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Old 01-09-2009, 04:19 PM    (permalink
Xonraider
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Sorry about that. Better make your throws count.
921 for the win!
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Old 01-09-2009, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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921 for the win!
Our coach put in a few shotgun formations, mostly for passing and options and Im trying to convince him to throw in that option/shovel pass that Florida uses.
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Old 01-09-2009, 04:32 PM    (permalink
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A few questions about people who are experts on the 3-4...

What are the specific differences between both ILB and both OLB's in a 3-4. ie., what determines which side they have, skill sets needed, etc.
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:02 AM    (permalink
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A few questions about people who are experts on the 3-4...

What are the specific differences between both ILB and both OLB's in a 3-4. ie., what determines which side they have, skill sets needed, etc.
They have to be smart and able to shed blocks.

ILB. Have to be able to read their keys and process information quickly because it's 3 DL vs 5 OL so 2 OL men are going to be blocking to the 2nd level. So you have to make sure your NT can eat up blockers, and your ILB have to be quick to read their keys, pass or run, and then read the backfield flow.

OLBs in a 3-4 are usually your 4-3 DEs. They are alot bigger have to play in space. So they have to athletic enough to cover TEs and guys from the backfield, and big enough so that when they blitz they can get by an OL player or RB. They have to be quick in processing run or pass, and then be the force player on a running play.

Football IQ is a must for all of these LBs, while size is wanted for the OLB. hat's why you normally see them as 4-3 DE. That's just general stuff without going into scheme stuff which usually differs from system to system.
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Old 01-10-2009, 08:13 AM    (permalink
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i think his question was more: whats the difference between the RILB and LILB as well as the LOLB and ROLB
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Old 01-10-2009, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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They have to be smart and able to shed blocks.

ILB. Have to be able to read their keys and process information quickly because it's 3 DL vs 5 OL so 2 OL men are going to be blocking to the 2nd level. So you have to make sure your NT can eat up blockers, and your ILB have to be quick to read their keys, pass or run, and then read the backfield flow.

OLBs in a 3-4 are usually your 4-3 DEs. They are alot bigger have to play in space. So they have to athletic enough to cover TEs and guys from the backfield, and big enough so that when they blitz they can get by an OL player or RB. They have to be quick in processing run or pass, and then be the force player on a running play.

Football IQ is a must for all of these LBs, while size is wanted for the OLB. hat's why you normally see them as 4-3 DE. That's just general stuff without going into scheme stuff which usually differs from system to system.
I think I was unclear...

1.) What exactly are the differences, if any, between BOTH of the two OLB's?

2.) What exactly are the differences, if any, between BOTH of the two ILB's?
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:56 AM    (permalink
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I think I was unclear...

1.) What exactly are the differences, if any, between BOTH of the two OLB's?

2.) What exactly are the differences, if any, between BOTH of the two ILB's?
O ok, my bad. That's normally a system thing. I am sure the keys are the same as I listed above, but the players skills set as individuals may come into play to define their role to get maximum skill utilization. For instance if you have Ware, Merriman or LT as an OLB you may just send them every time throughout the game, while the other OLB mixes it up more. This allows the great OLB to get more chances for sacks.

I would guess it's the same with the ILBs. I have Bill B's '97 Jets playbook, so I will look it up for his system, but normally that role would be defined by the individual's player's skill set. Clearly you're not going to have good pass rushers not rush and stick to stopping the run and cover if the guy can excel at sacking the QB.

My suggestion is tape or record today's Ravens and game, and tomorrow's Steelers game and watch their defense and focus on the players you are wondering about. Honestly that's the easiest way to learn.
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:59 AM    (permalink
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the LILB is called the MIKE backer pretty similar to the 4-3 MIKE backer except he aligns in a 2 tech to the TE side. the RILB, referred to as the MAC backer also aligns in a 2 tech except he is on the weak side away from the tight end. both play from A gap to B gap (inside out run). the MIKE tends to be a harder nosed attacker of the ball as hes playing a strong side like roll almost like an SLB whereas the MAC has to be like a WLB not overruning the play and being patient so as not to lose backside containment normally the smaller and quicker of the two. both players also must be able to blitz the QB and be able to drop into short zones.

the two OLB's are pretty much similar and they are known mainly as pass rushers. they have SAM and WILL and both tend to either 5 or 7 gap the OL. they each have very similar roles and 1 tends to always go after the QB at least. they arent relied as much on in coverage as the MIKE or MAC but being good in coverage always helps.

hope that helps you

mind you thats just basic overview im sure it changes from coordinater to coordinater scheme to scheme
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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since i can sense where this is going and ive had this thought in my head for awhile, how would u see the bears transforming into a 3-4? who do you think would line up where
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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since i can sense where this is going and ive had this thought in my head for awhile, how would u see the bears transforming into a 3-4? who do you think would line up where
the bears would suck in a 3-4. we wouldnt have a NT, we dont even have a capable one in the 4-3. Harris would be kinda a non factor at 3-4 DE trying to stop the run. Urlacher would die at ILB since he is horrible at shedding blocks.
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:44 PM    (permalink
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since i can sense where this is going and ive had this thought in my head for awhile, how would u see the bears transforming into a 3-4? who do you think would line up where
I don't know your roster or DC. It depends on the system what 3-4 fronts the bears want to show. I would say watch the pre season games and I am sure you guys will practice alot of the main fronts while keeping the stunting and blitz packages vanilla.

You need the right personnel to run a 3-4. Who would your 3-4 Lbs be? What about DEs and NT?
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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we dont have anyone really that would fit in a 3-4 front
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Old 01-10-2009, 03:06 PM    (permalink
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Idonije's best fit is probably DE in a 3-4. I'd say it'd look something like the following (with no changes to our roster):

DE: Idonije
NT: Adams
DT: Harrison (Harris doesn't fit anywhere in a 3-4)
WILL: Alex Brown (better fit then Ogunleye)
MAC: Urlacher
MIKE: Briggs
SAM: Anderson
CB: Graham
SS: Payne
FS: Tillman (would have to move here with m2m coverage)
CB: Bowman (this was tough, we don't have any good man guys at CB)

Now, if we switched to the 3-4 and made a bunch of offseason moves...

DE: Idonije (good fit here)
NT: Raji (1st rounder, real good fit at NT for any system)
DT: Harrison (Harris doesn't fit anywhere on the line in a 3-4)
WILL: Suggs (free agent signing, he's a beast)
MIKE: Briggs (better in run support then Urlacher, so he plays the strongside)
MAC: Urlacher (better in coverage then Briggs so he plays the weakside)
SAM: Anderson (maybe he wouldn't suck here)
CB: Graham (solid in m2m, IMO)
SS: Payne (not much of a change here)
FS: Tillman (needs to be moved here we witch schemes)
CB: Mickens (2nd round pick, good m2m guy)
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Old 01-10-2009, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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The main focus will be NT. If he is anywhere close to being bad, then your Brian U and Briggs will get owned like no ones business. Remember that off year where Ray lewis was whining because the NT couldn't get the blockers off of Ray ray, and then they drafted Ngata and it changed. But you guys better get the NT perfect.
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Old 01-10-2009, 05:37 PM    (permalink
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I remember hearing something a while ago about being able to get the coaches video of games... I was wondering, is there something like that out there or no?
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Old 01-10-2009, 05:53 PM    (permalink
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921 for the win!
We actually wont be using a numbering system for pass plays
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:00 PM    (permalink
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I remember hearing something a while ago about being able to get the coaches video of games... I was wondering, is there something like that out there or no?
Only NFL teams and NFL films have coaching tape.
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Old 01-13-2009, 11:32 AM    (permalink
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Wildcat Formation for people to refer to in the future.

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Old 01-13-2009, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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what exactly counts as Wildcat?
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Old 01-13-2009, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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what exactly counts as Wildcat?
It's basically a theory where the skill players gets the snap, giving the option to run or throw it. Usually a WR or someone will motion and allow the skill player an option to hand it off to the WR, let him go, and hand it off to the RB, or let him run, and run a different way, follow the RB who will block for him now, or gives him an option to throw it.

Don't get bogged down by the name of the formation. Just learn what it's trying to do from an Xs and Os point of view. That's why it's effective. Same with Urban Meyer's spread gun. It's effective because it takes adv. of the #s in terms of single high safety or 2 high safeties. From there they look who is near the LOS, and run a play accordingly.
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Old 01-13-2009, 11:59 AM    (permalink
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what exactly counts as Wildcat?
ItThere needs to be at least 3 options of either keeping the ball, handing the ball or, passing. There also has to have some form of motion.
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Old 01-13-2009, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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In the Chargers' 3-4, they used to have a thumper and a coverage backer as the ILBs (Godfrey and Donnie Edwards), with the thumper playing the run and blitzing in some packages and the coverage guy mopping up runs and obviously playing the pass.

Lately they have been employing two thumpers and playing a safety a little closer to the box as a way to shore up the soft middle. This experiment has failed because it gives too much responsibility to the 2nd safety, and both of ours are terrible. Stephen Cooper has tried to transform from thumper to coverage backer and done a decent job at it, but it's still not great.

The OLBs usually rush, already been pointed out in this thread. The Wade Phillips 3-4 was basically a 5-2 defense with both OLBs rushing constantly, but under Cottrell/Rivera one usually drops into coverage. Under both schemes, the defensive ends, run stuffers on the first two downs, are usually subbed for more pass-rush oriented players ie. Igor Olshansky for Jacque Cesaire or Marques Harris. Sometimes Shaun Phillips (or Merriman, sigh...) will put his hand on the ground and a backup OLB will rush from a 2 point stance.
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Old 01-13-2009, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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By the way, I love that Kansas City was using the Pistol for a good chunk of the 2008 season. It didn't do much good, but I've always liked that alignment.
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Old 01-13-2009, 07:18 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoidmoonduck View Post
By the way, I love that Kansas City was using the Pistol for a good chunk of the 2008 season. It didn't do much good, but I've always liked that alignment.
Thats probably because they have bad players, not because of the pistol
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Old 01-14-2009, 09:47 AM    (permalink
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I like the theory behind the Pistol Offense. Not sure if I'd make it a system, but if I'd created a system I would use some of the alignments in my offense. It's a good mix of 2 different systems.
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