year by more than a TD. The thing though is because they play to the level of their competition. If they play the Lions they will play to that competition, but if they are playing the Titans they would play up to their level. There have just been minor mistakes preventing us from blowing out some teams. I know that could of should of has no place in football, but honestly we could have scored 40 on the Lions if it weren't for little mistakes which are easily correctable. We moved the ball into their territory every single drive but dumb penalties and such prevented us from converting. To be honest I think the Skins are a team that will be overlooked if we make the playoffs but we could make some noise. We have the best back in the league, a QB who doesn't throw INT's, and a veteran offensive line. Defensively we are solid at every single asset aside from pass rush. Honestly I am glad Jason Taylor is probably out, we are better with Demetric Evans. I'm no homer, I am willing to say I wouldn't have even given a 5th rounder for him, but the past is the past. With Santana Moss returning punts in the playoffs we will be a dangerous team. One thing you won't be able to say with us, is that we haven't been in close games. Because every single game other than the Giants 16-7 loss, has been close. That will play pivotal when in the playoffs. One thing you can say about the Skins is that honestly there isn't a single bad starter on the team other than Jason Taylor, most teams can't say that. Just a quick run down but at QB Jason Campbell is one of the most efficient QB's in the league, Mike Sellers is a top 5 FB, Clinton Portis is a top 5 RB, Chris Cooley is a top 5 TE, Santana Moss is one of the top 10 most explosive receivers in the league when in open space while Randle El is more than solid as a receiver. Chris Samuels is a perennial pro bowler at tackle and Jon Jansen at the other tackle spot is still solid with Heyer ready to claim his spot back, Randy Thomas is one of the better guards in the league when motivated and Pete Kendall at the other guard spot is still above average. Casey Rabach at C is a staple in this offense. Rarely makes mistakes. That was the entire offense and the only spots with "bad starters" you could say is Randle El as a 2 but he is still better than many many starters in this league. On defense the 3 headed monster of Cornelius Griffin/Kedric Golston/Anthony Montogmery is probably one of the more underrated units in the NFL. All 3 stop the run and provide some pass pressure. Andre Carter at DE is one of the better all around DE's, not elite but well above average. Jason Taylor is a bum and Demetric Evans is much better. He is better against the run, and honestly because of his hand usage and technique is not that far back as a pass rusher. I'll give Taylor the credit for getting his hands up to bat down passes, but he is crud against the run, and doesn't get within 10 feet of the QB 85% of the time. Our linebacking crew has no bad starters. London Fletcher is still an absolute beast, Rocky McIntosh is quietly performing at a pro bowl level although he won't get recognition. It's very rare to find a player from the U who is so quiet and timid and never speaks to the media. The guy lets his play do all the talking for him though. Marcus Washington would be the weak link his this core but we have been so much better since he's been hurt. HB Blades is an absolute gamer and should be starting over Washington. At corner Carlos Rogers is absolutely shocking me. He won't make the pro bowl because of his rock hands, but he is one of the top 10 shut down corners in the league. He has shut down almost every receiver he has face and the list includes the likes of TO, Braylon Edwards, Anquan Boldin, Torry Holt, and Calvin Johnson. He is one of the most physical corners in the league with great cover skills. If he only had hands we'd be drooling over him. At the other side Shawn Springs was playing like a Springs of 7 years ago, but injuries slowed him down and it's unclear when he will be back. Smoot is solid. Not spectacular but solid. Somewhere between absolutely stinking it up in Minnesota he has learned to tackle. Shocks me because his first time round he was an awful tackler, but now rarely misses tackles and is solid in coverage granted he's not covering an overly physical wideout. The safeties are arguably the strength of the defense. Again LaRon Landry will not make the pro bowl because he doesnít have flashy stats, but you can argue he is the best safety in the entire league. He plays one man deep coverage and shuts down the long pass for the entire field. I havenít seen a safety cover the entire field like him in a long time. Oh and when he has extra time he decides to be a menace against the run and blitzing the QB from 15 yards back. Because of his range he allows Chris Horton to thrive. Itís weird to say but Horton a 7th round rookie who was 3 picks away from being undrafted, has a better shot than Landry to make the pro bowl. Horton because of Landry is allowed to play an in box ball hawk. He roams around and makes plays. He is honestly in on 75% of the tackles made on the defensive side of the ball. His range is above average as he runs like a corner and tackles like a backer. He would not be this good in other systems, but LaRon Landryís covers all of Hortonís weaknesses and allows Horton to utilize all of his strengths. Rookie safeties donít usually make a huge impact on our D. It is why they were reluctant to replace Reed Doughty with Horton. It is because our safeties need to align the defense. That is why a guy like Ryan Clark was the best thing that happened to Sean Taylor prior to getting Landry. With Landryís growth and maturity from a ball hawk to a fundamentally sound safety, Horton can now play full time and make a bunch of plays. Quick note on special teams Rock Cartwright is a top 15 kick off returner. Suisam is one of the better kickers we have had the past few decades, and Ryan Plack is alright and after having Durant Brooks he is a breath of fresh air. Our biggest issue is the PR Randle El is easily the worst punt returner in the NFL. If he isnít going backwards he is going sideways. If he gets a 5 yard return I am happy and smiling. Santana Moss could be one of the best PRís in the league but it is too much of a liability to have him back there full time because of his importance to the offense. But like against the Lions in situations when we need a big return, he will be back there. So really while the Skins may not look that impressive because of how they win games, the point is they win games and have very few weaknesses on the entire roster. This is a team built to win right now.
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Old 10-28-2008, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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Old 10-28-2008, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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That was a brutal wall of text.
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Old 10-28-2008, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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Jason Taylor is not a bum. He has been playing with the calf injury which is why he is having a down year and he was traded in July so he didn't have enough time to fully pick pick up the scheme. Taylor is a stud he just hasn't had the chance to show it because of injuries.
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Old 10-28-2008, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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Jason Taylor is not a bum. He has been playing with the calf injury which is why he is having a down year and he was traded in July so he didn't have enough time to fully pick pick up the scheme. Taylor is a stud he just hasn't had the chance to show it because of injuries.
He was playing at an incredibly low level prior to injuring his calf. He is just unable to handle RT's that's the deal. Even if 100% healthy he would still be a huge liability against the run.
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Old 10-28-2008, 03:39 PM    (permalink
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I still think JT is a hell of a football player. He was pretty good in Miami in his last year and of course the year before the that the was DPOY. I think this year is a mulligan and he will come on strong next year.
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Old 10-28-2008, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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Well, looks like I got my wish and Cottrell is gone. Now is Rivera the right person to run this defense now? Does he have enough experience to run a 3-4?

Bear fans, how is as a DC in general with the 4-3?
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Old 10-28-2008, 04:31 PM    (permalink
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Jason taylor is an absolute bum he is one of the worst DE's in the leauge if not the worst against the run and has barely pressured the QB, Laron Landry is one of the best safeties in the leauge but he still isnt Ed Reed at least not yet, and i cant believe how well Carlos Rogers is playing he was never a burner and after that horrible knee injury i thought he was pretty much finished as a corner.
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Old 10-28-2008, 06:41 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Yeah, your DC is a joke. Man i used to feel your pain so bad. It feels so good these days knowing that Spagnuolo is gonna put together a great gameplan every week. I used to have to live with the dark ages of Tim Lewis, who basically played prevent defense for 4 quarters.

Cottrell is bad, but Lewis was epically bad. Arguably the worst DC i ever seen.
Tim Lewis is a bad DC but he's been brilliant as a secondary coach. Godfrey is progressing fast, Gamble is playing like a probowler and up until the Arizona game no team was able to pass well against our secondary. Not many teams have two elite receivers and a QB with a hot hand either.



I think the Superbowl contender from the AFC will come down to coaching experience, and for that reason I think it'll be Tennessee. I like the Steelers team and I think they're a strong unit, but right now they need health and I really don't think their offensive line as a pass blocking unit is good enough. I like Buffalo NEXT year when their receivers and QB are a little older and they get another couple of pieces to the puzzle.

I'm not going to comment on the NFC but there are for damn sure going to be some brilliant games when TB and Carolina face off with the NFC East.

IMO The playoffs will end up *Carolina, *Tampa, *New York, *Washington, Green bay and Arizona.

*In no particular order
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Old 10-28-2008, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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I want to know how Tampa only scored nine points.
Because Jeff Garcia stinks.
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Old 10-28-2008, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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Garcia may suck but how about some defensive credit? Guys may of played the game of the year on that side of the ball and maybe we don't see everyone playing up to that level again but let's just not dismiss the notion that the D was the reason they scored 9 points.


We have 2 rookie corners out there with Alan Ball as the nickel corner, so it's not like we had our top 3 corners, our rookies came to play, Wade drew up a great scheme and responded to the pressure on his ***, and guys played like that was a 'must-win' game...It wasn't all due to Garcia's suckiness, our QB was alot worse and we still managed more then 9 pts.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 10-28-2008, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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Im excited for a Steelers Titans matchup. Hopefully the Steelers will be healthy by then and the Titans won't have anything wrapped up so they have to play.

Could definately be a AFC Championship preview.
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Old 10-29-2008, 01:23 AM    (permalink
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Excellent thoughts as usual; I've never disagreed that Merriman is one of the very best talents in the NFL. His presence has been sorely missed.

Cottrell fired...and it's not even my birthday. Not to mention Denver being without Champ. 3-5 with the division door not even close to shut? Welcome to the AFC West.

Also I have to give the nod to the Titans D over the Steelers. Haynesworth and Vanden Bosch give them true dominance.
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Old 10-29-2008, 03:00 AM    (permalink
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Excellent thoughts as usual; I've never disagreed that Merriman is one of the very best talents in the NFL. His presence has been sorely missed.

Cottrell fired...and it's not even my birthday. Not to mention Denver being without Champ. 3-5 with the division door not even close to shut? Welcome to the AFC West.

Also I have to give the nod to the Titans D over the Steelers. Haynesworth and Vanden Bosch give them true dominance.
The AFC West is definitely there for the taking for San Diego as long as Rivera can make your defense play any where near its potential especially with LT getting back to near his usual.
Speaking of the Titans does anyone else think that Haynesworth gets subbed on far too many plays. Yeah he's the most dominating defensive player in the league but at one stage on Monday he was doubled over gasping for air during the Colts hurry up. I actually remember seeing him on the sidelines, sweat dripping, and the Colts called a timeout and I thought bad idea now you're letting him get back in there.
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Old 10-29-2008, 05:50 AM    (permalink
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Well until their young Dlineman, Jason Jones is my favorite, are ready to step up more they can't really afford to let that monster sit on the bench.
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Old 10-29-2008, 06:08 AM    (permalink
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Garcia may suck but how about some defensive credit? Guys may of played the game of the year on that side of the ball and maybe we don't see everyone playing up to that level again but let's just not dismiss the notion that the D was the reason they scored 9 points.


We have 2 rookie corners out there with Alan Ball as the nickel corner, so it's not like we had our top 3 corners, our rookies came to play, Wade drew up a great scheme and responded to the pressure on his ***, and guys played like that was a 'must-win' game...It wasn't all due to Garcia's suckiness, our QB was alot worse and we still managed more then 9 pts.
I watched the whole game and the Dallas D definitely stepped up. Tampa don't have the strongest offense in the NFL to begin with, but it isn't completely hopeless. Guys like Bradie James and Jay Ratliff played quality football and turned it into a big time defensive struggle.

Both teams played decent football and Dallas were the better side on the day.
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