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Old 11-09-2010, 08:40 PM    (permalink
gpngc
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We need to bring this thread back.

This is more of a general football philosophy question

I was just watching NFL Network, and Jason La Canfora made the point of how the Ravens offense was struggling with Cover 2 defenses because Flacco was not connecting on 15-20 yard routes behind the corners and in front of the safeties. He said Baltimore did a great job of adjusting to this by running a lot of screens and checkdowns to combat the amount of Cover 2 they were seeing.

My question is, what is the optimal gameplan for a team like Minnesota, who is struggling mightily with picking up man blitzes all season long? They have tried to screen teams, but it is sniffed out way more than they would like, so I don't think that would be an option at this point. How can they set themselves up to better defend the blitz? It seems like they are just blowing assignments (particularly Peterson, who has cost Favre at least 7-8 huge hits this year) all the time.
You can have the greatest gameplan in the world but it won't matter if you don't execute. That has been Minnesota's problem. Although I do also think they are waaaaay too predictable at times (there have been way too many times when I called stretch play or screen attempt and sure enough the defense had it pegged as well).

When it's a blitz with man coverage across the board you just need to win one-on-one battles.

The best way to do that would be to have Harvin learn how to adjust while being on the same page as Favre when he sees blitz and run quicker routes (quick slant, quick hitch, quick out).

And throwing to Peterson on the swing pass (or even an angle route) is something they don't do nearly enough.
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Old 11-09-2010, 08:47 PM    (permalink
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Peterson is never on the field on 3rd downs. Its always Gerhart or Kliensausage. Just for the fact that Peterson is so bad at pass protection. I like the quick slant idea, its just something Favre and Harvin have to workout. We are set up in max protect so much because of our terrible offensive line, it really limits our passing options.

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Old 11-09-2010, 08:53 PM    (permalink
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Peterson is never on the field on 3rd downs. Its always Gerhart or Kliensausage. Just for the fact that Peterson is so bad at pass protection. I like the quick slant idea, its just something Favre and Harvin have to workout. We are set up in max protect so much because of our terrible offensive line, it really limits are passing options.
I meant throw to Peterson on early downs.

I think a swing pass on 1st and 10 or even like 2nd and 4 would be something a linebacker, thinking he needs to hit the hole and meet Peterson by being the aggressor vertically, would really struggle with. Peterson on the edge is scary.
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Old 11-09-2010, 08:57 PM    (permalink
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I meant throw to Peterson on early downs.

I think a swing pass on 1st and 10 or even like 2nd and 4 would be something a linebacker, thinking he needs to hit the hole and meet Peterson by being the aggressor vertically, would really struggle with. Peterson on the edge is scary.
ah, gotcha

And its not a bad idea either, because a lot of times we do this with Harvin in the same situations and its usually effective.
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Old 11-09-2010, 09:07 PM    (permalink
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i have a question about zone D coverages. This is coming from a guy who never played football in my life (**** you genetics)


It seems like the Ravens are playing tampa 2 zone with the CBs back pedaling. The WR does a curl route and the CB just stands there lets them catch and make a tackle. I figure if he charges the WR on the curl the WR will just break of the route and go deep for a big gain. But the CB gets crucified on various forums because of it.

So can you guys tell me the basic plan for a CB in a zone D (sorry if that explanation doesnt make sense)
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Old 11-09-2010, 09:09 PM    (permalink
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You can have the greatest gameplan in the world but it won't matter if you don't execute.

When it's a blitz with man coverage across the board you just need to win one-on-one battles.
This.

If you have cover zero there has to be a matchup you can consisently exploit if you have any hope of getting the defense to soften up. I know this question was specifically about beating combatting zero blitzes, but it's really the same concept with teams that want to run the ball but always see 8 or 9 man fronts. It's the defenses way of standing toe to toe saying, 'we don't think you can win the matchup on the edge' and until you do, you're allowing them to dictate the terms of the game.

Minnesota specifically would benefit a great deal if Bernard Berrian could come through with some cover zero beaters. I disagree with a previous poster who suggested double moves - there really isn't enough time if you are struggling in pass pro to execute a double move. Berrian getting vertical and cashing in on a long gain, or Harvin taking a quick slant ( as was suggested earlier) are the types of things that would make a DC think twice about sitting in zero and sending pressure leaving no backend help.

Personnel groupings can really benefit the offense as well. For instance, Shiancoe, Kleinsasser, Harvin, Berrian, AP suggests a run set with double tight single back. It could just as easily be a Trey set with Shiancoe on the line but split out. Now you have a large athlete in space against a linebacker. Or it forces the Defense to sub an extra DB and then you're cooking with gas on the ground.

Also, something that I think is not used enough - reset the pocket. You can manipulate the defense's set by having a TE or a tight slot, and then you can roll to the softer side away from where the D likes to send their pressure. Favre is going to throw on the move anyway, might as well design it.
1. Beat 1 on 1's that's what you're paid for.
2. Manipulate personnel groupings to get matchups you like (shiancoe)
3. Move the pocket
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Old 11-09-2010, 10:32 PM    (permalink
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i have a question about zone D coverages. This is coming from a guy who never played football in my life (**** you genetics)


It seems like the Ravens are playing tampa 2 zone with the CBs back pedaling. The WR does a curl route and the CB just stands there lets them catch and make a tackle. I figure if he charges the WR on the curl the WR will just break of the route and go deep for a big gain. But the CB gets crucified on various forums because of it.

So can you guys tell me the basic plan for a CB in a zone D (sorry if that explanation doesnt make sense)
Depends on what kind of zone.. In typical zone, for example C 2 zone, like the Bucs ran with Kiffin, it was collision, funnel, and sink was what the Cbs tend to do..

Meaning you want to collision the wr, and funnel him towards the middle where the Lbs are all spot dropping. Then your keeping your eyes in the back for # 2 coming out.

But usually all this stuff is in the DB or secondary section of the defensive playbook. It tells you how the CB should align and what to do after that.

You normally are eyeing the QB, and trying to follow where is will go with the ball. Usually in these types of coverages, the DC relies on the front 4 for pressure, which means the QB has to either throw it away, force a bad pass, or get sacked. That's where the zone then rally and make a play.
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Old 11-13-2010, 09:41 AM    (permalink
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slightly OT: Does anybody know how to find the statistics for current head coaches replay challenge success rate?
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Old 11-13-2010, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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slightly OT: Does anybody know how to find the statistics for current head coaches replay challenge success rate?
Not off the top of my head. I know Coughlin is the active leader at like 47% success.
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Old 11-13-2010, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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Not off the top of my head. I know Coughlin is the active leader at like 47% success.
This fact seems to give every announcer an irony-boner. Which, while amusing, loses it's luster after you realize that the announcers will giggle over it everytime the old man challenges a play.
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Old 11-17-2010, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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is bump and run or playing off the LOS does that depend on the coaches scheme or the CBs decision? Me and my friend are getting into a debate on it now.
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Old 11-17-2010, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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is bump and run or playing off the LOS does that depend on the coaches scheme or the CBs decision? Me and my friend are getting into a debate on it now.
both.

depends on how much lieniency the coach gives him.


Usually its based on scheme, but some coaches allow you to move closer or play off depending on how much he trusts you and how strict he is with his schemes.
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Old 11-17-2010, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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Thanks me and my friend got in a big debate about that when we were talking about how terrible the Ravens pass D has looked recently.
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